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Originally Posted by SaraSparks
So I'm looking to start a new alt and thinking along the lines of the Illusion line as the title suggested. I see just a multitude of Ill/Rad threads be it for advice, suggestive help, ect, ect.. So it got me thinking since I had kind of started (Lvl 6) an Ill/kin, maybe I was missing something when I got to looking for Ill/Kin threads and found one 5-6 pages back.
So basically what Im asking is just kind of a Readers Digest version of the plus/minus of those two sets. Is Ill/Rad just a much better combo overall for some reason that Im unaware of in the long run over Ill/Kin? I've not gotten a rad or kin much past lvl 35 on any of my other attempts. For whatever reason they just never gained my appreciation as a combo in other sets, so I'm kind of hoping the Illusion set will tilt the scales to finishing one. Love my Earth/Storms, and love my varying defender types, that have control styles for the most part. So I know its not the 'controller' theme, playstyle or that but would like some thoughts on what the big draw from what I can see is of rad over kin. Thanks in advance. |
Illusions cannot be buffed or healed so generally you want a secondary that debuffs your enemy. hence why most people take Rad as it is the best secondary for debuffing though I am also a fan of stuff like storm or Trick arrows myself to pair with illusion.
Ill/Storm gives is a combo that can give MMs a run for the money in the pet department, Ill/Kin, though, runs into that problem. You can't buff illusions, so the biggest move in Kinetic's arsenal, Fulcrum Shift, takes a big hit.
Plus, Rad gives AM, Rech is the Illusionists best friend.
Well, Ill/Kin gives Siphon Speed, which provides better recharge than AM once you can stack it. It's a lot more hassle, but if you don't mind spamming Siphon Speed every 20 seconds or so you'll double AM's recharge bonus.
Overall I'd still rather go /Rad though.
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I think it depends on 'How much influence you got' I never tried illusion/rad but OH GOD the endurance situation must be hell. With Kin you get the nice DMG buffs for yourself, speed,recharge,great endurance,slight regen debuff, dmg debuff. On the other hand like already mentioned you can't buff the Phantom Army and Rad's debuffs help more in that way. In no way am I saying Illusion/Rad is worse I'm just stating that it would probably take more work then an Illusion/Kin.
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Almost all ill/rads work towards perma-AM/Hasten anyway, even if they can't get enough for perma-PA. This means the endurance recovery from AM is permanently on, basically, which means ill/rads generally don't have to worry about endurance unless they use EM Pulse a lot (and even then, they probably still have some endurance left after the recovery debuff wears off). Ill/rads generally don't take Choking Cloud, but this isn't always the case.
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Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
I think it depends on 'How much influence you got' I never tried illusion/rad but OH GOD the endurance situation must be hell. With Kin you get the nice DMG buffs for yourself, speed,recharge,great endurance,slight regen debuff, dmg debuff. On the other hand like already mentioned you can't buff the Phantom Army and Rad's debuffs help more in that way. In no way am I saying Illusion/Rad is worse I'm just stating that it would probably take more work then an Illusion/Kin.
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If you are looking for information on Illusion/Radiation, take a look at my guide -- the link is in my sig.
Phantom Army is the most important power in Illusion. (Others in this thread were calling them "Illusions," but the proper name is Phantom Army or PA.) You want PA to recharge as fast as possible to get them out as much as you can. Unlike other pets, PA cannot be buffed by anything other than enhancements in the slots of the power, so only Defense Debuffs will make them hit more often, and only Resistance Debuffs will make them do more damage.
Kinetics has Recharge buffs in Siphon Speed -- you have to siphon off of a foe, but you can stack the Recharge. However, Kinetics does NOT have any Resistance or Defense Debuffs. Radiation is the only secondary that has BOTH a recharge buff (in Accelerate Metabolism) and the Defense and Resistance Debuffs to make PA more effective. That is one of the reasons Ill/Rad is so popular and so good.
Also, Kinetics tends to want to stay in melee, while the Illusion set is best played at range. Why? Phantasm has a habit of knocking back foes. It is very frustrating to line up a foe for a Transfusion or Transference, only to have Phanty knock that foe out of range just as the power goes off.
There is no question that the team buffs in Kinetics are powerful. But if you are talking synergy with Illusion, no secondary has better synergy than Radiation.
You don't have to go with an expensive Perma-PA build . . . an Ill/Rad is very good even without a min/max build. That is just the forum people talking.
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That is not true. The majority of Ill/Rads never make it there. It takes a fair amount of extra Recharge to make a Perma-PA build, and that tends to be expensive or take a long investment in time.| "Almost all ill/rads work towards perma-AM/Hasten anyway." |
Illusion is such a good set that it actually works well with ALL secondaries. There is no bad choice. Ill/Rad is my favorite, but after that, I like Ill/Storm and Ill/TA. Both of those sets have good Debuffs, but do not have the Recharge buff. I have both Ill/Storm and Ill/TA at 50, as well as my two Ill/Rads. Illusion/Cold is supposed to have very strong debuffs for tough single foes -- I haven't played one yet, so I have no personal experience.
Kinetics is a great secondary, as long as you like to click a lot. It still works great with Illusion if that's what you want to play.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Thanks everyone, thats EXACTLY the kind of responses I was looking/hoping for!!!
It would have been like lvl 30 I would have realized why/what the differences are and then been frustrated w/the time spent. I do happen to have a TA/archer defender so I dont believe I'll go w/that since I just LOVE playing that toon and dont wish to take anything away from her w/basically an alt to her in a manner of speaking.
I'm fascinated w/the Illusion controller so I'll stick w/that and see what kinda fun it provides. I guess I'll try kinetics in a different supportive set to see if I can build it past my normal 30 mark and continue w/a Ill/rad and see what all the hub-bub is about.
Thanks for the responses again, very helpful.
SaraSparks
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SaraSparks
Thanks everyone, thats EXACTLY the kind of responses I was looking/hoping for!!!
It would have been like lvl 30 I would have realized why/what the differences are and then been frustrated w/the time spent. I do happen to have a TA/archer defender so I dont believe I'll go w/that since I just LOVE playing that toon and dont wish to take anything away from her w/basically an alt to her in a manner of speaking. I'm fascinated w/the Illusion controller so I'll stick w/that and see what kinda fun it provides. I guess I'll try kinetics in a different supportive set to see if I can build it past my normal 30 mark and continue w/a Ill/rad and see what all the hub-bub is about. Thanks for the responses again, very helpful. SaraSparks |
Just be aware that Kinetics does not get its key powers, Transference and Fulcrum Shift, until levels 35 and 38. It is a very late-blooming set. Another reason for Rad's popularity is that most of the great Rad powers come early.
The basics of an Illusion Controller: Take Blind, Spectral Wounds and Deceive as your first three powers. Choose between Superior Invis (toggle invis with high endurance cost) or Group Invis (clickable group Invis that won't actually be able to made permanent untill level 22 and SOs), but not both unless you need to for a special build (those who take both use GI as a set mule). Most people take SI. Phantom Army at 18 -- Spectral Terror at 26. PA should be slotted with 3 recharge first, then Damage and some accuracy. My Ill/Rad guide can give you a suggested build for an Ill/Rad, both leveling up and final.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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My Ill/Rad is like .5 seconds from perma PA (at that point there really isn't any point to spending the fortune it would take to get the last few milliseconds of recharge to get perma pa)... and has perma AM... |
Originally Posted by SaraSparks
Thanks everyone, thats EXACTLY the kind of responses I was looking/hoping for!!!
It would have been like lvl 30 I would have realized why/what the differences are and then been frustrated w/the time spent. I do happen to have a TA/archer defender so I don't believe I'll go w/that since I just LOVE playing that toon and don't wish to take anything away from her w/basically an alt to her in a manner of speaking. I'm fascinated w/the Illusion controller so I'll stick w/that and see what kinda fun it provides. I guess I'll try kinetics in a different supportive set to see if I can build it past my normal 30 mark and continue w/a Ill/rad and see what all the hub-bub is about. Thanks for the responses again, very helpful. SaraSparks |
It can easily* solo most GMs and AVs... when i think of absurdly overpowered combos that one springs to mind.
*easily as in never get close to dying, it does take a little bit of time to kill them
Personally, while i have 2 lvl.50 kin trollers (a plant and a fire) and i love the strength of the set, i wouldn't play an ill/kin unless it was a concept build. most of the power of a kin is completely negated by the nature of the pets an ill troller gets.
That doesn't mean you can't build a good ill/kin, that just means i don't see how you can build a "great" AV/GM soloing monster that can singlehandedly hold off LR in a tankless STF
So I'm looking to start a new alt and thinking along the lines of the Illusion line as the title suggested. I see just a multitude of Ill/Rad threads be it for advice, suggestive help, ect, ect.. So it got me thinking since I had kind of started (Lvl 6) an Ill/kin, maybe I was missing something when I got to looking for Ill/Kin threads and found one 5-6 pages back.
So basically what Im asking is just kind of a Readers Digest version of the plus/minus of those two sets. Is Ill/Rad just a much better combo overall for some reason that Im unaware of in the long run over Ill/Kin? I've not gotten a rad or kin much past lvl 35 on any of my other attempts. For whatever reason they just never gained my appreciation as a combo in other sets, so I'm kind of hoping the Illusion set will tilt the scales to finishing one.
Love my Earth/Storms, and love my varying defender types, that have control styles for the most part. So I know its not the 'controller' theme, playstyle or that but would like some thoughts on what the big draw from what I can see is of rad over kin.
Thanks in advance.