Shutting off Patrol XP

I understand what your saying, I just never gave it any thought. I assumed that toggling XP off affected everything. That assumption was why I couldn't understand why the OP wnated another toggle. It seemed like we'd be asking to duplicate something that already existed.

Personally I rarely use the XP toggle. I do have a couple of characters whose concept is that they are defenders of a particular zone so I turned off XP once they were high enough to fight in that zone. Kind of like the Daredevil movie where he patrols Hell's Kitchen. But I never bothered to check Patrol XP once I turned off XP on those alts.

I think my response can be best summed up by the following test:

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

No change to the amount of Patrol xp at this point, but I did not log out for a continuous amount of time. I checked in on the character at 1/2 hour, 1 hour, 5 hour, 20 hour and now 30 hour marks. Well over 24 hours offline, but not continuous.

Not every option is a useful option to have. Ever played Fighter Maker? It's a fighting game, but the core concept is that you can design your own fighter. It's optional, of course: you can just fight with the pre-made characters. But the game is Fighter Maker, why not make a fighter?

So you design your fighter's appearance. Then you realize that you're tasked with designing your fighter's moveset. Including the animations for those moves. With a PS2 controller. GLHF.

I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm pointing out the problem with your assumption that more options are always better.

By that argument, Patrol XP is not a reward for doing nothing. If you never gain experience (by killing a level-appropriate enemy, completing a mission, or walking over an exploration badge), Patrol XP sits there, looking lonely. You must accomplish something in order to be rewarded with the bonus experience which has only until then been earmarked for you.

From another angle, Patrol XP is "normal" XP. After playing "too long", as determined by how long you haven't been playing, you are penalized 33% of your normal XP, to encourage you to do other things with your time than to sit and play games all day.

Agreed, and I'm sure that there are plenty of options that most players never use. I could list a few dozen options that I've never once changed from the defaults. Nevertheless, those options exist either because players requested them or because the devs thought they would be nice to have. "No Patrol XP" is simply an option I'm requesting...because for me, it would be nice to have.

And I know it's bad form to say things like this, but how hard is it to code, "Upon character logon, check the 'No Patrol XP' flag, and if it's set to 'Yes', set Patrol XP = 0"? Obviously there's some logic already going on upon character logon, or else how would our toggles be autostarted, day job badges be awarded, etc? The only thing I'm not sure of is whether Patrol XP clears debt while the character is offline or just when the character logs on, but if all I could get out of a "No Patrol XP" option was to switch off the XP acceleration function and not the XP debt clearance function, I'd be okay with that -- the idea that the character, ashamed of his poor performance, has been training extra hard offline so as to bring his skills back up to par makes sense to me.

Nice try, but the earmark itself was earned through inactivity. (I'd love to see a sandwich shop say, "Don't buy anything from us for 6 months, and we'll give you a coupon to buy-one-get-one-free!" That just doesn't happen.)

Which is part of the reason I dislike Patrol XP so much. It actually encourages players not to play their characters. I've actually had moments when I realized, "Hmph. All my Patrol XP is gone. Well, this sucks. Might as well go watch TV." To be rewarded for not playing is almost the same as being penalized for playing "too long." What game in its right mind does that? It isn't in CoH's best interests that you should have a life!

Not quite. The goal is to encourage players to play *multiple* characters. This game encourages as many alternate characters as possible. So when one runs out of Patrol Exp, it's time to log it off and switch to another. If you insist on playing the same character all the time, then the game will let you. But there's an XP penalty.

Despite all of the naysayers here, I'm with you, 'Scrapper. When I first saw Patrol XP, the first thing I immediately looked for was how to turn it off. The way I see it, the main enjoyment of this game is the journey to level 50, not just achieving it. Because I have several characters that I like to play, I find that I go weeks playing with XP turned off, just so I don't end up leveling everybody out of the zones I like to play in.

To everybody else; the REASON that it would be nice to turn off Patrol XP without turning off Earning XP, is because there is a satisfaction in seeing one's progress based on some established "norm" or benchmark. Patrol XP has clearly taken a great big **** on the "norm" since unchecked, it will cause one to outlevel half or more of the content in a particular level range before it can be done. The upshot of this is that if i want to complete a story arc, but not all in one night, I will end up fighting mobs 2 and 3 levels BELOW me, that were conning even at the beginning of the story arc. While there are certainly workarounds to this, there should never HAVE TO be workarounds.

There was also the fact that at the time that Patrol XP came around, CoH/CoV had no endgame to speak of. Once you hit level 50, that was pretty much it; no special content for characters at the level cap, so why the bum's rush to 50? Leveling too fast in this game, for me - and I'd wager for a lot of players - makes it definitively LESS fun, and who wants to make their game LESS fun?

So, yes, if XP can be turned off and on, and Patrol XP can be calculated on login, how $^*(&% hard can it be to make a Patrol XP toggle for those who would like to ENJOY the game instead of rushing to 50? Otherwise, one has to do accounting work to try to match "normal" XP gain, or one has to spend 15-20 minutes getting defeated each login to wipe out the patrol XP.

Just a damn toggle is all we ask.

So, NewScrapper, I hear you and I feel your pain 100%. For all the naysayers and detractors, y'all can bite me.

-Reverend Spith

Sneaky devils!!!

But seriously, why should the devs care about my play style so long as I'm playing? I prefer to stick with one character for as long as possible...mainly because once I switch over to a new character, I tend to give up on the old character. To this day I don't have a level 50 -- level 45 is the highest I've ever made it.

Sadly, right now I've got a level 1 Tanker sitting in the CoH tutorial waiting for Issue 19 to come out so I can reap the benefits of the new Inherent Fitness Pool, so he's racking up Patrol XP as we speak. What I'll probably do is delete the poor guy and recreate him in the tutorial once Issue 19 hits so that his Patrol XP will be at 0. Then I'll play him up to 50 as it suits me, and I'll see just how much influence Patrol XP has on his progression. Who knows -- maybe what's bugging me is the fact that I've got so many characters who have been logged off for hundreds of days, so whenever I log back into one of them, I spend the first week zooming through levels and then...blah, normal XP rate. I'd rather not have the acceleration at all.

And the thought that my character is out on patrol fighting crime without me irritates me, too -- I'm supposed to feel important with all this superheroing, right? Not like an add-on. My character is supposed to be ME. He's not supposed to be an independent entity who's out there fighting crime all on his lonesome and only needs me to come along so he can level up. I don't mind the Day Job concept because I don't really want to be around while my character practices medicine or reads books in the library, but I do want to be there when my character is fighting crime! Otherwise I'm just a tagalong, not a hero -- it's almost like my own hero is inviting me to join him on radio missions so he can farm XP...sheesh....

Finally, someone who understands!

So is earning XP, but they gave us an option to shut that off.

QFT:

Back to you:

Enhancement drops, recipe drops, influence drops, and merit drops all have one thing in common -- you have ways to utterly ignore them. Don't want the enhancement or recipe? Delete it. Don't want the influence or merits? Don't spend them. But Patrol XP is different. You can turn off XP earning altogether, but the moment you turn XP earning back on, there's Patrol XP fudging your XP earning rate again. So basically what I'd like is either a toggle to shut off earning patrol XP (just like we have a toggle to shut off earning XP altogether), or a way to click a button and clear patrol XP after we've earned it (just like we have click paths to delete enhancements, inspirations, recipes, salvage, etc.).

Give me a break. CoH went 13 issues before implementing Patrol XP, if I recall correctly. It isn't Patrol XP that keeps casual players playing the game. And if it is, it certainly shouldn't be -- the game is what should be keeping casual players playing, not the reward you get for not playing it.

I would agree with this, and I don't have a problem with the devs coming along and establishing, like you say, a new "norm". But Patrol XP isn't a norm or a smoothing but rather a situational forced acceleration of XP earning that some players like myself simply do not want. Like I've said before, it's a handout, and I don't want a handout. I want to earn the XP and feel like when I get to 50, I've put in the time and earned my way to the top. For everyone else who's already got a 50 and doesn't have that need for personal satisfaction, they can leave Patrol XP enabled.

--Mike

Obviously I don't know the actual motivations or reasons. But in general, the reason for that would be to avoid burnout. In many MMO's, the goal is to play to the level cap as fast as possible and then join the "real game". If you try that here, most people will hit lvl 50, get bored, and quit. So the goal is to encourage people to stop and roll more alts while their first are still leveling, rather than playing one at a time to 50. IE, they want to you switch frequently. And it is just that, an encouragement, rather than a hard rule. Something like "You can't level past 40 unless you have two other alts between 10 and 20" would be a hard-set rule and would be rather unpopular.
Up until I19, they generally *did* want you to give up on your old characters once you hit 50. The next couple issues are changing all of that, so much of this advice will likely fly out the window shortly.

I would feel much better about this "encouragement" if there were a way to turn it off. I mean, seriously, it's not like I didn't see Patrol XP at first and think, "OOO WOW THIS ROXXORS!" but now that I've actually had time to evaluate it, I seriously don't like it, and I'd like a way to shut it off because I find it discouraging rather than encouraging. I resent being rewarded for not playing. It's as simple as that. And if I resent the game for giving me unearned rewards, then I'm going to be less inclined to play it, and so I'll get more unearned rewards, which will make me more resentful, and the resulting death spiral will "encourage" me to cancel my subscription.

I always tend to log out in day job areas, and I always get Patrol XP.

I would rather the devs implement a toggle so as not to nerf other players who want both -- and likewise the toggle shouldn't impact credit toward Day Jobs!

And I see that you still haven't made any posts in the Suggestions and Ideas area on this subject.

This is the Player Questions area. This tells me that you are less interested in having the suggestion made to the developers and more interested in making a pointless grandstand to annoy others that have no control over what gets done.

You asked if there was an option to turn it off. There is: Turn off ALL XP or allow your character to get defeated enough to burn off the Patrol XP.

Continuing to argue in this section is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

They are not. I can't toggle Hide on a stalker, turn the game completely off, then come back to the character being in hide still.

The suggestion is getting even more picky and even more limited use. You have the tools at your disposal, use them.

I really hate the idea that everything has to have RP logic spelled out. You want something to simulate that without the Patrol XP toggle: before you log out, get defeated until you have a full ring of debt. When you come back to the character the debt will likely be gone and you will likely not have Patrol XP. Problem solved.

Funny, I get hair cut coupons that say "we haven't seen you in a while, so use this coupon to get half price on your next visit."

While I feel the same way about the day job badges, that bridge has been past for about two years now.

Actually, it is. It means that players use less bandwidth and server resources. It also means that players will not get bored as easy. It also rewards the players that don't have a lot of time to play the game.

Get defeated to clear out Patrol XP. Problem solved.

Turn off XP if you don't want to outlevel content. Make a level pact with another character that doesn't get used.

20 minutes getting defeated? Wow, that is taking you far longer than it should.

Well, you just made me even less inclined to want to help you.

That is your problem, not the game's problem. Again, you are complaining about being given a gift. You are coming across as ungrateful and resenting that gift. The developers have given you several ways to fix the issue, the players here have given you other ways. Use the tools you have or head to the suggestions section and try to make your case there.

At this point I usually suggest that players turn off the game and take part of that wonderful thing called "Real Life". You are not your character.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

That's because we're having a conversation. If you don't want to be bothered by our conversation, there's a neat little toggle called "Unsubscribe." (Isn't it nice to have options?) As for me, I prefer to get the current conversation over and done with before moving on to the S-and-I area, because I've heard some interesting points raised here, so before I make a suggestion, I want to make sure I've heard all the views that people care to post here so that I can make a more informed suggestion.

Forcing me to go out of my way to kill my character is not a satisfactory workaround. If I log off in Atlas in front of my next mission, then when I log back on I don't want to have to first travel to Founder's Falls to burn off Patrol XP. That's a waste of my time. (And what fun is it to roleplay Kenny from South Park every time you log on?)

My bad. I'm thinking of the Ctrl-click that causes a power to reactivate once it has recharged (e.g., Hasten). Apparently that setting does get saved somewhere, because I've never had to re-Ctrl-click Hasten after logging off and on.

Or the devs could provide a toggle that lets us shut off Patrol XP. A player shouldn't have to jump through ridiculous hoops to accomplish what a simple new toggle or button will accomplish. Basically, Patrol XP is a scenario in which you're telling me, "Why should the devs have to provide you with a click path to delete enhancements you don't want? You can already give them to another player, or sell them on the market, or put them in your dual build you don't use, or put them in a slot you're going to put another enhancement in so it gets wiped out, or respec it away, etc." Yes, you can do any or all of those things, but you shouldn't have to.

That is exactly right. I have been given a gift that negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game, and I do resent that.

I realize you are concerned that any option that is trivial to you that, heaven forbid, the devs actually choose to work on runs a real chance of taking time away from their working on things you want to see put in the game, but be reasonable -- the devs know how to prioritize, and if there are bigger priorities, they will address those bigger priorities first. Heaven knows I could have cared less about color customization on powers, but I never -- not once -- posted that it shouldn't happen just because there were other things I wanted to see done in the game. The game is not all about me -- and it's not all about you, either. All I'm doing is saying, "This is what I want to see in the game." If you don't agree that what I want should be in the game, then argue it based on the merit of the idea itself, not based on whether it's something you would never use or that it would take time away from something you want the devs to work on. Because who knows? One day they might actually provide a "No Patrol XP" toggle, and you'll be using it and thinking, "Man, this is so easy! Why did I ever argue over this!"

It's ridiculous compared to "Set the 'No Patrol XP' toggle to Enabled and never worry about it again."

Unsubscribe? I don't have this thread on subscription. I have the section subscribed to, but not this thread.

Or just ignore the extra XP. It isn't hurting anything. It is beginning to sound like you don't want to get to level 50 under any circumstances.

That is something completely unrelated to what you are asking for.

I would hazard a guess that far less than 1% of players would actually use the toggle you have suggested. I can say that I've not heard of anyone complaining about the bonus XP in the last couple of years since it was introduced. Given the turn off XP option was enabled at the same time, I think you've lost this battle long before you suggested it.

The difference is that there was a significant portion of the player base that wanted color customization. There likely was a large amount of subscription cancellation surveys that cited the lack of customization as a reason for quitting.

That is my problem, I don't think there is any merit in having a turn off patrol xp option. From what I can see, you think the merits of the suggestion is that you can level at a poorly defined "normal" levelling rate.

The "normal" levelling rate includes several XP bumps over the years, XP smoothing, and Patrol XP. I consider Patrol XP a part of the normal levelling rate. So players can either turn off XP totally or accept the normal levelling rate that includes Patrol XP.

Actually I can safely say that I would never use it, even if it were made. Just like the Party Pack.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Wow, I'm starting to think you are trolling, because this really isn't brain surgery: I want to get to level 50 under my own steam, without artificial accelerants. I want to know that when the bell goes "DING-DING-DING! CONGRATS YOU'RE LEVEL 50!" that I got there by my own efforts and not because I got a boost for being lazy about playing my character. I want to be rewarded for my diligence, not my sloth. Is that so hard to understand?

You may be right. I'm just saying that I want such a toggle to exist because its current state of non-existence makes puppies cry. I'm not saying the devs will agree with me, nor am I arguing that they should put this mod at the top of their list and ignore more important issues like whether you can finally have the argyle socks you've always wanted. This is just something I'd like to see in the game. Why you have to take a dump all over it is beyond me. It's like you have nothing better to do than stump for your argyle socks.

Then you would be among the 99% who never use it. I don't see the merit in shoulder-kitties and will likely never have a shoulder-kitty, but I respect your desire for shoulder-kitties and would never argue that characters' shoulders should be kitty-free.

"Poorly defined?" Here you go: "absent any XP acceleration bonus granted by Patrol XP." (I refer to "XP acceleration bonus" specifically because I'd be okay with the XP debt-cancelling function of Patrol XP if for some reason that function couldn't be shut off.)

And I respect your consideration, and I would therefore request that the toggle that shuts off Patrol XP would default to "Patrol XP Enabled" so as not to trouble your gameplay in the slightest.

Wow...you and I do agree on something...wow....

I think it is because I've done it that way. It isn't all that special. It took 552 hours over 6 months to do. I'm now at 8 level 50s over the last (almost) 6 years. This is with 2 years of the XP accelerating. In my experience I've hardly noticed the Patrol XP. It also caps at one ring (10 bars) at a time.

Isn't that like saying you want speed boost's recharge bonus but without +runspeed?

Should we also return to the XP reward tables from before XP smoothing? They are both developer bonuses to speed up levelling. It is this point that I'm really confused about. You seem to want to take away one type of XP growth, but only partially, yet leave the other XP bonuses intact. To me that is contradictory.

That is happening to a lot of people lately. It shocks them too.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters