On the nature of ebil and marketeering
By
1VB_FIST,
Posted on: 2010-11-13 21:46 in The Market and Inventions
I will talk to people who disagree with me eagerly and happily, as long as they demonstrate a basic capacity for using logic or analysis of some sort, presenting data, and so on. In most of the CoH forums, this leaves me with a broad variety of people who have different perspectives on gameplay, fun, and so on. I learn a lot.
In the markets forum, it gets me an occasional person who's merely woefully ignorant, and a lot of people who agree with me. I think this is because we are discussing observable and measurable claims, rather than matters of opinion.
As crazy as the debate with Max_Zero has been, I think he's been pretty civil. Same thing with Blue_Centurion over in the other recent epic thread. Saintly? No, but better than some of the regulars. No one should claim that everyone here is open-minded. Some people see stuff they disagree with and shut their brains off.
It's possible (likely?) this thread will do what the one with B_C did - spin around a lot and not really convince anyone participating of anything new. I still think a lot of good information gets posted. If these threads teach anyone reading them something they didn't know, or get them to think about something they never considered before, I think they were worth having.
What people need to learn to do is disagree without pissing on each other personally. That's what gets people bent out of shape, and for some folks creates grudges. Sadly, this is the internet, and wishing for non-pissy, non-bent-out-of-shape people who don't hold grudges is like hoping your driveway will turn into 24 karat gold. 
It'd be sweet, but we shouldn't hold our breath.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I certainly don't think any of the uninformed posters have been flinging around the serious sort of negative nonsense I know I fling around when my dander's up.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
As crazy as the debate with Max_Zero has been, I think he's been pretty civil. Same thing with Blue_Centurion over in the other recent epic thread. Saintly? No, but better than some of the regulars. No one should claim that everyone here is open-minded. Some people see stuff they disagree with and shut their brains off.
It's possible (likely?) this thread will do what the one with B_C did - spin around a lot and not really convince anyone participating of anything new. I still think a lot of good information gets posted. If these threads teach anyone reading them something they didn't know, or get them to think about something they never considered before, I think they were worth having. What people need to learn to do is disagree without pissing on each other personally. That's what gets people bent out of shape, and for some folks creates grudges. Sadly, this is the internet, and wishing for non-pissy, non-bent-out-of-shape people who don't hold grudges is like hoping your driveway will turn into 24 karat gold. It'd be sweet, but we shouldn't hold our breath. |
Its the market forum regulars who aren't civil especially to people that disagree with the view they push.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Those would be wonderful counter examples of the argument going on with Max_Zero if they were examples of what's being discussed.
Buying up the supply and witholding it is not flipping. Flipping is buying stuff and taking everything you buy and selling it at some higher price. |
Why not cut to the chase and just define flipping as buying low and selling high in a manner that does not affect the price ? This is exactly what is being attempted. The problem is you can't flip unless you achieve a momentary corner. The only difference between flipping and cornering is the percentage of time that the corner is maintained.
Quote:
|
Because, of course, no one who disagrees with him could possibly be honest or forthright. It's absolutely impossible that they have conviction born of in-game experience with what they are saying. The above is nothing but your biases, painted broadly across anyone you commonly disagree with - which is just about everyone here. You regularly show an inability to successfully argue your way out of a kleenex, but you try to leave every argument with a post steeped in self-assurance that you definitely "won". So you wander into this conversation armed primarily with a personal axe to grind against the posters who regularly disagree with you and try to convince a newcomer that we're all irrational and/or liars. Frankly, your axe-grinding has come to disgust me, and I'm sick of reading it. I unignored you months ago, and it was clearly a mistake. |
Your best argument is a personal attack ?
I can play that game with much better ammunition.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I should note that we don't know what situations Posi's "crystal ball" were focused on. One of the most basic assumptions in pre-I18 market merger discussions on the forums was that the Influence and Infamy currencies would remain separate. The actual I18 merge completely undercut that assumption by merging both the markets and the currencies. Every (rationally supported) downside prediction for merged markets had its foundation in that separation of currency. Perhaps Posi's did too. |
The market forums really are a example that internet communities are places where people with funny views go not to be challenged by outsiders.
Quote:
They were both relatively restrained in the face of monolithic disdain, which is to their credit.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
As crazy as the debate with Max_Zero has been, I think he's been pretty civil. Same thing with Blue_Centurion over in the other recent epic thread.
|
Quote:
| No, but better than some of the regulars. No one should claim that everyone here is open-minded. |
I don't see the value in entertaining a POV that is patently factually nonsensical. Once around the park is about all I can take. I enjoy helping people who are open to it, I don't have time for the ones who wear their ignorance like a suit of plate mail.
But I do appreciate your seemingly endless patience for people with viewpoints that are diametrically opposed to observable reality. I require that people meet me roughly halfway, while you boldly forge into the dense jungle of their prejudices. Kudos, Uber!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Personally, I'm not civil when someone posts something that is demonstrably false. I will immediately jump down their throat so that a newcomer is not misinformed. (I'm not referring to your post. I'm just saying that I'm well aware of when I will be 'not civil'.)|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Its the market forum regulars who aren't civil especially to people that disagree with the view they push.
|
What most of the "market forum regulars" have in common is that they are well-informed about the market. Imagine that.
Quote:
| Why not cut to the chase and just define flipping as buying low and selling high in a manner that does not affect the price ? This is exactly what is being attempted. The problem is you can't flip unless you achieve a momentary corner. The only difference between flipping and cornering is the percentage of time that the corner is maintained. |
Quote:
| The market forums really are a example that internet communities are places where people with funny views go not to be challenged by outsiders. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Another_Fan is very, very certain he's right about everything. It's one of his strongest character traits. I've never seen him admit any doubt about anything, let alone admit to being wrong.
Why should he? He's got all these people around him to say it for him.
Yeah, never trust anyone who's never wrong.
FWIW, one of the things I value about these forums is that, for the most part, people are willing to not only tell me when I'm wrong, but show me in detail why.
Quote:
And you prove the value of that knowledge with your next paragraph|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Personally, I'm not civil when someone posts something that is demonstrably false. I will immediately jump down their throat so that a newcomer is not misinformed. (I'm not referring to your post. I'm just saying that I'm well aware of when I will be 'not civil'.)
What most of the "market forum regulars" have in common is that they are well-informed about the market. Imagine that. |
Quote:
| Why not cut to the chase and admit you don't grasp flipping? You don't have to corner anything in order to flip. You're just taking advantage of existing volatility. While you CAN corner in your flipping process, it's not at all required. When I flip, I will often have bids out at 20 million and sales at 30+ million - all at the same time. I'll come back a week later and all my sales and bids will be completed. |
If you put the slightest bit of thought into it, its impossible not to see how the process raises prices. Impossible without lying to yourself.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Camper
Another_Fan is very, very certain he's right about everything. It's one of his strongest character traits. I've never seen him admit any doubt about anything, let alone admit to being wrong.
|
Oh and you know, I have never seen you admit to being wrong.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by seebs
Yeah, never trust anyone who's never wrong.
FWIW, one of the things I value about these forums is that, for the most part, people are willing to not only tell me when I'm wrong, but show me in detail why. |
Quote:
I'm wrong all the time, but rarely as wrong as you are about flipping. I could give you the exhaustive list of all the times I was wrong, but it'd get boring. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Oh and you know, I have never seen you admit to being wrong.
|
Anyway, have fun doing whatever it is you do on the Market forum. I don't understand it, but here's hoping it entertains you.
Buying up the supply and witholding it is not flipping. Flipping is buying stuff and taking everything you buy and selling it at some higher price.
Fair= Deprives me of my advantages.
Flipping raises prices = Legitimate reason to restructure the market.
Its an auction not a store = If it were a store I couldn't take money off the suckers.
Our auction system is better than the ones that show you the prices = If they started showing the prices, I couldn't do things like paint the last five prices, and force people to waste time bid creeping.
If you look at your conversation here from this perspective you may see why trying to make headway with these people is pointless.
Frankly, your axe-grinding has come to disgust me, and I'm sick of reading it. I unignored you months ago, and it was clearly a mistake.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA