Glee (10/05/10): "Grilled Cheesus"
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-10-05 11:13 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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I do understand where you're coming from, in that there is an essential difference between the writers' voice and that of the characters and we should not expect teenagers to be the voice of truth or moderation (it would make a very dull drama for one). The show is not a political platform. The writers did demonstrate they had a good grasp of the subject in Sue's dialogue especially.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
I think that Atheism was treated well but that the pitying was a mark against people of faith who are insensitive to Atheists.
My interpretation at least.  |
However, the episode was otherwise quite muddled. If the writers consciously chose to highlight the errors of religious folk then they kinda failed on that front, since who in that episode learned that lesson? There were no notable repercussions in the pro-faith camp, meanwhile Kurt learned he should be more tolerant.
I hasten to add there were parts of the episode I did like. The Grilled Cheesus was quite inspired, Finn's whole plotline was well resolved, and there were some nice subtle moments - Kurt turning to acupuncture for help could be interpreted as a sign of his desperation - but, and maybe I'm just prickly about it, but the atheism stuff stopped me connecting with the weepy stuff at all, so the impact was a bit lost on me.
It was better than last week's ep, for sure.
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I didn't think of it that way. Good point.|
Originally Posted by _Echoo_
However, the episode was otherwise quite muddled. If the writers consciously chose to highlight the errors of religious folk then they kinda failed on that front, since who in that episode learned that lesson? There were no notable repercussions in the pro-faith camp, meanwhile Kurt learned he should be more tolerant.
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I hasten to add there were parts of the episode I did like. The Grilled Cheesus was quite inspired, Finn's whole plotline was well resolved, and there were some nice subtle moments - Kurt turning to acupuncture for help could be interpreted as a sign of his desperation - but, and maybe I'm just prickly about it, but the atheism stuff stopped me connecting with the weepy stuff at all, so the impact was a bit lost on me. It was better than last week's ep, for sure.
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And last week's episode was a disaster in my mind.
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Kurt is a villain?|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
On Twitter and my Facebook page, I've been seeing a couple people complain that Atheism was the domain of the villains of the show and that it was portrayed inaccurately. Anyone else see it that way?
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Actually overall I thought this was a pretty poor episode, probably because the religeous debate seemed entirely uneccesary for Glee, maybe just an excuse to use more faith driven songs.
Also they went for a few medical terms in the whole episode, and well, lets just say, its a shame their researchers messed it up...
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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The show used the typical "angry atheist" sterotype to an extreme. They couldn't have a character that examined the options and came to the logical conclusion that the idea of God was silly nonsense. No...it has to be portrayed as "God didn't give me what I want so I'm gonna be an Atheist, waaaaah!"|
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
The one thing I will say, and it was discussed on the AV Club's review of the episode, is that all the atheist were that way because something bad happened to them or the world was mean to them. Rather than the fact that some atheist simply, "logically" (I am not saying it one way or the other) just don't believe in God.
Kurt touched upon this with his teapot analogy, but for him, that was backtrack reasoning to feeling abandon by God after the death of his mom and the church's stance on his orientation. |
Then it compounded that sin by basically saying that's it's ok to disrespect the wishes of an Atheist as long as it makes the believers feel better. I seriously doubt that if a bunch of atheists went into the hospital room of a believer and started chanting "there is no God" that the moral of the story would be "Just shut up and let them have their way". However, it seems it's perfectly ok for a group of believers to totally disrespect an atheists wishes and invade his father's hospital room with their praying.
The characterization of Finn from lovable goof to drooling idiot, the poor song choices and performances didn't help the episode either.
I thought it was a great episode. OK the Yentl song was sort of forced at the beginning and I'm quickly getting tired by all of Rachel's choice of Streisand even though it makes a bit of sense, it's just to easy to fall back on.
And while it disrespects Kurt's wishes, we have no idea about his father's believes. Also it does no harm. None of his classmates are in a position to fly in House from Monday nights, or have a specialist in the family, sometimes all you can do is prey for someone to recover.
As I said, no harm. If there isn't a God or higher power, the others are just wasting their time and the results will be what will be. However if asking for help from a higher power or getting a flood of "positive waves" from the collective Gestalt consciousness of man wishing him well may have an effect, why not take it? What's the worst that could happen? It's not like they were asking Kurt to stop medical treatment. It's not like any were blaming his Dad's condition on Kurt's sexuality or Atheism.
That's the one problem I have with extreme Atheists. If they think that everyone who is religious are a bunch of superstitious yahoos then how does that affect them negatively? How is someone saying a "God Bless You" when they sneeze or Namaste when they greet them is so offensive that they go off on a rant rather than take the offer of good fortune?
This is starting to tread to closely to forbidden subject matter.
Again, I thought it was a good episode, the insertion and choice of songs fit the topic of the episode and I prefer episodes like this to ones like last weeks.
I hope they have a really good reason for using Rocky Horror songs in two weeks. However I doubt the club teamed up with the drama geeks to put on Rocky Horror. No high school would ever attempt that much less than one run by a vampire fearing Principal Figgins. Maybe a community theater group. Or the whole thing could be a fantasy episode that simply includes the cast, sort of like the end of season 4 of Bones.
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So if they had come into Kurt's dad's hospital room and said "He's like this because you aren't straight enough" that also does no harm right?|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I thought it was a great episode. OK the Yentl song was sort of forced at the beginning and I'm quickly getting tired by all of Rachel's choice of Streisand even though it makes a bit of sense, it's just to easy to fall back on.
And while it disrespects Kurt's wishes, we have no idea about his father's believes. Also it does no harm. None of his classmates are in a position to fly in House from Monday nights, or have a specialist in the family, sometimes all you can do is prey for someone to recover. As I said, no harm. If there isn't a God or higher power, the others are just wasting their time and the results will be what will be. However if asking for help from a higher power or getting a flood of "positive waves" from the collective Gestalt consciousness of man wishing him well may have an effect, why not take it? What's the worst that could happen? It's not like they were asking Kurt to stop medical treatment. It's not like any were blaming his Dad's condition on Kurt's sexuality or Atheism. That's the one problem I have with extreme Atheists. If they think that everyone who is religious are a bunch of superstitious yahoos then how does that affect them negatively? How is someone saying a "God Bless You" when they sneeze or Namaste when they greet them is so offensive that they go off on a rant rather than take the offer of good fortune? This is starting to tread to closely to forbidden subject matter. Again, I thought it was a good episode, the insertion and choice of songs fit the topic of the episode and I prefer episodes like this to ones like last weeks. I hope they have a really good reason for using Rocky Horror songs in two weeks. However I doubt the club teamed up with the drama geeks to put on Rocky Horror. No high school would ever attempt that much less than one run by a vampire fearing Principal Figgins. Maybe a community theater group. Or the whole thing could be a fantasy episode that simply includes the cast, sort of like the end of season 4 of Bones. |
Because it's the exact same thing. It's disrespectful, insulting and downright disgusting behavior. It's saying that Kurt's values, beliefs and desires are insignificant and not worth honoring when it comes to his ill father. It's saying that our beliefs are better because they have magical healing powers so we're just going to trample all over what you want, because we're doing it out of the best of intentions, really.
Just because you smile and tell me it's raining while you piss in my face doesn't make it anything other than you pissing in my face.
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Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
So if they had come into Kurt's dad's hospital room and said "He's like this because you aren't straight enough" that also does no harm right?
Because it's the exact same thing. It's disrespectful, insulting and downright disgusting behavior. It's saying that Kurt's values, beliefs and desires are insignificant and not worth honoring when it comes to his ill father. It's saying that our beliefs are better because they have magical healing powers so we're just going to trample all over what you want, because we're doing it out of the best of intentions, really. Just because you smile and tell me it's raining while you piss in my face doesn't make it anything other than you pissing in my face. |
Hmm, Interesting viewpoint. I actually thought it was something very touching of the group to do as a way to show that they really wanted to help a friend. I didn't take it as them trying to push their beliefs on Kurt or his dad but more of friends using whatever they believe in to give positive energy to help his dad get better. I mean, they even threw in a song with the prayers which for glee-kids makes sense as a "this make it better!" choice. Was it right they did it without his permission, nope. But if we are going to pretend they are HS kids then the impulse to help might have gone farther than the fore-thought.
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And if the moral of the story was "They're just kids and didn't respect each other's beliefs but learned a valuable lesson about not pushing your faith onto others" that would be one thing. But when the moral is "Non believers should just STFU and let the religious people disrespect your beliefs because they are just trying to be nice, you angry old athiest", which is what was presented, then it's a different story.|
Originally Posted by NiVra
Hmm, Interesting viewpoint. I actually thought it was something very touching of the group to do as a way to show that they really wanted to help a friend. I didn't take it as them trying to push their beliefs on Kurt or his dad but more of friends using whatever they believe in to give positive energy to help his dad get better. I mean, they even threw in a song with the prayers which for glee-kids makes sense as a "this make it better!" choice. Was it right they did it without his permission, nope. But if we are going to pretend they are HS kids then the impulse to help might have gone farther than the fore-thought.
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Of course, if they had written the show with an ounce of sense and had the girls either praying for him in their own homes, or getting together in some other place and doing it, it would be one thing. It's the part where they invaded the hospital room when Kurt wasn't even there after he'd made his wishes clear that's the problem.
I'm not a fan of the show and only watch when my wife wants to watch something together. I'll have to admit that the Grilled Cheesus stuff had me rolling though. Great, weird, fun.
@Joshua.
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Invalid assumption. What if there is a Higher Power (or Powers) who exist and directly intervene in human affairs, but hate when people pray to the non-existent gods of humanity? In this case prayer could easily make things much, much worse.| As I said, no harm. If there isn't a God or higher power, the others are just wasting their time and the results will be what will be. However if asking for help from a higher power or getting a flood of "positive waves" from the collective Gestalt consciousness of man wishing him well may have an effect, why not take it? What's the worst that could happen? It's not like they were asking Kurt to stop medical treatment. It's not like any were blaming his Dad's condition on Kurt's sexuality or Atheism. |
I'm just happy Kurt didn't come to Cheesus at the end of the episode, but I agree with those who say it had a theist slant.
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For much of the episode, characters were just pitying Kurt instead of trying to understand him. As if being non-religious is a barrier to either grieving or enjoying life. In a show where most religions are treated respectfully, to put such a huge spotlight on atheism only to pity it, is not respectful and automatically makes it appear to be the least worthy viewpoint.
I felt they pretty much portrayed atheism as a character fault, which is rather patronising and wrong and I found very grating. I mean, Kurt's not supposed to be a perfect ambassador for atheism but everyone else in the room is just shouting him down for voicing a different view.
I think that Atheism was treated well but that the pitying was a mark against people of faith who are insensitive to Atheists.
My interpretation at least.