I'm a big fan of Demons/Dark myself. I've got a level 24 Demons/Dark MM and he seems to work pretty well. I can solo but I've found that he's even better on a good team.
Demon/Storm is quite good:
Stacking -Res powers (Whip attacks, Freezing Rain (Which can stack with itself as each one counts as a different entity)
Stacking slows (Frost Demonling, Demon Prince, Freezing Rain, Snow Storm)
Crowd Control (Gale, Hurricane, Tornado, Lightning Storm)
Nice Damage (Demons (With multiple damage types), Tornado (Against AV's and GM's) Lightning Storm)
It's really hard to go wrong with a MM as they are quite powerful (My weakest MM is still stronger than alot of my other characters)
Also I think a whip powerset is unlikely because I think I remember reading that the whip attacks we currently have took as much work of 3 completely new powersets or something rediculous like that.
dark IMO is the best MM secondary due to the area heal. being poison i feel silly pitching softballs to my ninja to heal them.
i would like to see some tweaks to the other MM secondary lines as well
DS/Thermal is beastly. Basically takes all of the positive attributes of demons and takes them to the next level. Tanker level resists, forge on 3 pets at once, debuffs, heals when eventually they take significant damage. The main downside is that it's very busy but if you're into that it's a lot of fun. It's probably my favorite toon to mess around with.
I hate bubbling so that kills FF and thermal for me. I don't understand why they don't make it last something like 30 min or just leave it 4 min and apply to everyone in the group with 1 cast
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Dark isn't the best because of an area of effect heal. yes, the heal is massive, but the area effect part is pretty marginal (10') compared to the corruptor/defender version. Unless you are right up with your pets in melee, you are not likely to rely on healing them all, you'll have to be selective. My necro fares better in this regard than my bots.|
Originally Posted by Baracca
dark IMO is the best MM secondary due to the area heal. being poison i feel silly pitching softballs to my ninja to heal them.
i would like to see some tweaks to the other MM secondary lines as well |
Dark's strength isn't the aoe heal, its the debuffs in HT, Dark Pit, DN and FS (and TG to a lesser extent).
Overall, I would recommend Dark or Pain. Dark is proactive. Pain is reactive.
I'm currently leveling a DS/Pain and it has literally (forgive the pun), "painless". As smooth as /Dark. You can get roughly the same resists as Thermal (but vs. all damage types), and you get group scrapper-level regeneration as opposed to another debuff (in Thermal). You can Painbringer (make virtually indestructible) one toon (ahem, Prince), versus Thermal, where you can spread out the love a bit with Forge.
One thing Pain doesn't have compared to Thermal is -Regen, so if you are AV hunting, consider Thermal. But really, IMO, if you are AV hunting, you are best off with Traps or Dark for reasons you can find all over these forums
Have fun, hard to go wrong, just find the secondary that suits your playstyle. Like others, I find applying buffs every 4 min a bit tedious. I prefer Pain's AoE buffage/debuffage better. Thermal does get style points, though.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
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Want to hear my theory? The same sadist who designed Perez Park, Hollows and put mezzing Vahzilok in the AP Sewers also designed the buff rotation FF and Thermal sets. :P
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Originally Posted by Baracca
I hate bubbling so that kills FF and thermal for me. I don't understand why they don't make it last something like 30 min or just leave it 4 min and apply to everyone in the group with 1 cast
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53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Thermal is hands down one of the best secondaries for a Mastermind in general and it molds very well with Demon Summoning...Here's how...
First AoE and Targeted heals. Second, Resistance shields that stack with the Demons natural resistance and Ember Shield. Third, DeBuffs! I soloed Paladin in KR last week at level 40ish and took about 3 minutes. Not a single demon died!
Other things to consider:
1. Hell on Earth: Call to Arms (set of 5 including proc) and Expedient Reinforcment proc in 6th slot. 10% more resistance to all and 5% Def.
2. Get them other procs! Edict of the Master (5% Def) and Soveriegn Right (10% Resist). This gives you added resistance to your demons of 35% (including both thermal shields) in addition to their self resistance and before you add in Embers.
3. Maneuvers and Grant Invisibility. Resistance is already covered above, so add another 6-7% Def in addition to the procs for 16-17% Def. Not getting hit even once in a while is a good thing!
4. Lastly, I got the proof. Mine is a beast, I went from 45 to 48 yesterday just doing event stuff and a couple of TFs.
Final note: Learn bodyguarding. It will save your life!
Cheers
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Han Solo: [laughs] Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good BLASTER at your side, kid.
Don't forget Thaw... Demons are mainly resist based so they will get hit a lot more than Bots or Thugs, and that includes mezzes. Being able to protect them from being held, slept, and stunned (or at least wake them up if you see one has been) looks rather useful.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
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Nice, glad to see my new Demons/Thermal was a good choice 
.
I was making it's build up in Mids last night though and was confused about the procs being put into Hell on Earth though. IIRC the procs only effect the pets that the power they are slotted into summons. But Hell on Earth is a targeted pet buff with "living hellfire" spawning(and it looks like de-spawning) on timers, so what would procs put into it affect (living hellfires, targeted pet, or both)?
Is there any power in a Demons/Thermal/Fire that should be left out (besides what will most likely be brought up; Power of the Phoenix and Rise of the Phoenix, they are the essence of the toon's concept)?
Edit: btw Energy the first line of your sig is so epicly accurate i'm still LMAO here after reading it
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I'm not sure about Heat Mastery, but my DS/Therm has all primary and secondary powers... They are all usefull (The whip attacks -res stacks I believe)
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Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
Is there any power in a Demons/Thermal/Fire that should be left out (besides what will most likely be brought up; Power of the Phoenix and Rise of the Phoenix, they are the essence of the toon's concept)?
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yup I kept all the whips, but as the build stands now Thaw isn't in the build which I know needs to change. I can't even get rid of the Ancil powers, just flip them around, because the RotP power I took it for requires 2 before it. I did take Assault, but I think part of the reason I haven't enjoyed MMs is the damage is low pre-50slotting and they die before they clear the aggro, then I promptly die after them. So I thought that was a good powerchoice and didn't wanna remove it 
.
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What Power Pool powers do you have other than Assault? Because I think either one of them or one of the whip powers would have to go...|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
yup I kept all the whips, but as the build stands now Thaw isn't in the build which I know needs to change. I can't even get rid of the Ancil powers, just flip them around, because the RotP power I took it for requires 2 before it. I did take Assault, but I think part of the reason I haven't enjoyed MMs is the damage is low pre-50slotting and they die before they clear the aggro, then I promptly die after them. So I thought that was a good powerchoice and didn't wanna remove it
. |
Also as DS/Therm it shouldn't be too hard to keep your pets alive (Mine started at level 1 and got the difficulty up to x2 before any missions, it has since only gone up) the only thing that has been a problem was a longbow tip mission that had 3 sonic bosses that all used alot of cones...
He has all the Demon primaries, is only missing Thaw from the secondary, then fly, hasten, assault, and 3 ancil's and is out of powers. I was thinking Assault was the biggest contender to drop for the mezprot, but does 11%dmgbuff to 6pets+myself+a team for mezprotection sound worth it? I can't tell, i'm only lv6 with this toon who's plan I'm working on so I don't know how the damage is going to get with the demons if I leave out assault. With hell on earth and the 2 debuffs having 2-5min recharges each I thought Hasten would have to be a staple, but then again i'm not to great a buildplanner.
Oh and I read the paragonwiki on Procs and it didn't help me much....would steadfast protection's procs in the 2 ally shield clickpowers be auto or on a 2min timer for the time I hit the power on someone? I put a BotZ in Fly but thought steadfast might work better.
And any ideas on the Hell On Earth proc question? I've asked a couple people in-game and nobody has an idea on how that works.
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Hasten isn't staple (Due to the buffs really only needing a bit of accuracy and 3 recharge SO's) but it helps, my DS's current build has them with a 51.5 and 63.8 second recharge which I figure is pretty good as they have 40 second durations using only 3 Recharge SO's and a few small set bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
He has all the Demon primaries, is only missing Thaw from the secondary, then fly, hasten, assault, and 3 ancil's and is out of powers. I was thinking Assault was the biggest contender to drop for the mezprot, but does 11%dmgbuff to 6pets+myself+a team for mezprotection sound worth it? I can't tell, i'm only lv6 with this toon who's plan I'm working on so I don't know how the damage is going to get with the demons if I leave out assault. With hell on earth and the 2 debuffs having 2-5min recharges each I thought Hasten would have to be a staple, but then again i'm not to great a buildplanner.
Oh and I read the paragonwiki on Procs and it didn't help me much....would steadfast protection's procs in the 2 ally shield clickpowers be auto or on a 2min timer for the time I hit the power on someone? I put a BotZ in Fly but thought steadfast might work better. And any ideas on the Hell On Earth proc question? I've asked a couple people in-game and nobody has an idea on how that works. |
Now onto procs, Expedient Reinforcement and Call to Arms procs arn't actually procs, when slotted into a power they will give you an aura that gives your pets resist and defence respectivly when they are in range (Approx Supremacy range). Steadfast Protection also doesn't have procs either when slotted they will give you constant knockback protection/3% defence. Personally I slotted them for Resistance and End redux so they give better protection to my team/pets and so I don't run dry when I summon + buff my pets in solo (And I can keep healing when they start dropping off during a fight)
cool, so I'll add the slots for steadfast's then . So with those aura's if I were to have 3 accross different powers every pet in range of me would have all 3? That's awesome . I'll look at my slotting and see if I can get the recharge where I like it and pull hasten for Thaw.
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The aura's are uniques and also recharge intesive sets, meaning they cannot go into your regular pets (Though there is a +Def and +Resist "Proc" in pet damage sets but they only affect the pet they are slotted into)
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Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
cool, so I'll add the slots for steadfast's then
. So with those aura's if I were to have 3 accross different powers every pet in range of me would have all 3? That's awesome . I'll look at my slotting and see if I can get the recharge where I like it and pull hasten for Thaw. |
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oh, yeah I have the 2 procs set in 2 demon powers, should I put both the aura ones in hell on earth then?
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Originally Posted by Kiwi
The aura's are uniques and also recharge intesive sets, meaning they cannot go into your regular pets (Though there is a +Def and +Resist "Proc" in pet damage sets but they only affect the pet they are slotted into)
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This is incorrect. The Sovereign Right and Edict of the Master procs, which are also unique enhancements, function exactly like the recharge intensive procs. Once slotted in ANY pet, they give you, the MM, 20' radius auras which apply to all pets.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi
Though there is a +Def and +Resist "Proc" in pet damage sets but they only affect the pet they are slotted into
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- The laws of science were, first, God's laws. We didn't make them, we just gave them a name...likely not the name their creator gave them.
- No, no. Humans made them. The same way we made gravity, the atomic bomb, Cheetos, babies, and water.
Wow, I went and looked them up on the wiki, not only do they function as aura's, but they aren't 20' radius, but 40(!)
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Edict_..._Defense_Bonus
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Sovere...sistance_Bonus
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I don't have all three whips on any of my demon summoning. I would sacrifice a whip before I would give up hasten.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
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HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Yep, you're right. For some reason I was thinking Supremacy was only 40' and I knew the radii on the auras are 20' smaller than Supremacy's radius. Something for you to keep in mind when considering your positioning in relation to your henchies.
- The laws of science were, first, God's laws. We didn't make them, we just gave them a name...likely not the name their creator gave them.
- No, no. Humans made them. The same way we made gravity, the atomic bomb, Cheetos, babies, and water.
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Those bonuses stack? Holy crap I didnt know that!
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Originally Posted by Energy_Aura
Thermal is hands down one of the best secondaries for a Mastermind in general and it molds very well with Demon Summoning...Here's how...
First AoE and Targeted heals. Second, Resistance shields that stack with the Demons natural resistance and Ember Shield. Third, DeBuffs! I soloed Paladin in KR last week at level 40ish and took about 3 minutes. Not a single demon died! Other things to consider: 1. Hell on Earth: Call to Arms (set of 5 including proc) and Expedient Reinforcment proc in 6th slot. 10% more resistance to all and 5% Def. 2. Get them other procs! Edict of the Master (5% Def) and Soveriegn Right (10% Resist). This gives you added resistance to your demons of 35% (including both thermal shields) in addition to their self resistance and before you add in Embers. 3. Maneuvers and Grant Invisibility. Resistance is already covered above, so add another 6-7% Def in addition to the procs for 16-17% Def. Not getting hit even once in a while is a good thing! 4. Lastly, I got the proof. Mine is a beast, I went from 45 to 48 yesterday just doing event stuff and a couple of TFs. Final note: Learn bodyguarding. It will save your life! Cheers |
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Heh, yeah. With both Resist procs, Thermal's shields, the Ember Demon's resist aura, and their natural resistances... all your demons should have around 75% resistance to Smashing/Lethal attacks... not bad values at all. (I don't remember what the other resistances I worked out were, but they were not bad numbers at all.)|
Originally Posted by Hockeypuckhead
Those bonuses stack? Holy crap I didnt know that!
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Throw in your heals and the Ember Demon's heals... You have a pretty safe combination. The two +Def Uniques, stacked with Maneuvers, provide some cushioning defense on top of their resistance values.
Thermal Radiation is probably the most well balanced MM Secondaries in general, and a good compliment to any primary, and a very good (and thematic) choice for Demon Summoning... provided that you can handle reapplying the buffs every four minutes. If that doesn't appeal, then do yourself a favor, and go for /Dark, /Storm, or /Traps, instead.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Sorry I have been gone almost 2 years, I already have an old 50 Robots/ dark, and a high level thugs/ poison, and I think I have ninjas dark also, so I tried to do something new and rolled demon/ storm.
But before I get to far along I twanted to askt he community some advice on this, its it a decent combo, or will it start to show serious deficiences later on?
Thanks a bunch.
On a side note, the whip attacks ar so cool they should make a full whip powerset...