My only guess is that it hasn't been proliferated yet.
Probably because they're trying to figure out how to bring EA to tanks without it being to over powered. If you look at the typical difference in defensive multipliers, where scrapper/brute defenses are 3/4 as strong as tanks numbers, it would be extremely easy to soft cap an EA tank.
Translating ED capped brute defensive numbers with tank modifier's would get you around 34% S/L. Everything except Neg would be even higher, with Neg still coming in around 29.7%. Adding in the ED capped tank versions of Combat Jumping and Weave would add more then 10% to everything. So without adding in IO's you'd be soft capped to all types except Neg. and that would be sitting around 40%.
It's not that I wouldn't like to see Energy Aura come to tanks, but I'm sure there would be changes to keep it from being that easy to soft cap.
If/when Energy Aura does get ported over, I'm hoping that they will implement a "Force Field" look as an alternate animation.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Also, isn't Conserve Power an overlapping power they'd have to change?
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Please god yes. Force Field needs some melee armor love, even if it's just a power customization effect. (A Force Field armor set would play basically the same anyways, plus the devs seem to like mixing FF, Energy, and Kinetics as partners to each other some way or other.)
| If/when Energy Aura does get ported over, I'm hoping that they will implement a "Force Field" look as an alternate animation. |
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Why?|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
It's not that I wouldn't like to see Energy Aura come to tanks, but I'm sure there would be changes to keep it from being that easy to soft cap.
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Shield Defense makes it as easy as you describe to reach the defense soft cap. Without even looking at Ice Armor, I can guess it is also easy to soft cap.
I'd also like a power customization option not to disappear when I have Energy Cloak running. Dark Armor got that change; why not energy aura?
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For a casual player with just SO's, Energy Aura is nice.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
Is there a reason why tanks dont have energy aura ?
Is it because brutes dont have ice ? |
If you want to min-max it, Energy Aura blows.
It's like having massive plates of armor covering tissue paper. If something gets through you're toast.
You don't want it, trust me.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I like it on my Brute and Stalker, and want it for my Tank. Yes, it's plate armor over soft underside. That fits thematically for some bits. It also brings a different play style to the game.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
For a casual player with just SO's, Energy Aura is nice.
If you want to min-max it, Energy Aura blows. It's like having massive plates of armor covering tissue paper. If something gets through you're toast. You don't want it, trust me. |
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Wrong. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You don't want it, trust me.
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And trust me, there are people who would play it well. Just because you can't make it work for you, doesn't mean the sets no good. A soft-capped /EA brute is very durable. And soft underbelly? It comes with a AoE heal, so with Tanker HP numbers, you're going to be doing just fine. If that's not enough for you, then go EA/DM as a tank, and have a secondary heal as well.
I'd love to see this set come over so long as they found a way to make a taunt aura. My suggestion would be take Conserve Power, switch its tier with Energy Protection and to make this change:
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| Conservation Aura - Taunt aura, +end discount per foe in range, +end cost for foe. |
That, or make it a clone of Conductive Aura, but I prefer not to see cloned powers when possible.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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So did my DM/DA Brute before all the happy DM changes. Not a fun combo to play back then, or back before Darkest Night. But I did it. I could not, however, make EA work for me.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Apollon
I like it on my Brute and Stalker, and want it for my Tank. Yes, it's plate armor over soft underside. That fits thematically for some bits. It also brings a different play style to the game.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
Wrong.
And trust me, there are people who would play it well. Just because you can't make it work for you, doesn't mean the sets no good. A soft-capped /EA brute is very durable. And soft underbelly? It comes with a AoE heal, so with Tanker HP numbers, you're going to be doing just fine. If that's not enough for you, then go EA/DM as a tank, and have a secondary heal as well. |
Two: Maybe on a tanker the defense numbers would be better. I got a SS/EA Brute to 39 before deleting him out of hate. He wasn't soft-capped, but it still felt like I was running at 10% defense constantly. He got hit way more than any of my other defense-based characters and when he got hit he got hammered. This was, of course, before the heal added in to the siphon.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
I'd love to see this set come over so long as they found a way to make a taunt aura. My suggestion would be take Conserve Power, switch its tier with Energy Protection and to make this change:
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Again, just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean others can't. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I could not, however, make EA work for me.
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| One: I don't have enough time to soft-cap any of my characters. I find that in order to do that I have to take powers I don't want and slot things in ways that I don't really agree with. |
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| Two: Maybe on a tanker the defense numbers would be better. I got a SS/EA Brute to 39 before deleting him out of hate. He wasn't soft-capped, but it still felt like I was running at 10% defense constantly. He got hit way more than any of my other defense-based characters and when he got hit he got hammered. This was, of course, before the heal added in to the siphon. |
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| Conserve Power is already redundant in the set, what with the AoE endurance siphon. It'd need to be changed anyway in order to not conflict with the APP's. In all honesty the set itself needs a serious change. If it stinks on a Brute it won't be much better on a Tanker. |
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| Right now the only reason to roll /EA is if you have a crapton of time, sweat and money to put into it OR if you're rolling it because it's nice to look at. |
I get why the set doesn't work for you, but it's not a valid reason for not porting the set.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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I know I'm arguing from a personal view. Unfortunately a lot of other Brute players don't like EA for the same reasons I do. I've been able to make all of my Brutes/Tankers incredibly survivable (save for my Fire/Fire Brute, I don't want him to be survivable: :P ) without taking Tough, Weave, or softcapping to anything. With EA I have to skip a Travel Power in order to snag Fighting. I know that'll change in I19, and maybe I'll try an EA then. For now it's still a very sub-par set as far as a melee AT is concerned.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
Stuff
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Hate to say it, but Rylas is right here.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
I get why the set doesn't work for you, but it's not a valid reason for not porting the set.
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I'm all for more options. If someone wants to roll an EA tank, let 'em. Likewise with ice brutes.
Speaking of that, someone care to do the comparison between tanker ice and brute EA? I have a feeling that, with modifiers accounted for, the two will compare rather closely.
I still think Ice would clearly come out ahead as a better set. Damage aura, -damage debuff aura, more consistent +HP buff. The defense numbers in EA would have to be higher to compare.
EA has its hurdles to overcome to be a "good" set in my eyes, and proliferation would mean the perfect chance for the devs to take a second look at it, just like with Electric Armor. EA needs a more consistent way to stay alive. Of the other defensive sets, Shields has +HP as a passive (along with resists) and Ice has a non crashing +HP power (along with -dmg). EA only has a very minimal heal, repel, and endurance drain (which ice also has). Conserve power is still nigh worthless to EA characters, and redundant with tanker APP. The endurance discount aura is a great idea, but I don't know if +end cost is something that can be given to enemies. It's likely it can, but it could be mighty powerful and hard to balance. Maybe repel can be made to have a taunt component, but it shouldn't be the only taunt aura for the set, much like the Dark Armor control auras.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Yes, please. Bring on the pretty!
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
If someone wants to roll an EA tank, let 'em.
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Wait... why would you hate to say I'm right!? |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hate to say it, but Rylas is right here.
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| Speaking of that, someone care to do the comparison between tanker ice and brute EA? I have a feeling that, with modifiers accounted for, the two will compare rather closely. |
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| EA has its hurdles to overcome to be a "good" set in my eyes, and proliferation would mean the perfect chance for the devs to take a second look at it, just like with Electric Armor. EA needs a more consistent way to stay alive. Of the other defensive sets, Shields has +HP as a passive (along with resists) and Ice has a non crashing +HP power (along with -dmg). EA only has a very minimal heal, repel, and endurance drain (which ice also has). Conserve power is still nigh worthless to EA characters, and redundant with tanker APP. |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Only because Narlok's a friend, and that was framed almost as an insult. I know I've pretty much said the same thing to other people, and I meant it as an insult.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
Wait... why would you hate to say I'm right!?
|
Nothing against you at all. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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While it is true that SD gets you quite close to the Soft cap (positionally) at a bit over 40% with CJ and Weave you're not sitting at it or over it without additional help. So as easy as SD is to get you soft capped, EA with tank modifiers would be that much easier. In my mind to easily. |
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Why?
Shield Defense makes it as easy as you describe to reach the defense soft cap. Without even looking at Ice Armor, I can guess it is also easy to soft cap. |
Again, not saying I wouldn't like to see it ported over to tanks.
I also like Dechs' ideas for changing it up for tanks.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Dechs, remember that Repel is only in the set for Stalkers. Brutes don't get that, and I'd imagine that it's the Brute version that would be adjusted and given to Tankers.
As such, only Conserve Power would need to be adjusted, and it would likely have to keep the End Discount part of it to preserve it's core function. However, I could see it being changed to a toggle end discount power with an aggro aura. Maybe to make it have a bit more survivability, give it a +Res per foe in range ability, or something like that.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Honestly, defense number-wise, I don't see a need for changing anything. Yes, you could soft-cap with CJ/Weave, but you're still not getting the HP or resist numbers that Shields provide. It's heal is dependent on the number of foes in range, so you're not guaranteed 50% heals all the time. It seems very comparable to Shields to me, if not at a slight disadvantage without a taunt aura. |
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
While it is true that SD gets you quite close to the Soft cap (positionally) at a bit over 40% with CJ and Weave you're not sitting at it or over it without additional help. So as easy as SD is to get you soft capped, EA with tank modifiers would be that much easier. In my mind to easily.
Again, not saying I wouldn't like to see it ported over to tanks. I also like Dechs' ideas for changing it up for tanks. |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Only because Narlok's a friend, and that was framed almost as an insult. I know I've pretty much said the same thing to other people, and I meant it as an insult.
Nothing against you at all. Apologies for the misunderstanding. |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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To be fair, I didn't really have any ideas beyond "add taunt to repel" and "make the heal better."|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I also like Dechs' ideas for changing it up for tanks.
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Rylas had the conserve power rework idea. I don't like the idea of replacing it with conductive aura, as that's more electric realm than energy. Even if you give it the same effects, call it absorption aura or something. Of course, that would be a lot of work, since they'd have to come up with a new animation.
The heal, while fast recharging, is still on a sixty second timer. It's auto hit, which is nice, but does about 5% heal per target. It may be useful in a mob, but absolutely worthless against an AV. Remember that this is a defense oriented set, the lucky shots are going to hurt. Even on a high recharge build, you're waiting probably 20 seconds to heal 5%.
I've got a DA tanker that can fill his health bar every 17 seconds, and every once in a while, even that's too long to wait.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Dechs, remember that Repel is only in the set for Stalkers. Brutes don't get that, and I'd imagine that it's the Brute version that would be adjusted and given to Tankers.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Wouldn't that be kind of counter productive, though? You're only taunting things in range of the repel, which is constantly forcing things away from the aura?
I can't see many Tankers liking a power that forces them to chase every mob they want to fight, constantly, for every attack.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Brutes don't have Ice Armor because a major component of Ice's mitigation is the -32% recharge in Chilling Embrace. This is bad for brutes because over the medium and long haul it slows down the attack rate of mobs by a third, which hampers building up Fury. The same thing is true for Ice Melee -- each of those attacks slows the target by 8-16%, which means overall Fury would build up only half as fast as as it does for other brutes.|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
Is it because brutes dont have ice ?
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Since the damage increase Fury provides is the primary attraction for brutes vs. tankers, anything that detracts from Fury is bad for brutes. No one would want such a set.
Could the devs modify Ice Armor and Ice Melee to make them work for brutes? Maybe. But it would be a major rework on the basic conceit of the sets' secondary effect. That means they go to the bottom of the list for power proliferation.
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Fury has been modified since that reason was given and would actually be just fine when working with a massive amount of slows. The modified Fury is a perfect reason to look at Ice for Brutes again, and this has been mentioned time and time again in the Brute forum.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
Brutes don't have Ice Armor because a major component of Ice's mitigation is the -32% recharge in Chilling Embrace. This is bad for brutes because over the medium and long haul it slows down the attack rate of mobs by a third, which hampers building up Fury. The same thing is true for Ice Melee -- each of those attacks slows the target by 8-16%, which means overall Fury would build up only half as fast as as it does for other brutes.
Since the damage increase Fury provides is the primary attraction for brutes vs. tankers, anything that detracts from Fury is bad for brutes. No one would want such a set. Could the devs modify Ice Armor and Ice Melee to make them work for brutes? Maybe. But it would be a major rework on the basic conceit of the sets' secondary effect. That means they go to the bottom of the list for power proliferation. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Change it a chance to knock up/down. mag 0.57 (standard KD mag)|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Wouldn't that be kind of counter productive, though? You're only taunting things in range of the repel, which is constantly forcing things away from the aura?
I can't see many Tankers liking a power that forces them to chase every mob they want to fight, constantly, for every attack. |
Maybe 50%, or less, 20%.
Give it a huge end cost. Something like 0.5/s (or the 0.78/s that stalkers repel has).
Add in a -end ticking at 5 - 10 end every 10 seconds, 5 being standard, 10 being with full end mod ED. or -recover (But there doesn't seem to be any -recover powers already existing, so that may be an issue).
But this in the place of Energy Cloak, thus solving the problem of "too much Def with tanker scaling" and it'll be selectable at level 12, meaning its between SD and Inv where the taunt aura becomes open.
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I can't believe I have to keep saying this after so long...|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Brutes don't have Ice Armor because a major component of Ice's mitigation is the -32% recharge in Chilling Embrace. This is bad for brutes because over the medium and long haul it slows down the attack rate of mobs by a third, which hampers building up Fury. The same thing is true for Ice Melee -- each of those attacks slows the target by 8-16%, which means overall Fury would build up only half as fast as as it does for other brutes.
Since the damage increase Fury provides is the primary attraction for brutes vs. tankers, anything that detracts from Fury is bad for brutes. No one would want such a set. Could the devs modify Ice Armor and Ice Melee to make them work for brutes? Maybe. But it would be a major rework on the basic conceit of the sets' secondary effect. That means they go to the bottom of the list for power proliferation. |
...Yes, ONE of the reasons that Brutes don't have Ice Armor is because of the -recharge effect. HOWEVER, that was not the only reason. It wasn't even on of the main reasons. If it were, then Dark Armor would never have been given to Brutes. One of the main reasons was because Ice Melee was absolute crap for Brutes back then. The lower damage powers, no true AoE, lengthy cast time on the 'big' hitter of the set, COMBINED with Ice Patch and the -recharge effect were what caused it. Ice Melee was the problem, not Ice Armor.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Is there a reason why tanks dont have energy aura ?
Is it because brutes dont have ice ?