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A well-built Invulnerability tank has capped smashing/lethal resistances, softcapped defense to all types, and a strong self-heal. A well-built Granite tank has all that, plus near-capped energy resistances. Lord Recluse has several strong attacks that do Energy damage.|
Originally Posted by Shady Sam
I ask why granites can survive when INV cant?! with all those buffs there above and beyond the def and res cap and they drop like flies ... why can the 'magical' stone tank survive where others fall?
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The big difference between the two is that with a decently-fast team, a Granite tank can handle Lord Recluse unsupported, where an Invulnerability tank needs support (or a steady supply of inspirations) until the red and blue towers are down.
Invuln should be able to tank it fine. I regularly tank the STF with my Fire/SD Scrapper with Emp support.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Invuln can. I have tanked Lord Recluse on my invuln and got the master badge on another toon with someone else tanking on their invuln.|
Originally Posted by Shady Sam
I ask why granites can survive when INV cant?! with all those buffs there above and beyond the def and res cap and they drop like flies ... why can the 'magical' stone tank survive where others fall?
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I can only speculate that the invuln had something wrong with his build.... but can't explain how he did so well up to that point if he had build problems.
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I can agree the Emp may be partly to blame. Re-reading the original post, I see that he mentioned stacking the CM. LR doesn't have any holds, so that is unnecessary and just delaying their reaction for fast heals when needed... and I hope the Kin found time to SB them both for better results as well.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Going to blame the Emp for this one. No way an Invuln should be dying (barring something like Unstoppable crashing) while chewing T3 purples and having an Emp behind him.
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Well, I just finished an STF, the first I've tanked since GR hit and I did find that LR's AI has changed. Now he uses that channelgun end drain attack MUCH more often, and he uses it in melee... something he didn't do before. I went in with my normal insp loadout and got dropped three times; twice to end drain and once to stupidity by letting the purple drop while typing to the team.
I'd recommend tanking him now with a couple of big blues as well as purples and oranges; and some form of heal support is helpful. Once I figured out his new AI we didn't have problems; our Kin had Heal Other from the medicine pool and that plus Dull Pain were plenty. He's definitely more dangerous now than he used to be. I don't know if his AI changed with GR or with the last patch but he's certainly different now.
On the plus side he doesn't seem to summon Banes anymore until the Pet Nuke. I do begin to understand why the OP's tanker was having problems though, if he wasn't soft capped @ 75% while the blue tower was up then I'd bet he was getting end drained and that's why he was dropping.
Bottom line, with the AI change whether it's intentional or not Lord Recluse is considerably more dangerous now.
<edit>
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I'd say this is a key datum here, after I took Stone Fist off auto and put Taunt on auto LR didn't use the Channelgun again until we finished the towers; and even then he didn't hit me with it in the minute or so it took to kill him... we did have a good team. We finished the TF in 1:35 or so; if we hadn't had some false starts with LR's new AI we'd have cut that by about 15 minutes or so, I'll take the blame for dropping the ball there.
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Originally Posted by Master-Blade
I don't usually see him use the Channelguns in melee either, but the key is NOT to attack him. The more you attack him, the more likely he is to use more of his powers. If you simply stand there using Taunt only, you are more likely to get the same power over and over at longer intervals and have a much better chance at surviving.
In this case, I'm thinking it's likely the tank was using attacks on LR, causing him to get attacked back more often, and probably drained of his Endurance and getting toasted rather quickly. |
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Regarding CM: yeah, it's redundant more or less, because LR can't really stack mezzes quickly enough to break through a Tanker's base status protection, but they changed the animation in I18 so now it shares the Speed Boost animation (meaning the "oh I was in CM animation so couldn't do anything" excuse doesn't hold up quite as well as it used to).
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Originally Posted by Master-Blade
I can agree the Emp may be partly to blame. Re-reading the original post, I see that he mentioned stacking the CM. LR doesn't have any holds, so that is unnecessary and just delaying their reaction for fast heals when needed... and I hope the Kin found time to SB them both for better results as well.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I've found the same thing to be the case with my shield/fire. No problems unless he unloads with the End Drain, I had him chain it off on me 3 times in a row one night. lucky we had an off tank who held him off the group till I was retoggled.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Well, I just finished an STF, the first I've tanked since GR hit and I did find that LR's AI has changed. Now he uses that channelgun end drain attack MUCH more often, and he uses it in melee... something he didn't do before. I went in with my normal insp loadout and got dropped three times; twice to end drain and once to stupidity by letting the purple drop while typing to the team.
I'd recommend tanking him now with a couple of big blues as well as purples and oranges; and some form of heal support is helpful. Once I figured out his new AI we didn't have problems; our Kin had Heal Other from the medicine pool and that plus Dull Pain were plenty. He's definitely more dangerous now than he used to be. I don't know if his AI changed with GR or with the last patch but he's certainly different now. Bottom line, with the AI change whether it's intentional or not Lord Recluse is considerably more dangerous now. |
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Yeah Im now pretty sure it was a combination of a mediocre Inv tank, a very drowsy empath |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Well, I just finished an STF, the first I've tanked since GR hit and I did find that LR's AI has changed. Now he uses that channelgun end drain attack MUCH more often, and he uses it in melee... something he didn't do before. I went in with my normal insp loadout and got dropped three times; twice to end drain and once to stupidity by letting the purple drop while typing to the team.
I'd recommend tanking him now with a couple of big blues as well as purples and oranges; and some form of heal support is helpful. Once I figured out his new AI we didn't have problems; our Kin had Heal Other from the medicine pool and that plus Dull Pain were plenty. He's definitely more dangerous now than he used to be. I don't know if his AI changed with GR or with the last patch but he's certainly different now. On the plus side he doesn't seem to summon Banes anymore until the Pet Nuke. I do begin to understand why the OP's tanker was having problems though, if he wasn't soft capped @ 75% while the blue tower was up then I'd bet he was getting end drained and that's why he was dropping. Bottom line, with the AI change whether it's intentional or not Lord Recluse is considerably more dangerous now. <edit> I'd say this is a key datum here, after I took Stone Fist off auto and put Taunt on auto LR didn't use the Channelgun again until we finished the towers; and even then he didn't hit me with it in the minute or so it took to kill him... we did have a good team. We finished the TF in 1:35 or so; if we hadn't had some false starts with LR's new AI we'd have cut that by about 15 minutes or so, I'll take the blame for dropping the ball there. |
and a lack of understanding about LR apparent new AI ...Anywho since my OP i have since completed the STF on the same toon ((lvl 47-48 ill/rad troller no IOs)) Our tank was actually a fire/fire!
but we had 2x dark misma and 2x ill/rads so the debuffs made the first 4 missions a breeze 
The finale went very very well we managed to separately pull all 4 AVs and dispatch nw ... Despite not having the star and being only a troller i ended up running the show with the whole thing fresh in my mind from the day before ... i suggested that with no dedicated healer the 2 ill/rads should tank LR
and it worked GREAT! ... I had only SOs and was no where near Perma PA but the other ill/rad was close ... anyways we hovered over him and timed our PAs to overlap slightly so we didn't draw aggro ... a couple of mishaps saw us both drop once or twice but we never lost his attention and the team ripped apart the towers and we soon began the whomp on him [A note to add is you mentioned about him not summoning bane spiders as often? He literally didn't spawn his help until 3 seconds before his death for us! o.O' they were spawning as the reward option was on the screen ... maybe a little bug? who knows anyway i did it and ironically from my OP without a tank in the end lol
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I've done it several times tankless, two Ill/Rads does work well as long as you coordinate PA, you need to make sure that the next set drops a few seconds prior to the previous set expiring so that they've had a chance to gain aggro. If you just drop the next as the previous vanishes Bad Things can happen... it takes a few seconds for the new PA to gain aggro.|
Originally Posted by Shady Sam
Yeah Im now pretty sure it was a combination of a mediocre Inv tank, a very drowsy empath
and a lack of understanding about LR apparent new AI ...Anywho since my OP i have since completed the STF on the same toon ((lvl 47-48 ill/rad troller no IOs)) Our tank was actually a fire/fire! but we had 2x dark misma and 2x ill/rads so the debuffs made the first 4 missions a breeze The finale went very very well we managed to separately pull all 4 AVs and dispatch nw ... Despite not having the star and being only a troller i ended up running the show with the whole thing fresh in my mind from the day before ... i suggested that with no dedicated healer the 2 ill/rads should tank LR and it worked GREAT! ... I had only SOs and was no where near Perma PA but the other ill/rad was close ... anyways we hovered over him and timed our PAs to overlap slightly so we didn't draw aggro ... a couple of mishaps saw us both drop once or twice but we never lost his attention and the team ripped apart the towers and we soon began the whomp on him [A note to add is you mentioned about him not summoning bane spiders as often? He literally didn't spawn his help until 3 seconds before his death for us! o.O' they were spawning as the reward option was on the screen ... maybe a little bug? who knows anyway i did it and ironically from my OP without a tank in the end lol ] |
On the Bane summon he never spawned the whole time I was tanking him, something he used to do on occasion unless we anchored him with a debuff. His Pet Nuke goes off at around 20% HP and will continue to summon wave after wave until he dies.
Here's a little trick for dealing with repairmen and the pet nuke... if you have a Fire 'troller have them toss Bonfire on the tower, it'll KB and likely kill repairmen as they spawn. For LR, Bonfire sends his pets flying away as fast as he can summon them making them much less of an issue. Oh, I think LR has to be unheld in order to spawn, you probably got lucky with the purple triangles and they didn't kick in until late.
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But be very careful that they don't KB so far back that they get in range of a previously downed tower, because they'll heal it right back up. I find Rain of Fire is a better bet than Bonfire -- repairmen have such low HP that it takes them down very fast without the risk of KB into another tower.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Here's a little trick for dealing with repairmen and the pet nuke... if you have a Fire 'troller have them toss Bonfire on the tower, it'll KB and likely kill repairmen as they spawn.
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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It can happen, but so far I haven't seen it. Most of the time the Bonfire kills them as it KB's them, either immediately or when they run back in. Just keep an eye out for them and make sure they're all dead before moving on to the next tower. I've found as long as "their" tower is alive they'll ignore a destroyed tower near them to come back and heal their tower. It's once you've killed their tower that they look for any nearby to resurrect.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
But be very careful that they don't KB so far back that they get in range of a previously downed tower, because they'll heal it right back up. I find Rain of Fire is a better bet than Bonfire -- repairmen have such low HP that it takes them down very fast without the risk of KB into another tower.
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This may not be 100% accurate but I haven't seen any exceptions so far.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Going to blame the Emp for this one. No way an Invuln should be dying (barring something like Unstoppable crashing) while chewing T3 purples and having an Emp behind him.
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."