So, about procs...
they're always more valuable, so I'm gonna go with the Mob and say "yes".
=D
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Am I right to believe that, all else being equal, a lower-level proc IO is always better than a higher-level one, or at the very least, no worse?
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Define "proc".
If you mean "chance for X" then no - they are always on as long as the power is available, regardless of level. If you intend to use them in a set bonus, then they need to be a level that fits the exmplaring rules. If you are just slotting a proc, use whatever level is least expensive imo.
If you mean continuous globals, then yes, level matters. You must be no more than 3 levels below the enhancement - however, these can be slotted into powers that are not available and you will still get the bonus.
I find this all extremely confusing and frankly I wish the devs had just said: You get the powers to the level you exemp to. You get all of the set bonuses and IOs that are slotted in all available powers. Enjoy.
It would have made life SO much easier...
A proc's level is completely irrelevant as long as you can slot it. Lower level procs are better in that they can be slotted by lower level characters, and are strictly not-worse.
But the distinction between procs and global bonuses is important, and is as Misaligned says (except that the Numina's unique is indeed a proc, not a global bonus). Also, some pieces with global bonuses also have standard enhancement components that do scale with level, such as the LotG and Steadfast Protection pieces. These you'll want at high level to get the maximum enhancement, unless you need them low for exemping.
If you mean continuous globals (like Numina for example) then yes, level matters. You must be no more than 3 levels below the enhancement - however, these can be slotted into powers that are not available and you will still get the bonus.
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The Uniques from Numina's Convalescence, Miracle, Regenerative Tissue, and Kismet all function like the "Chance to X" procs, except that they always fire (no roll). They function as long as you have the power they are slotted in, and stop if you lose access to (or turn off) the power that they are in.
If you had said Luck of the Gambler +Recharge, one of the -KB IOs, or the Steadfast Protection Unique, you'd be right though.
To the OP: There are only two reasons low-level procs are "better". One is for counting towards set bonuses. The other is for slotting them at an earlier level - your level 30 character cannot slot a level 50 Numina Unique. If the Unique is the only piece you're slotting, your 50 could slot a 30 or a 50, and never see the difference, no matter how low they exemplared.
EDIT: Damn you, Spruce, for typing faster than me, and damn you, phone, for having a tiny keyboard that makes me type slow!
@Roderick
Bzzt! Wrong!
The Uniques from Numina's Convalescence, Miracle, Regenerative Tissue, and Kismet all function like the "Chance to X" procs, except that they always fire (no roll). They function as long as you have the power they are slotted in, and stop if you lose access to (or turn off) the power that they are in. If you had said Luck of the Gambler +Recharge, one of the -KB IOs, or the Steadfast Protection Unique, you'd be right though. To the OP: There are only two reasons low-level procs are "better". One is for counting towards set bonuses. The other is for slotting them at an earlier level - your level 30 character cannot slot a level 50 Numina Unique. If the Unique is the only piece you're slotting, your 50 could slot a 30 or a 50, and never see the difference, no matter how low they exemplared. |
I will correct the Numina typo - even though I state GLOBAL in the sentence. Its late - sue me
Edit: Also, thank you spruce and roderic for both repeating what I said. Its nice to be affirmed
I will correct the Numina typo - even though I state GLOBAL in the sentence. Its late - sue me |
As you said, special IOs can be confusing. There are THREE types, not two, and knowing how to tell them apart lessens much of the confusion.
Procs: These always say "Chance to". Whenever the power they're in is used, they have a chance to trigger. In toggle powers and auto powers, they trigger when the power first activates and once every 10 seconds the power remains on. You must have access to the power the IO is in to get its benefit, and the level of the IO doesn't matter.
Proc120s: I can't remember the wording on these, but it's along the lines of "grants (whatever) for 120 sec when this power is used". In a click power, they grant the buff for 2 minutes. In a toggle or auto power they grant the buff for as long as the power is on, and turn off if the power does. Like procs, level does not matter, only whether you have access to the power or not.
Globals: These just say "grants (whatever)", with no mention of a chance or duration. In this case, the benefit is granted at all times, even if you haven't used the click power it's in, or if it's in a toggle that's turned off. If you exemplar below the minimum level to slot the IO (IO level - 3), it turns off, just like a set bonus would. If you exemplar low enough to lose the power it's slotted in, you keep the bonus, unless you also drop below the IO's minimum level. Global IOs that are also PVP or Purple IOs are exceptions to this rule, and always function, no matter how low you exemplar.
Remember these three (not so) simple rules, and all special IOs will be a lot less confusing.
And sorry if I sounded like a jerk in this post or the previous. Not my intention, but text tends to lack somewhat in inflection, even when using stupid smileys.
EDIT: The Kismet +6% Acc IO is a Proc 120 as well. Try the LotG +Recharge, or a -KB IO.
@Roderick
So long as the proc doesn't provide enhancement strength to an attribute, then yes. For example, Luck of the Gambler +7.5s also buff defense, so higher level ones are better than lower level ones.
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Then again, "for some reason" might be because they want to slot them on lowbies. I know I like to slot those asap.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Shh don't tell people that! For some reason lately they've been paying more for the lower level ones.
Then again, "for some reason" might be because they want to slot them on lowbies. I know I like to slot those asap. |
Have you looked at the difference in enhancement% on a level 50 versus a level 25? Even for defense, where small % changes can be a big deal near the softcap, once you actually calculate the difference in total enhancement (remember, people don't typically just slot the Global in meaningful +def powers) times the base defense of a power, I have found the difference in a level 25 versus a level 50 to almost always be ignorable.
FYI, the lower ones have typically, though not always, been more expensive for a very, very long time.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
As you said, special IOs can be confusing. There are THREE types, not two, and knowing how to tell them apart lessens much of the confusion.
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EDIT: The Kismet +6% Acc IO is a Proc 120 as well. Try the LotG +Recharge, or a -KB IO. |
I never slot level 50s of these. It's always more valuable to me to be able to exemplar down as far as possible and retain the +recharge bonus.
Have you looked at the difference in enhancement% on a level 50 versus a level 25? Even for defense, where small % changes can be a big deal near the softcap, once you actually calculate the difference in total enhancement (remember, people don't typically just slot the Global in meaningful +def powers) times the base defense of a power, I have found the difference in a level 25 versus a level 50 to almost always be ignorable. FYI, the lower ones have typically, though not always, been more expensive for a very, very long time. |
Edit: And in my own defense, the post I quoted did say "so higher levels ones are better" which helped me confuse myself.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Okay, that division into three categories helps.
So, -KB IO, I want to be within three levels of the IO, but it doesn't matter what level the power is.
Kismet +acc, I need to be able to use the power, but it doesn't matter what level the IO is (except in terms of whether or not I could slot it.)
Got it.
I was making a usage agnostic judgment when I stated that higher level LotG procs are always "better". Of course, everyone should judge the values of the items by how they intend to use them in the context of the goals of a build. Uberguy gave great reasons why the value of low level LotG's are higher than high levels ones to him. They aren't equivalent like, for example, the "chance to X" ones are numbers-wise, however.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I will always slot the lowest level I can get on a pure proc because it impacts set bonuses even when it doesn't affect the proc itself. From time to time I pull someone out on a respec, so even if character A doesn't need a level 20 because the rest of what is slotted is level 32, the next character I move it to might want the 20 for a critical set bonus. To me lower will always be better even on a proc.
On one's like the luck of the gambler, as stated there is a defence bonus built in that gives a reason to go higher. On that one I aim in the 30-35 range.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Am I right to believe that, all else being equal, a lower-level proc IO is always better than a higher-level one, or at the very least, no worse?