Quoting myself due to ego and laziness:
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
For CD I'd change the defense buff. Currently it provides 1.75% defense to all plus an additional 1.75% defense to all which is suppressed in combat (and therefore can be pretty much ignored). I favor changing this to a +5% buff to Ranged Defense only. This would provide a more noticeable defense buff (and one worth enhancing) while still keeping it low enough to avoid being game breaking (for comparison the S/L defense shields in epics provide 10.5% but have the opportunity cost of not being able to take a S/L resistance shield). Having it be ranged only reinforces the idea of Devices as secondary designed to keep foes at range through area denial (i.e. Caltrops, Trip Mine and the lack of melee attacks) while also preventing it from stacking with Frozen Armor or Scorpion Shield.
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I agree with those numbers. I didn't put numbers into my original post because I wasn't in-game to see what they were; so I just said what needs to be done. Thank you for your numbers and ideas. I know you, Seebs and Nethergoat are discussing Seeb's /Devices Guide. 5% Cloaked and 2.5% Revealed would be a good start to bringing this power up to useful.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Quoting myself due to ego and laziness:
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Did you care for any of the other suggestions? I am very particular about the Defiance Bonus while Toggled. Maybe 1.25% Constant? More/Less? At all? Why?
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
While I agree Cloaking Device could use some tweaking your premise is a bit faulty.
While inherent Swift and Hurdle will negate the movement debuff from Stealth, since Cloaking Device has no movement penalty your movement speed will still be faster than someone using Stealth.
So, 3 threads that all have to do with a power in devices. Maybe you can get a mod to move them together. That is how they belong. Also, the damage from putting a targeted aoe set in caltrops wouldn't raise the damage enough to even worry about it.
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Actually I advocate 5% both cloaked and revealed.|
Originally Posted by redtornado
I agree with those numbers. I didn't put numbers into my original post because I wasn't in-game to see what they were; so I just said what needs to be done. Thank you for your numbers and ideas. I know you, Seebs and Nethergoat are discussing Seeb's /Devices Guide. 5% Cloaked and 2.5% Revealed would be a good start to bringing this power up to useful.
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| Did you care for any of the other suggestions? I am very particular about the Defiance Bonus while Toggled. Maybe 1.25% Constant? More/Less? At all? Why? |
50ft range is standard for all Blaster single target immobilizes despite that fact that the controller equivilents have 80ft range. Personally I think it's fine. I wouldn't object to 80ft range for all of them mind you but I think the shorter range is useful for balance. The shorter range encourages blasters to use them as immobilizes rather than attacks (obviously this is aimed at the ones from other sets).
No argument from me regarding slow IO sets.
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This is true. But, Cloaking Device is from a Secondary Power Set, as such, it should offer a significant utility over a Pool Power. With utility competition from a Stealth IO, combined with the encroachment from the Concealment Pool due to Inherent Fitness erasing the movement penalty from Stealth, Cloaking Device is LONG over-due for an improvement.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
While I agree Cloaking Device could use some tweaking your premise is a bit faulty.
While inherent Swift and Hurdle will negate the movement debuff from Stealth, since Cloaking Device has no movement penalty your movement speed will still be faster than someone using Stealth. |
It's not just about improving Cloaking Device(which it has always needed), but, also about improving /Devices as a whole. The set is looked down upon and ridiculed. It does not offer the same degree of support for Blaster Primaries that other Secondary Sets offer. These suggested improvements could go a long way to balancing /Devices with other Blaster Secondaries and improve perception of /Devices as a viable Secondary, both for teaming and puplicly.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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Sorry, I misread your numbers then. I would like it if Cloaking Device offered the same defense Cloaked and Revealed, as well. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Actually I advocate 5% both cloaked and revealed.
No I don't. I tend to agree with adding a permanent damage bonus to Devices but I think a better option is to decrease the to hit bonus from targeting drone and add a damage bonus there. Adding it to CD doesn't make much sense thematically and I think it would make the power to mandatory. TD is supposed to replace Build Up so adding a damage bonus there makes more sense. |
My suggestion for a Constant Defiance Bonus is that many Blaster Secondaries offer a Defiance Bonus for multiple powers. Cloaking Device could be an interesting power to take if it offered a unique, constant bonus to defiance.
I have another suggestion then:
Cloaking Device should allow a Stealth Strike, like the PPD Ghosts have. Yes?
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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Ok then, but, why does the Master Mind's Web Grenade have a 70ft. range? Like powers should have like abilities. The 50ft. range for Immobilizations is not very good in practice. It should be improved. Immobilizing the target directly just as it gets directly in your face is counter-intuitive. ALSO, most other blaster Immoblization Powers do DAMAGE to your target. Web Grenade does not cause damage. This is another reason why the /Devices Secondary Power Set is frowned upon publicly. The lack of damage, alone, is enough impetus to allow the power to have an improved range. Again, I warn YOU(and you know who you are) that normalizing to 50ft. is bad for your Karma...O.O-->Bad Karma looking right at you...
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
50ft range is standard for all Blaster single target immobilizes despite that fact that the controller equivilents have 80ft range. Personally I think it's fine. I wouldn't object to 80ft range for all of them mind you but I think the shorter range is useful for balance. The shorter range encourages blasters to use them as immobilizes rather than attacks (obviously this is aimed at the ones from other sets).
No argument from me regarding slow IO sets. |
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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Each power in the /Devices deserves it's own discussion thread. Also, this segmenting prevents the TL;DR wall of text from occurring. I want my suggestions to be discussed, not ignored. It is well beyond time that, improvements, to each power in /Devices, be discussed and hopefully, Devs Willing, be made. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
So, 3 threads that all have to do with a power in devices. Maybe you can get a mod to move them together. That is how they belong. Also, the damage from putting a targeted aoe set in caltrops wouldn't raise the damage enough to even worry about it.
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And providing access to additional IO Sets can help the power be more useful for Builds. If the IO Set does not make Caltrops Over-Powered, then, it should not have been removed. The removal of capability is detrimental to creativity and utility.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
I like it how it is.
And shouldn't you just make a thread about upgrading the devices set as a whole as opposed to making individual threads for each power?
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No. Each power does not deserve it's own thread. They are powers from the same set. The last time this was tried, all the threads were condensed.
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Originally Posted by redtornado
Each power in the /Devices deserves it's own discussion thread. Also, this segmenting prevents the TL;DR wall of text from occurring. I want my suggestions to be discussed, not ignored. It is well beyond time that, improvements, to each power in /Devices, be discussed and hopefully, Devs Willing, be made.
And providing access to additional IO Sets can help the power be more useful for Builds. If the IO Set does not make Caltrops Over-Powered, then, it should not have been removed. The removal of capability is detrimental to creativity and utility. |
Castle actually tried to implement a Stealth Strike to Cloaking Device a while back but it never worked the way it should have and the idea was scrapped.
About the same time I think TD had the bonus damage to Assault Rifle>Sniper Shot added to it.
Why that bonus was never given to the other powers is beyond me, but I think that was before the Defiance changes.
As for Cloaking Device offering benefits over Stealth, it's benefit is no movement penalty. I also think it has a portion of unsuppressed stealth, and IIRC it's about the same as the stealth powers in the Energy and Dark defense sets.
Please ask a mod to condense these threads before you get smacked for this.
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Each power deserves it's own discussion. And I did not want to create an unreadable wall of text which would subsequently be ignored due to TL;DR-Syndrome.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I like it how it is.
And shouldn't you just make a thread about upgrading the devices set as a whole as opposed to making individual threads for each power? |
Also, taken individually, there may be a better chance for improvement on a per-power basis than stating, /Devices needs some love. Because, /Devices need some love, and at this point, even individual love is an improvement over NO LOVE.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
Do us all a favor and go read the forum rules. All you have to do is space out each power and what you would like to see done to it. There is absolutely NO reason to make a thread about each power.
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Is there some kind of unwritten limit as to how many suggestions a player/account can make? I am making suggestions. Each one I have thought of over time, but Seebs ' desire to make a /Devices Guide has encouraged me to finally post my ideas. After five years I have finally found something I want to say. I have suggestions I would like discussion of and perhaps action for. I don't belive that my suggestions or the way I am proposing my suggestions could be offensive nor deleterious to this thread, nor is that my intended affect.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
Please ask a mod to condense these threads before you get smacked for this.
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I have always liked /Devices. I would like to see it improved, either individually or as a whole. Breaking down the discussion of /Devices powers into individual components allows for concise judgements on the merits of each suggestion for each power, keeping it simple and readable allows for greater focus.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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Honestly it doesn't. All it means is that people have to jump from thread to thread to see how the powers would mesh together. This is why you NEED to post everything in one big thread.
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Originally Posted by redtornado
Is there some kind of unwritten limit as to how many suggestions a player/account can make? I am making suggestions. Each one I have thought of over time, but Seebs ' desire to make a /Devices Guide has encouraged me to finally post my ideas. After five years I have finally found something I want to say. I have suggestions I would like discussion of and perhaps action for. I don't belive that my suggestions or the way I am proposing my suggestions could be offensive nor deleterious to this thread, nor is that my intended affect.
I have always liked /Devices. I would like to see it improved, either individually or as a whole. Breaking down the discussion of /Devices powers into individual components allows for concise judgements on the merits of each suggestion for each power, keeping it simple and readable allows for greater focus. |
Not to mention you're pissing off your target audience. Spamming up the suggestions forum with your ideas is not the way to encourage productive discussion, it just makes everyone think you're an egomaniac who thinks his threads should have sole purview over the forum.
Condense the threads. You're not a special snowflake who needs the spotlight on your one powerset revamp by spreading it over 9 separate threads.
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
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I stopped reading here. I've never met anyone who disliked myself or a teammate using Trip Mine, and I've never disliked someone else using it. You may be confusing the exceptionally useful power "Trip Mine" with the trash "Time Bomb".
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Originally Posted by redtornado
Trip Mines, despite public dislike for their use
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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"Math is hard" is not a reason to change things. The ToHit buff on Targetting Drone is already a nice, clean scale 1.85; the "hard math" is due to the Blaster's 0.075 Melee_Buff_Tohit modifier. (Note that 0.875 is simply 7/8, not that hard.)|
Originally Posted by redtornado
B - It should have the To Hit Bonus increased to a nice even 15%(math is hard).
C - It should have the Endurance Cost lowered to .25(again math is hard). |
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Originally Posted by redtornado
D - It should provide a Mez Resist(not protection), say 5%.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Am I the only person who thinks the thread title should have read "Dargetting Trone"?
You've wanted more control and now you have it.
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The gun works perfectly fine at any distance within its range, why does it need a medium-range attack?|
Originally Posted by redtornado
Add a flame thrower power to the gun drone! It needs defensive capabilities in melee. AND with the current(and apparantly un-fixable) bug which causes pets with no melee capacity whatsoever to charge into melee, it really needs this.
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Adding a flamethrower does not give the Gun Drone "defensive capabilities in melee".
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Originally Posted by DMystic
While I agree Cloaking Device could use some tweaking your premise is a bit faulty.
While inherent Swift and Hurdle will negate the movement debuff from Stealth, since Cloaking Device has no movement penalty your movement speed will still be faster than someone using Stealth. |
What is the benefit of taking Stealth over Cloaking Device? Only as a path to get Invisibility or Phase Shift, and in either case it wouldn't matter what CD has, the player isn't after Stealth itself anyway.
And, in addition to the speed penalty Stealth has over CD, taking Stealth locks you into the Stealth power pool, while taking CD keeps that pool open. Which may be important if you've got 3-4 extra power selections to make.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Caltrops
/Device Caltrops is a good power, but it could use a retro-grade upgrade.
Master Mind Caltrops had the ability to take Targetted AoE Invention Origin Enhancement Sets before it was, horrifically and INEXPLICABLY removed.
This power should be normalized(for all iterations) to take Targetted AoE Invention Origin Enhancement Sets. Return the ability. And by the way, please, STOP taking the IO Set Capabilities of powers away! It is becoming intensely annoying(if not already).
Web Grenade
Blaster /Devices Web Grenade is a nice power but it REQUIRES improvement.
Improvements:
A - This power NEEDS to have an 80ft. Range. !!!!!! Seriously !!!!!!
How often do you throw the grenade only to have the effect take place ONLY when
the target is in your face, due to activation time vs. run speed? This power should be
normalized accross each instance of it in the game. The Master Mind's Web Grenade
has a 70ft. Range. /Devices' Web Grenade is only 50ft.?!? The ranges for other types
of hand grenades are almost entirely 80ft.! Why the difference? Normalize to 80ft. or
70ft. if you have to. Normalizing to 50ft. will result in bad karma for you...just sayin'.
B - This power should take Slow Movement Invention Origin Set Enhancements.
The power has a Slow Movement Component it should take Slow Movement Sets.
Cloaking device
Cloaking Device has always been scoffed at by others, but now with the Steath IO's, AND more importantly the Inherent Fitness, Cloaking Device is slipping FURTHER into "What's the point" territory. How does Inherent Fitness affect Cloaking Device? Inherent Fitness provides SWIFT and Hurdle, these two powers will negate the movement penalty from Pool Power STEALTH. Cloaking Device's draw was that it would provide a STEALTH equivalent power with out the movement speed drawback.
Cloaking Device needs an upgrade in utility:
A - It should provide a significantly increased defense bonus when Cloaked and Revealed.
B - It should provide a CONSTANT Defiance Bonus while Toggled(this is a must).
C - It should provide a Mez Resistance(not Protection) bonus while Toggled.
D - Lower the Endurance cost of the Toggle.
E - It should provide the ability to Stealth Strike, like the PPD Ghosts have.
F - Any combination of the above.
G - ALL OF THE ABOVE. Squee-worthy!!!
Edited: After some more thought, I remembered another ability that Cloaking Device should offer. That being, Stealth Strike.
Targeting Drone
Targetting Drone has been demonized because it takes the place of Build Up in the Blaster Secondaries. This fact alone hurts the utility and public perception of /Devices. Targetting Drone requires improvements in order to be balanced with the damage and/or utility of other powers, Blaster or otherwise.
Targetting Drone Upgrades:
A - It should provide a Constant Defiance Bonus while Toggled, 5% or so.
B - It should have the To Hit Bonus increased to a nice even 15%(math is hard).
C - It should have the Endurance Cost lowered to .25(again math is hard).
D - It should provide a Mez Resist(not protection), say 5%.
E - A combination of all of the above(so long as you use whole numbers > current ones).
Trip Mines
Trip Mines, despite public dislike for their use and the Secondary Blaster Power Set they come from, /Devices, is a pretty nice power. But, Trip Mines could use a bit of a tweaking.
Trip Mine Upgrades:
A - Lower the Activation time. One of the biggest complaints is how long it takes to set a trip mine up. Use whole numbers < current activation times.
B - Allow Targetted AoE Invention Origin Set Enhancements to be used, in addition to the other allowed IO Sets. This is a Character Build suggestion. If there is no reason not to allow these IO Sets, then, they should be allowed.
Gun Drone
Gun Drone has come a long way from it's origins, but, it needs to go further.
Gun Drone Upgrades:
A - Add a flame thrower power to the gun drone! It needs defensive capabilities in melee. AND with the current(and apparantly un-fixable) bug which causes pets with no melee capacity whatsoever to charge into melee, it really needs this. Also, yes, please do, include this change to the Malta Gun Drones.
B - Lower Activation times.
C - Lower interrupt times.
D - If B and/or C are ill-advised---Increase Gun Drones' life to 2 minutes, please.
E - Any combination of the above(which uses whole numbers > current numbers).
F - All of the above!
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin