Is 'realism' being overdone in tv and novels?
By
BafflingBeerMan,
Posted on: 2010-11-13 07:12 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I have to say, I don't think the "realistic" shows are actually any more realistic than anything else on television. They just represent a different world view bias that some people feel is more realistic. Reality usually falls somewhere in between the two extremes but, frankly, reality is boring. The "realistic" shows where corporations all have black ops teams to go out and kill anyone who hurts the corporation's bottom line is exciting. A realistic show where the corporate head wants all salaried employees to work a couple of weekends a year at trade shows in addition to their normal hours with no form of compensation, not even comp time, not so much.
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -- Dinobot
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Personally, I don't think the overall picture of television has changed as drastically in the past, say, 30 years as some of those here would make it out to be.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I wonder how much of this is caused by overly positive TV of the 70s conflicting with the reality of the 70s and how that had an impact on the psyche of creators starting in the mid 80s.
We had the TV world of The Brady Bunch, Good Times, other TV family sit-coms. Dramas where good always defeat evil. The police always caught the bad guy. The PI's always solved the mystery. Tragedy rarely happened. Now conflict it with the reality of recession, the "loss" of Vietnam, the Nixon near impeachment, the oil crisis, Three Mile Island. Escalating divorce rates. Inflation. The real world was nearly the antithesis of the world portrayed on TV and in comics. It only seems natural for all of those real world influences to burst the dam of unreality on TV and in comics. And in cases of extreme repression, the pendulum swung a bit to far the other way. Now everyone is deeply flawed. Not with just one or two problems but the whole list of maladies mentioned in a Psyche 101 textbook. It's swung so far over that we have become cynical to the extreme. We don't believe there are heroes anymore. And if we found one we would dredge through their lives looking for a flaw that could be amplified by mass media to tear them down. Everyone must have an ulterior motive. A hero must be overcompensating for something horrible he did in his past. "So when have you stopped beating your wife?" It's not enough to provide an outline of a character's history to an actor so they can understand the motivation and use it to create a believable but character. No we have to have episode upon episode where their past is brought up instead of providing just a hint of insight every so often. No, if we don't spell it out in 50 foot tall letters what their problems are the audience simply won't get it. So now instead of providing a false but happy world on TV, we get one with characters so flawed that we actually feel good that we aren't as screwed up as them. That our day to day lives feel peachy in comparison. |
TV can be more visually graphic these days, but I don't think that 'NCIS' (2003) is darker than 'Hill Street Blues' (1981), or that 'Hawaii 5-0' (2010) is grittier than 'Miami Vice' (1984).
Same applies to the comedies... I don't see them being any more or less neurotic than before. 'The Office' (2005) vs 'M.A.S.H.' (1972) or 'W.K.R.P. in Cincinnati' (1978)?
Remember that when we had 'Brady Bunch' (1969), we also had 'All in the Family' (1971).
When we had 'Star Trek' (1966), we also had 'The Prisoner' (1967).
Maybe you (plural) are just focusing on the opening up of standards with cable, and the decisions made by, say, HBO/Showtime?
<Shrug>
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Clearly (if there is one) God considers himself "gritty and shocking" because there are quite a few people in the world with dead parents, crippled sons, failed marriages and canines with cancer. Maybe you live in a nice cushy existence, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. But that's beside the point, really.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
There sure is a reason why it exists.
It really has no bearing on my points, but it DOES have a reason to exist. Or was that your rebuttal. "This trope does occur, so obviously the opposite could NEVER have a negative side of it's own." Sorry, if I get invested in a show/book/whatever about a certain character, I wanna see stories about THAT character. Not a season or two of that character and then this other character whose quite similar. "Look, we've killed off the character's parents, ruined his marriage, crippled his son, and given his dog cancer." Know what I hear when I see stuff like that? "Look at us, look at us! Look how gritty and shocking we are! Hold on, there'll be cussin' next!" It's like in the 90's when they were cutting off Aquaman's hand and smearing shadows all over Spiderman's face in a desperate attempt to be taken seriously. |
You're okay with an endless supply of super characters that emerge from explosions without a scratch or scratches that don't have any effect beyond being makeup, I'm not. After a while, a character that can't be injured gets boring because no matter the interesting situation he's found himself in, he'll always escape/beat the bad guy/get the girl and live happily ever after.
Life isn't like that. You never live "happily ever after."
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nor is it as grim as it is portrayed in some of the fairly major theatrical, tv movie and even video game releases. nobody is calling for Pollyanna, but reality is a combination of both happiness and sadness, to play up grimness certainly seems to align with attmepts to target angsty, disaffected(and financially desirable, as advertisers go) young males. dude, i love jay o'barr's crow, but that was because it was a well written and unflinchingly well staged dive into darker subjects, most angsty cynical works dont manage that level of artistry and, much like genuine positive sentimentality, when it fails, it fails badly.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Clearly (if there is one) God considers himself "gritty and shocking" because there are quite a few people in the world with dead parents, crippled sons, failed marriages and canines with cancer. Maybe you live in a nice cushy existence, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. But that's beside the point, really.
You're okay with an endless supply of super characters that emerge from explosions without a scratch or scratches that don't have any effect beyond being makeup, I'm not. After a while, a character that can't be injured gets boring because no matter the interesting situation he's found himself in, he'll always escape/beat the bad guy/get the girl and live happily ever after. Life isn't like that. You never live "happily ever after." |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Clearly (if there is one) God considers himself "gritty and shocking" because there are quite a few people in the world with dead parents, crippled sons, failed marriages and canines with cancer. Maybe you live in a nice cushy existence, but that doesn't mean everyone else does.
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Hooray for completely sidestepping the argument!!
It must be strange living in a world where everyone is either one extreme or the other.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
i suppose my complaint is less realism as cynicism and nihilism, it sells to males 18-29 so it pays the bills, but it is trite. reality has good and bad both, nihilism and cynicism just focus on grimness for the sake of grimness, it is no less unrealistic than sappy sentimentality.
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It's because life is depressing. Life is always depressing. People talk about happiness, but I've found it to be a complete myth.
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Because comedies never get the Best Picture nomination. For that you have to do a movie about a person in an emotionally abusive relationship who finds freedom in Gregorian chant and then commits suicide.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
This is my major gripe with "realism" these days. It's come to mean the same thing as 'cynicism' and 'depressing'. 'Poignant' is another word that seems synonymous with depressing. I'm not sure why good things all the time seem to automatically be more unrealistic than horrible things all the time, but whatever.
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Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
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Originally Posted by Scythus
It's because life is depressing. Life is always depressing. People talk about happiness, but I've found it to be a complete myth.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
Because comedies never get the Best Picture nomination. For that you have to do a movie about a person in an emotionally abusive relationship who finds freedom in Gregorian chant and then commits suicide.
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Prove it isn't.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
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Oh wow. Y'know, I was getting frustrated before, but I take it all back now.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Prove it isn't.
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You are ADORABLE.
And you're an ***.
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Yeah, if that's your attitude towards life, you'll never find happiness.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
It's because life is depressing. Life is always depressing. People talk about happiness, but I've found it to be a complete myth.
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Me? I'm happy. Genuinely smiling happy. Been so for years now. And it's not a case of denial or anything like that. It's a choice. Life can be hard, bad stuff happens to everyone. You'll get no argument from me there. I've had my share of bad luck and depressing events happen to me the last couple of years. But then I ask: Does it help to grouch over it? Bad stuff happens no matter if you're grouchy or happy. I like being happy more, so I choose to be.
I call this outlook "Cynical Optimism" and it's served me well. Nothing gets me down for long. Why should I let it? To me, this is the secret to happiness. Although it's kind of obvious in retrospect. Life can be depressing, if you let it. But if you're cynical enough, you can get to the point where you go "So what?" and harness the cynicism for optimism.
This also means that I find gritty movies/games/books so dreadfully boring. I usually think "Yeah, yeah, I know you have it hard, now let's get to the good parts." And then it just gets even more gritty and depressing. No, I want those silly, overly optimistic works instead. Why? Why not? I choose the entertainment that makes me smile. Smiling is fun, brooding is boring. So, again, I choose to smile.
I probably sound like some kind of deranged Pollyanna, but I am who I am. A cynical optimist. I've found my secret to happiness, and I'll gladly share it with others. In fact, I've been told my smile and outlook is infectious, so... here. Have a free one from me!
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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Man I love Torchwood, but sometimes that show is a little too dark. But it is a great show cant wait till series 4
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Originally Posted by Tired Angel
I have to disagree. I find nothing wrong with adding realistic reactions of an average person when put into extreme situations.
One reason is that there is also plenty of media out there that doesn't do this either at all or to a different extent. And this is me thinking as someone who watches this as entertainment. To take your example of Russell T. Davies. In recent years he has bought back Doctor Who, created a new series Torchwood and re-introduced another character in the Sarah-Jane Adventures. All three programs are based around the same franchise but each approach the idea of realism of the characters reactions in very different ways. On one side you have The Sarah-Jane Adventures. Although this has been created as a kids program me and my partner find the program great fun to watch. The characters have interesting adventures, real life situations are dealt with in a mature yet understandable way but everything does turn out ok in the end. In the middle you have Doctor Who. This program has a mixture of realistic reactions (for example loss, ie the doctor losing his companions) and having fun and thrilling adventures. Not everything is ok at the end, but the spirit of adventure remains. And on the other side you have Torchwood. This was always billed as the dark side of Doctor Who and it does what it says on the tin. It takes ordinary people and put them in extreme distressing situations. As you mention there is Childrem of Earth but there is always the cannibal episode and the deaths of Owen and Toshiko. Nothing ever seems to turn out ok and every character takes away something from each episode to digest about their inner nature. Now each of these approach the idea of realism of human nature in different ways and I find each of them as entertaining as the other. If current media was flooded with just the extreme then, yes, it would be a problem but its not. There are also programs that try to find a balance with extreme realism and the "its ok in the end" approach. My main thoughts here are about the series Glee. It has dealt with some extremely difficult issues with some quite painful reactions (e.g. Kurt coming to terms with his homosexuality and Quinn's pregnancy) in both hard hitting ways (some intense well acted scenes) and in more approachable ways (when they sing). At the same time it also has a sense of fun and humour to the program. Now if I look at this as a trained counsellor (which I am) I find I want to respond to what you say here: I personally think that the characters that are put accross in some of these extreme situations (such as Children of Earch) are quite realistic. You've also got to remember that the point of programs like that is portray the character first and the situation second. When you compare them to media such as Star Wars or Superman the focus is different, these aren't trying to portray the story/situation first and the characters second. In some ways programs like Torchwood has more in relation with Friends than it would to Star Wars/Superman. It may be a weird analogy but looking at the characters in Friends they are, although slightly exagerated, having realistic reactions to more 'general life' situations (e.g. the Ross/Rachel relationship) while Torchwood has realistic reactions to exagerated circumstances. Now I am going to stop there as I am getting slightly lost in my own thought process!! |
Life changes either we adapt or perish...
The victorious army seeks victory first then seeks battle
the defeated army battles first then seeks victory
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Your later description certainly implies that it's denial.
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Originally Posted by McNum
Yeah, if that's your attitude towards life, you'll never find happiness.
Me? I'm happy. Genuinely smiling happy. Been so for years now. And it's not a case of denial |
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I'm aware of the state of the world. I've just grown cynical about cynicism. Cynicism is useful because it lets you see the world for what it is, good or bad. Classically, cynics usually see most bad, because, well, there's a lot of it to find. However, how much of this can be helped by complaining about it or feeling down? Not a whole lot. In fact, a lot of the depressing parts get even more depressing when you're down. But if feeling down solves nothing... then why do it? So, I don't.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Your later description certainly implies that it's denial.
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The world is a terrible unfair and generally unpleasant place. I take it we agree on that? However, I can't do a thing about most of that, and all that's in the past has already happened, so I can't do anything about that either. So I face the future with a smile. Because whatever is there isn't going to get better by frowning at it.
It's not an easy mindset to adopt, I'll admit. You know when a joke is in such bad taste that it becomes funny? You know, crosses the line twice, as it were? It's that with cynicism. It's so cynical that it wraps around and becomes optimism.
I'm not saying to be happy all the time, though, as that also gets boring. Be sad when you need to. Be afraid if something scares you. Be angry when you need to as well. But I, at least, default back to happy when I'm done. Happiness is so much sweeter when you have some annoyances to compare with.
So, no. It's not denial. It's an informed choice. And when the choice is despair against happiness, I'm choosing happiness every single time. Why would I want despair? Sure, there's more than enough reason to, but really, why would I ever choose despair? It never helps. Smiling, on the other hand, just might. And on the off-chance it does, I'll keep smiling. It's the cynical thing to do.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
eh, my take is a bit less generous, cynicism is easy because you never have to make an effort, just mope and moan. finding things in life worth living for, finding hope, that is the tough stuff, you actually have to make an effort, be disappointed at times, show guts, it is so darn hard, and crawling into a ball and moaning about the world is so very easy. used to do that when i was a teenager, in retrospect it was really pathetic, but you grow up and realize you find happiness, it just doesn't fall on you, so you get off your butt and make an effort. cynics hate people who found happiness, hope, and purpose though, because it just reminds them how pathetic they are.
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I might not have reached joy yet, I still have a lot of things I want to do to hit that. But I've got hope in spades. And hope is something I cannot allow myself to lose, even for an instant. I suppose that's the word I was dancing around, really. I keep happy because I've got hope. Life is hard, but it's also extremely random at times. I need to be ready and charged for when opportunities appear. Both those I seek out and those that find me. Although, to be fair, I could probably be a better seeker, but that's just something I need to work on. Shyness is not an insurmountable obstacle, after all. In any case, I feel I've made my argument for now. It's my own little piece of Zen, I suppose. The final form of cynicism is to realize that cynicism itself is flawed as it shows the world for what it is, but not what it can become. It just takes effort and a smile to get there. That's not to say that pure optimism is the best, either. It only shows what can be, not what is. To get anywhere, you need both a point of origin and a goal. Cynicism and optimism. Maybe you'll reach the goal, maybe you won't. But it's worth a shot... or 20.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
eh, my take is a bit less generous, cynicism is easy because you never have to make an effort, just mope and moan. finding things in life worth living for, finding hope, that is the tough stuff, you actually have to make an effort, be disappointed at times, show guts, it is so darn hard, and crawling into a ball and moaning about the world is so very easy. used to do that when i was a teenager, in retrospect it was really pathetic, but you grow up and realize you find happiness, it just doesn't fall on you, so you get off your butt and make an effort. cynics hate people who found happiness, hope, and joy though, because it just reminds them how pathetic they are.
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Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Yes.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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No wait, sorry that movie would only be guaranteed a nomination, not an Oscar. For an instant Oscar it would also have to be about a Jew in Nazi Germany.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
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Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
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In 3-D?
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Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
No wait, sorry that movie would only be guaranteed a nomination, not an Oscar. For an instant Oscar it would also have to be about a Jew in Nazi Germany.
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No, 3-D would only cheapen it for the Oscar Committee. It will be presented in black and white rotoscope, for extra poignancy.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
In 3-D?
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Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
And Tom Hanks
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
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"I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."|
Originally Posted by McNum
The world is a terrible unfair and generally unpleasant place. I take it we agree on that? However, I can't do a thing about most of that, and all that's in the past has already happened, so I can't do anything about that either. So I face the future with a smile. Because whatever is there isn't going to get better by frowning at it.
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-Marcus Cole, Babylon 5.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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