Union, New Open RP OOC Discussion

Actually, the reason I wouldn't be interested is that we've been there and done that. Not actually the corrutption angle, but the experimenting on children. Been there, done that, better, years ago.

The corruption plotline simply doesn't interest. It's hard to see it going anywhere worth bothering with, and that's without factoring in that I don't like forum RP much.

I'd suggest making this a closed RP. Get your list of actors (assuming there's someone willing), create your sub-environment where this can happen, work from there.

Also, don't use a game to work out your issues with corrupt politicians. It won't work. I'm assuming you have said issues due to your assertion that this kind of plotline can and does happen IRL. Best not to bring that stuff into a game.

I'm with Birdy - OP seems to have some sort of political agenda by the statement that he (the OP) "knows" that this sort of political chicanery can and does happen in real life.

A few factors that I feel are worth pointing out, though:

An insane number of proposed bills pass through every country's government system every year. A relatively small proportion of them result in legislation being passed in the original form. There is almost always some give and take.

Now, I'm not going to suggest that political corruption doesn't exist, since I believe it does. But there is something important that the OP seems to have missed out of the proposed plotline. It requires a little bit of background, so bear with me.

We are abundantly aware that hot-button topics (such as the murder of large numbers of children, to cite a recent example, but there are plenty of others) cause OOC strife in the Unionverse.

(See, it was short background.)

As I see it, the OP has entered into one of those hot-button topics, but has elected to avoid answering a vital question (among others, and for reasons I'm not quite sure of): Is it the OP's intention for this proposed legislation to actually become law?

Other questions that spring immediately to mind are that if an organisation (such a proposal will not have originated in the US government) intends to undertake experimentation without permission, why would they not just go ahead and do it, rather than spending all the money on bribing politicians? And if it was the US government that decided to make it happen, why would they even bother passing it through the legal system? They could just quietly start an experiment without anyone being any the wiser.

Now comes the real question, because this is the thing that will make or break this plot as an idea:

Is it actually a proposal for compulsory medical testing? There's a huge difference between "we will take your child away from you and perform experiments on them whenever we want, you have no right to know what we're doing nor do you have any right to expect your child to be returned" and "if you do not bring your child along to take these tests (we'll let you sit in with them and you can see the results, too), you are breaking the law".

I'm a perfectionist. I have multiple awards in web designing, screenwriting and roleplaying game designing. In all the fields of my interest, I create masterpieces. This is mostly because I do, whatever it is I do, I always do it properly. I do background checks, I research and I perfect whatever I do, before giving it to audience.

Now what I have prepared for RP, is something I have already spent time to research and prepare. I already said several times I am not willing to change and start everything from scratch just becouse one single person desires something completely different than I have prepared. Before I became a full-time web designer, I was one of the screenwriters of a political animation. Believe me I know politics, I know satire and I know how to create interesting plots in world of politics. The tone of this RP does not please everyone, and it is not suppose to. This is not something for everyone.

It is easy to guess that a law like described before would cause mass protests, riots and possibly even armed riots. It might or might not cause rioting. It would not unquestionably lead into rioting. If you have any facts to prove why it would be nonsensical to believe a plot of my RP happened in anywhere in the world, you are free to state those facts now.

Shadowe and Ravenswing have displayed discipline of keen perception. Given suggestions are now aknowledged. I'd like to answer Shadowe's questions but doing so I would spoil much of the RP.

A major problem you'd be facing is that unlike the real world their would be a lot more scrutiny on public officials. While in the real world it might be possible to slip this type of legislation into other laws and so on, it won't really fly in a world where every bit of paper work is likely to be checked over twenty odd times.

I mean not counting the Fifth Column, Council and Circle of thorns trying to slip people into the government, you've got the whole Nemisis automaton thing.

To put it another way if it's so poorly covered up, that radio DJ's can discover it then it would of never gotten so far in the first place, it would of been rumbled by the same checks that prevent the canon groups from taking over from the top.

There seems to be a lot of assumption that people don't read laws before they're put into action. There is a lot of scrutiny on laws, in fact passing a law in America is a rediculously long and painful process. Okay, let's break it down.

If this is a Federal law I just don't see how this bill would get through the House, let alone the Senate and the President himself. Considering a cover up at this level is outright impossible, it's clearly not going to work there. At some point one party is going to realise the other who's proposing the bill is committing career suicide and point it out. It's a legal requirement for a bill to be read out in full when both made and when amended and these are discussed publicly so you can even watch the reading on TV (And there's public groups who do just that, documenting it all). You can get copies of all proposed laws by just asking and again, people will. Hiding in a way to experiment on kids is going to be fairly impossible.

State law, again it's just too big. You can't bribe the whole of the Rhode Islands to pass career killing legislature like this through. There's less checks and oversight that Federal law, but not a lot less. Also State law can't contradict Federal Law. Which this does.

So City Wide, is perhaps the one way it could get through. City level politics can be fairly corrupt, but the problem here is that if someone notices they've got this law on the books there's no way they're going to let them uphold it as it goes against both State and Federal law on children. So making it law is really counter-productive.

This is all forgetting the main point, that since this law is against the constitution (It's a loss of personal freedom, as the child has no one to protect them as thier Guardian and is legally unfit to become a Guardian themselves) it's ALWAYS going to be invalid on a Federal, State or City level unless the Constitution itself is amended and that's an even bigger challenge. So they accomplish nothing by creating this law except making a law that isn't in any way enforceable.

Yes politics is corrupt, but it's not silly. Special interests are where the corruption comes in, but it's still got to follow the same process. There's no short cuts and it's not easy to sneak a law onto the books unless it's something seemingly benign. Allowing the seizure of kids for experimentation is so blatantly 'wrong' that there's just no way you could sneak it on there .

For someone who's researched this thoroughly, you haven't really looked much at how a law is made.

Tell you what; you do your plot and I honestly and truthfully hope it all works out for you and that you have a wonderful time.

To be constructive, ways I could see this plot working.

Change if from kids to military experimentation. It's actually got a veil of secrecy to allow it then and it definitely has happened before.

Or change it to a doctor blowing the whistle on the FDA for letting a flu vaccine go through which is not all they're claiming it to be, it's actually fairly topical right now and a lot more likely to happen as again they've actually done this before by downplaying side effects or covering up the effects of certain meat additives to name a few off the top of my head.

Government Corruption is when they're breaking the law to make money or gain power, not when they're using the laws in place to pass silly laws. That's actually the process working as intended (Bribery aside, but even then, lobbying and campaign donations is a perfectly legal method of bribery.)

You can't force parents to take their kids to be vaccinated from Smallpox in the US, (And stupidly, some people avoid vaccinations as they think they're too dangerous) So it'd be hard and it's still breaking the Constitution.

However I think there's a level of knowledge in roleplay where you're okay to mess with the facts a little as it's getting just too in depth to expect people to know it, so I think about there it'd be reasonable to believe they could pull this off. But the plots already self detonated with the Radio Interview as the government would sort it all out with unusual rapidity to protect themselves from the fallout. Of which there'd be some serious fallout.

Which still leaves room for a plot, but it'd be a "Who the hell was stupid enough to think they'd get away with this?" and "What did happen to those kids/doctor/dj's?" plot.

Which I'd be avoiding as I don't really like plots involving kids. But by now it's a personal issue. Still at this point it's lost it's focus on government corruption and become a simple manhunt, which while fun and a perfectly valid plot, isn't what the OP intended.

^ Perhaps, but all that would be a completely covert, Black Ops type operation with kids being experimented on in secret. I don't have issues with that.

No way would such a thing even be tried in actual laws, because the US public just would not stand for it. They're REALLY particular about lawmaking over there, y'know.