Melee:
Kinetic Melee (Burst, Focused Burst)
Super Strength (Hurl, Foot Stomp)
Claws (Focus, Spin Shockwave, Eviscerate)
Armor:
Shield Defense (Shield Charge)
Epics/Patrons:
Soul Mastery (Gloom, Dark Obliteration, Darkest Night, Soul Tentacles).
Too bad you can't make Claws/Shield/Soul.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Claws wins with two true ranged attacks: Focus and Shockwave. Add on Soul Master and chain Focus, Gloom, Soul Tentacles, Dark Obliteration, Shockwave.
But you could also go elec/sd for the two tport attacks and add the PPP in on top of that.
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Put scrapper on the end of that and my rage spikes even higher.
| Too bad you can't make Claws/Shield/Soul. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Ditto on this. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Claws wins with two true ranged attacks: Focus and Shockwave. Add on Soul Master and chain Focus, Gloom, Soul Tentacles, Dark Obliteration, Shockwave.
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However, the question may be, do you want range, or do you want to LOOK like ranged? Breath of Fire in Fire Melee has a 15 foot range, and while Jacob's Ladder is only 7 feet, you also get Lightning Rod, which is as much a ranged attack as Shield Charge. There is also Battle Axe's Cleave with a 10 foot range, although as a narrow cone it's really only likely to hit foes in a straight line.
The main thing is, while Hurl is nice for the amount of range it has, there's really no way to follow up the attack unless you're in melee, and then why use Hurl? The cone attacks, while they are shorter range, are AoEs, and you can follow up with melee attacks. Claws still has the huge advantage with Focus and Shockwave. Still, I usually find myself using both attacks in melee on my Claws chars.
There are some interesting possibilities, though. Electric/Shield for Lightning Rod/Shield Charge combos. Fire/Shield for Shield Charge followed by Breath of Fire and Fire Sword Circle. Or Axe or Mace/Shield for Shield Charge and Cleave/Pendulum or Shatter/Crowd Control.
And I'm actually working on levelling a Kin/Shield myself. Not a Brute, but I'm interested in seeing how the Charge meshes with the semi-ranged attacks and knockback.
Also, don't forget that ALL of the Epics and Patron Pools have ranged attacks in them. I don't know much that beats a good fireball.
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Fixed. See, who needs Frenzy when I'm around to point out things that will never be? XD|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Put scrapper on the end of that and my fury spikes even higher.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Also, don't forget that ALL of the Epics and Patron Pools have ranged attacks in them. I don't know much that beats a good fireball.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Melee:
Kinetic Melee (Burst, Focused Burst) |
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Claws wins with two true ranged attacks: Focus and Shockwave. Add on Soul Master and chain Focus, Gloom, Soul Tentacles, Dark Obliteration, Shockwave.
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If that's the case, Claws and KM would tie.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
I'm looking at both closely. Range for claws is a 40' 1 person attack, 30' 90* cone, plus a PBAoE, and a melee cone 90*. Not bad
Kinetic Melee offers a Ranged Cone, and a Ranged High dam att, plus a PBAoE. Anybody know the ranges for Kinetic Melee attacks? they work better thematically. How the heck do claws reach 40'?
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Imho, probably the best you're going to get for "ranged" attack damage will be from either Claws or Kinetic Melee, with SS coming up a close third, and those paired with Fire Armor.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, I know this is a strange one. But I am bored. I love blasters, hate squishy. True supervillains stand and laugh and blast at range. My Blasters tend to blast at range and faceplant. This is a three part question.
What powersets in Brute have the most ranged attacks? (yes, short range here counts, cause that's about all we got) What AoE we got? Also, AoE is helpful. The more the merrier. Obviously these will usually be PBAoE. So, which Epic Sets (and ancillary sets) will add to the I will get you at range sucka feeling? oh, 4th part, which seconday helps with this either through AoE, or whatever else? |
Both Claws and KM have two ranged attacks, although KM's second ranged attack-Repulsing Torrent-is more of a "mitigation tool" than a ton of damage, but, it does recharge faster than Shockwave for Claws, so it's a bit of a toss-up. Add to either of those Primaries a decent ranged attack from your patron powers--and there are SEVERAL different options to choose from, although I lean more towards "Gloom" for ST--and you've got yourself a pretty decent ranged "Brute" class. Pair this with the secondary Fire Armor so that you can stack a bit of damage increase on all of those ranged attack with Fiery Embrace, and I think you'll be very pleased.
You might also consider a Scrapper though, for ranged damage. I mean, if you're staying mostly at range, then any Scrapper or Brute has little to worry about as far as survivability goes, so a Scrapper would work fine as well. One nice thing about a Scrapper would critical chances on your ranged attacks and that they start out with higher damage modifiers. You might not maintain a solid amount of Fury on a Brute when attacking at range, so that could hinder some of your overall damage output. A Scrapper doesn't have to worry about the Fury Dance for his damage.
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Oh lord no. Repulsing Torrent is like a cone Hand Clap with a puny damage effect added.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
I've not played a Kinetic Melee Brute (or Scrapper or Tanker), but I thought Repulsing Torrent was similar to Shockwave.
If that's the case, Claws and KM would tie. |
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
Imho, probably the best you're going to get for "ranged" attack damage will be from either Claws or Kinetic Melee, with SS coming up a close third, and those paired with Fire Armor.
Both Claws and KM have two ranged attacks, although KM's second ranged attack-Repulsing Torrent-is more of a "mitigation tool" than a ton of damage, but, it does recharge faster than Shockwave for Claws, so it's a bit of a toss-up. Add to either of those Primaries a decent ranged attack from your patron powers--and there are SEVERAL different options to choose from, although I lean more towards "Gloom" for ST--and you've got yourself a pretty decent ranged "Brute" class. Pair this with the secondary Fire Armor so that you can stack a bit of damage increase on all of those ranged attack with Fiery Embrace, and I think you'll be very pleased. You might also consider a Scrapper though, for ranged damage. I mean, if you're staying mostly at range, then any Scrapper or Brute has little to worry about as far as survivability goes, so a Scrapper would work fine as well. One nice thing about a Scrapper would critical chances on your ranged attacks and that they start out with higher damage modifiers. You might not maintain a solid amount of Fury on a Brute when attacking at range, so that could hinder some of your overall damage output. A Scrapper doesn't have to worry about the Fury Dance for his damage. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Okay, I rarely run scrappers. Mostly cause I suck at it, but for this experiment I will throw it in the hat as an experiment. Still though, any word on Range for kinetic Melee?
The other reason Kinetic Melee is still in the running (the first being I do not see claws attacking 40 ft, does anybody even think about these things but me?) is the levels you get the powers, and comparable damage. Claws High dam ranged ST at 18, KM at 26. Claws Cone Mod Dam at 32, KM at 8. So even though you wait a few levels for the high damage (lets face it, 18-26 is a hot afternoon) the diff between 8 and 32 is a lifetime.
update, range and target cap for attacks are the same, Claws, Kinetic Melee. But, it looks like damage for Claws 30ft attack is better than KM. also, the Claws have 90 cone, the KM a 45. So, thematically KM has an edge, but game mechanics say Claws. +Claws has that nice melee attack vs 5 targets at 26th level, another 90 cone. Now I just gotta figure out if I am going Scrapper (Scrapper Regen would be wicked for a Blaster lol), or gonna Brute it. I doubt I can keep at range, no matter the theory, which is why I am taking a Frankenblaster look at stuff instead of a Blaster approach, so Rage should not be a problem if I Brute. However, in a nod to theory I need to stay away from Willpower, since i will be trying to stay at range. I need to either get a buffing secondary, or a pure survival one.
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Repulsing Torrent != Shockwave. Comparing them is a bad idea.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, I rarely run scrappers. Mostly cause I suck at it, but for this experiment I will throw it in the hat as an experiment. Still though, any word on Range for kinetic Melee?
The other reason Kinetic Melee is still in the running (the first being I do not see claws attacking 40 ft, does anybody even think about these things but me?) is the levels you get the powers, and comparable damage. Claws High dam ranged ST at 18, KM at 26. Claws Cone Mod Dam at 32, KM at 8. So even though you wait a few levels for the high damage (lets face it, 18-26 is a hot afternoon) the diff between 8 and 32 is a lifetime. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Well, the other thing that you are going to want to consider, and I think it is a HUGE impact on your choice, is that the only way Claws is going to get any use out of it's "Build Up" power, Follow-Up, is by running "into" melee range to do it... |
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, I rarely run scrappers. Mostly cause I suck at it, but for this experiment I will throw it in the hat as an experiment. Still though, any word on Range for kinetic Melee?
The other reason Kinetic Melee is still in the running (the first being I do not see claws attacking 40 ft, does anybody even think about these things but me?) is the levels you get the powers, and comparable damage. Claws High dam ranged ST at 18, KM at 26. Claws Cone Mod Dam at 32, KM at 8. So even though you wait a few levels for the high damage (lets face it, 18-26 is a hot afternoon) the diff between 8 and 32 is a lifetime. |
This means, that every 10 seconds...you'll have to run into melee to get a damage/tohit buff....and if you want to "stack" that buff....you'll have to run into melee even more. Basically, if you want to use the advantage of Follow-Up, your damage booster, you'll have to be in melee range to do it. Which sorta defeats the purpose of "ranged damage dealing Brute" if you ask me. This leaves Shields as NOT a contender as well, since AAO requires you to be in melee for it's effects to work.
With this staggering downside as a factor, I'd actually say that KM and SS are your only options, with Claws coming in as a distant third. At least both KM and SS don't require melee range to work, and KM can stack it's dmg buff without being in melee range in the first place.
Furthermore, Claws is all lethal damage, which is the most resisted damage type in the game, even over Smashing. Without being able to use Follow-Up consistantly, and stack it, you are going to feel the effects of all that +res tremendously. Your damage is definitely going to suffer. At least KM has some exotic damage type with Energy, and you can still get its damage buff to work for you even outside of melee.
My vote solidly rests on choosing a: KM/FA Scrapper w/various ranged Epic/Patron powers.
For what you want, I don't find Claws as a serious contender at all tbh...
For me personally I LOVE my Elec/Elec/Mu Mastery Brute.
I feel like with the Fury (nerfed or not) I can do things fast (because of the elevated accuracy & damage) plus the Lightening Rod is a game-changer for me when properly slotted. 
Also the Chain Induction works nicely at getting some foes that out of immediate reach too. 
Lightening Field works well for me when foes are not in my face and Power Sink helps nab some of the others for me too
Mu Mastery is where farther range comes into play for me that I love too.
Summoning a Mu Striker is awesome for that.
Mu Lightening, Electric Fence, Ball Lightening, and Static Discharge are ALL nice ranged attacks.
With this Brute I feel as though I have a bit of everything at my disposal.
I can keep mobs at bay, disoriented, suck their endurance and damage the snot out of them too.
Plus the Mu Mastery keeps my Brute in the "Electric" them that I always wanted
@Patrick Magellen
Infinity & Freedom Servers!
I see after a little recon that you are correct Nal. Forgive me, since they both say Mod in the documentation. Mod is a huge scale I guess. It looks like Claws wins that one, claws down. Too bad the range scale Close and Short is exactly the same. Humph, this game reads like stereo instructions. Plays nice though.
I guess Scrapper +damage is just on their primary attacks? whereas Bute Fury applies to all we throw downrange? Decisions decisions, which way to take the Frankenblaster.
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That's pretty accurate. Scrapper damage is a lot like a wrecking ball; you can smash it into things all day but you don't use the base of the machine to bust stuff up. Brute's are more like the giant ball of death from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom; sure, it starts off slow, but once it gains enough speed that whole thing is now an instrument of pain.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I guess Scrapper +damage is just on their primary attacks? whereas Bute Fury applies to all we throw downrange? Decisions decisions, which way to take the Frankenblaster. |
Scrapper crits (in my experience) are just for their primaries, but Fury is a global damage buff.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Okay, it's gonna sound Ugly. it sounds ugly to me anyways, but here goes: drum roll.....
Claws/Electric Armor/Mu Mastery.
To get rid of my claws problem I can take the widow claws and the huge forearm thingys mebbe lol.
Any thoughts? (not about the graphics, about the potential build)
I do not have any experience with electric armor, and Claws only to about 20.
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Shockwave hits up to 10 enemies in a 90degree cone for 47.13 damage every 14.4 seconds with a cast time of 1 second.|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
For what you want, I don't find Claws as a serious contender at all tbh... |
Repulsing Torrent hits (unknown, will assume 10) enemies in a 45degree cone for 33.4 damage every 12 seconds with a cast time of 2 seconds.
Power siphon only works with hits. If you set it off and then hit repulsing torrent, guess what isn't buffed? But we'll say you fired off focused burst first and give repulsing torrent a 25% buff.
Each will be slotted 1acc/1end-red/1rec-red/3dam and we'll use 150% damage buff from fury.
Shockwave Max Damage: (47.13 * 1+1.5+.95) * 10 = 1626 every 10.8 seconds. 150.6 DPS
Repulsing Torrent Max Damage: (33.4 * 1+.25+1.5+.95) * 10 = 1236 damage every 9 seconds. 137.3 DPS
Want me to do a comparison for claws/focus versus km/focused burst? Ok.
Focus: 63 in 1.17 seconds, 53.85 DPA
FB: 68.4 in 2 seconds, 34.2 DPA
Claws not a contender? Yea, whatever. Edit: And yes, the enemy resistance thing is overrated as well.
Be well, people of CoH.
Most ranged attacks on a Brute? I'd say lean toward the Epic pools and choose Claws or Kinetic Melee. I would probably make my decision on if I want Spin and Followup (which will not work at range) vs Burst and Power Siphon (that will only work if you use your Kinetic attacks).
Epic Pools:
Arctic Mastery (***)
-low dmg Ranged immobilize
-Ranged hold with long recharge
-Blast that does the same dmg as the immobilize
-No dmg cone slow
-High dmg, huge radius storm but with a long recharge
Earth Mastery (**)
-low dmg ranged immobilize
-Ranged hold with long recharge
-No dmg summon slow patch
-low dmg ranged targeted AoE with long recharge
Pyre Mastery (****)
-low dmg ranged immobilize
-ranged hold with long recharge
-moderate dmg ST blast
-ranged debuff
-moderate dmg targeted AoE blast with decent recharge
Leviathan (****)
-moderate ranged attack
-50ft ranged cone immobilize
-2x 60ft ranged cone attacks with moderate dmg and decent recharge
Mace (***)
-moderate ranged attack
-no dmg ranged AoE immobilize + slow
-targeted AoE moderate damage and decent recharge
Mu (****)
-moderate ranged attack
-targeted AoE immobilize
-targeted AoE moderate damage blast
-Low dmg 40ft cone attack
Soul (****)
-high damage ranged blast with fast recharge
-40ft ranged cone immobilize
-targeted AoE moderate damage and decent recharge
Also, why not consider Stalker? Of the sets you could choose for ranged, they also are its best AoE. This is Kinetic Melee, Spines and Electric Melee with Claws actually following. Add in that you can get maximum damage from range (using Build up rather than needing Followup or Power Siphon + bonus damage from hide not to mention extra control via ranged Placate).
With Stalker Epics, you've got a slightly different slew of options.
You've got Dark Mastery which has 2 60ft cone blast, cone immobilize and a ST blast and a hold.
There's Snipes in Mace, Mu and Soul if that's your thing. Then the tasty Water Spout in Leviathan. All these among other ranged options.
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BillZ, we all realize that you are practically married to Claws. There is no reason to wave around that marriage certificate every minute someone whispers "claws". Don't get your panties in a bunch every time someone doesn't find Claws as impressive as you do. Chill.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Shockwave hits up to 10 enemies in a 90degree cone for 47.13 damage every 14.4 seconds with a cast time of 1 second.
Repulsing Torrent hits (unknown, will assume 10) enemies in a 45degree cone for 33.4 damage every 12 seconds with a cast time of 2 seconds. Power siphon only works with hits. If you set it off and then hit repulsing torrent, guess what isn't buffed? But we'll say you fired off focused burst first and give repulsing torrent a 25% buff. Each will be slotted 1acc/1end-red/1rec-red/3dam and we'll use 150% damage buff from fury. Shockwave Max Damage: (47.13 * 1+1.5+.95) * 10 = 1626 every 10.8 seconds. 150.6 DPS Repulsing Torrent Max Damage: (33.4 * 1+.25+1.5+.95) * 10 = 1236 damage every 9 seconds. 137.3 DPS Want me to do a comparison for claws/focus versus km/focused burst? Ok. Focus: 63 in 1.17 seconds, 53.85 DPA FB: 68.4 in 2 seconds, 34.2 DPA Claws not a contender? Yea, whatever. Edit: And yes, the enemy resistance thing is overrated as well. |
Besides, it is in my opinion that the OP would have a better "blastery" time with KM. In fact, KM somewhat loosely resembles Energy Blast already. Sure, Claws may have a little better aoe damage, but KM does have the ability to buff its damage from "range", which is something Claws does not have the luxury of. For a Scrapper, which is what I propose for the OP to roll over a Brute, that buff is a little over 31% +dmg and easily stackable, not 25%. Those buffs will assist the damage of future attacks as well. I do feel that Claws would definitely be somewhat hamperd in the damage department against many foes, especially highly lethal resistant ones, without the use of follow-ups and chained melee attacks, which is its forte. I'm not crunching numbers on it, but that's my take on the matter.
I also don't need to have a logbook of number crunching to present an opinion about what set I think the OP would be happier with for a ranged damage melee set. Personally, I feel he'd like KM over Claws, with a mix of ranged Patron/Epic attacks. He can take my opinion, and others opinions and come up with his own decision. That's how this works.
Your opinion shouldn't be shared when you couple it with ignorance. Had you made statements that your *opinion* was completely based on *feeling* then I wouldn't have had to come in and correct your false beliefs.
Be well, people of CoH.
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That isn't what you said the first time. You claimed SS is a better blast set because it has Rage and Claws has Follow-Up. That's silly.|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I also don't need to have a logbook of number crunching to present an opinion about what set I think the OP would be happier with for a ranged damage melee set. Personally, I feel he'd like KM over Claws, with a mix of ranged Patron/Epic attacks. He can take my opinion, and others opinions and come up with his own decision. That's how this works.
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You're argument made no sense, and someone pointed out why. That's not cause for getting personal.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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Who are you again? And why are you fanning fires? Maybe you should just sit back and be quiet, the discussion is over. I had an opinion on something. BillZ wanted to to make it a numbers issue. That's fine, if he has numbers to back it thats awesome, do it. It simply sheds light onto certain subjects and allows others to draw their own conclusions based on those numbers and opinions combined. I just felt that he was being a bit touchy about it so I was informing him to relax some, but it really doesn't bother me, we have alot of people who get touchy here from time-to-time (myself included).|
Originally Posted by Gilia
That isn't what you said the first time. You claimed SS is a better blast set because it has Rage and Claws has Follow-Up. That's silly.
You're argument made no sense, and someone pointed out why. That's not cause for getting personal. |
What you're doing here, that is whats really silly, as you're not even involved in our discussion, you're simply adding your 2 cents worth of nothing and futher derailing a thread. BillZ being touchy doesn't bother me at all since he has a valid argument with valid numbers, but what does bother me is people such as yourself. The input on your last post and its contribution to this thread had no useful impact whatsoever, so why add it? Other than to troll, fan fires, and completely derail a thread what's the purpose? You have none. So no need to add your 2 cents.
If I want a ranged attack with a Brute, I'll just turn on Super Speed, select my target, hit the Follow key, whack, then zip backwards. heh.
You know, there's another melee class I'd like to do as ranged: the Stalker. A full Sniper AT, not the watered down version you get as a Blaster with pool Stealth.
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While others are helping you pick powersets, I'll add a different idea.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, I know this is a strange one. But I am bored. I love blasters, hate squishy. True supervillains stand and laugh and blast at range. My Blasters tend to blast at range and faceplant. This is a three part question.
What powersets in Brute have the most ranged attacks? (yes, short range here counts, cause that's about all we got) What AoE we got? Also, AoE is helpful. The more the merrier. Obviously these will usually be PBAoE. |
You might also consider a Fortunata or Crab Spider.
Both are/can be completely ranged (ranged is better than melee for both), with plenty of access to AoEs.
You can softcap them both to ranged at the bare minimum, and to all 3 positions with a bit of effort (The fort is easier to cap, but the Crab when capped can also have 50% SM/L Resistances as well as 40% resistance to everything else but psi. In addition you get serum for self heal & +extra HP).
You also get status protection, and enough group support to be welcome on any team.
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Wait... I'm the touchy one? Have you read your posts in this thread? And who are you again?
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
Who are you again? And why are you fanning fires? Maybe you should just sit back and be quiet, the discussion is over. I had an opinion on something. BillZ wanted to to make it a numbers issue. That's fine, if he has numbers to back it thats awesome, do it. It simply sheds light onto certain subjects and allows others to draw their own conclusions based on those numbers and opinions combined. I just felt that he was being a bit touchy about it so I was informing him to relax some, but it really doesn't bother me, we have alot of people who get touchy here from time-to-time (myself included).
What you're doing here, that is whats really silly, as you're not even involved in our discussion, you're simply adding your 2 cents worth of nothing and futher derailing a thread. BillZ being touchy doesn't bother me at all since he has a valid argument with valid numbers, but what does bother me is people such as yourself. The input on your last post and its contribution to this thread had no useful impact whatsoever, so why add it? Other than to troll, fan fires, and completely derail a thread what's the purpose? You have none. So no need to add your 2 cents. |
Be well, people of CoH.
Okay, I know this is a strange one. But I am bored. I love blasters, hate squishy. True supervillains stand and laugh and blast at range. My Blasters tend to blast at range and faceplant. This is a three part question.
What powersets in Brute have the most ranged attacks? (yes, short range here counts, cause that's about all we got)
What AoE we got? Also, AoE is helpful. The more the merrier. Obviously these will usually be PBAoE.
So, which Epic Sets (and ancillary sets) will add to the I will get you at range sucka feeling?
oh, 4th part, which seconday helps with this either through AoE, or whatever else?