Ethical choices I've wanted to make but couldn't

I've found a few people who agree with me that the writing in Praetoria, especially around the ethical choices the game 'allows' you to make, is pretty weak. I've also found a current of feelings that most of the morality missions are pretty weak, with the villainous mission being outright stupid.

Frostfire as the god of all that's good and right with the world? Seriously?

Unless you're playing pure 'Chaotic Evil' or 'Lawful Stupid', MOST of the morality choices introduced with Issue 18 put you on a narrow set of rails with so little room for personal character development that it's frustrating. Especially in Praetoria, the 'Shades of Grey' offered are 'Black', 'Off-Black', 'Mostly Black', 'Really ******* death black slaughter tango', '#000000', and 'Fuschia'.

But I've tread here before. Rather than more criticism of the writing, I'll offer situations where the ethical choice I *wanted* to make was simply unavailable:

In 'Acts of Desperation', the first arc that has you fighting Resistance on a suicide mission, I wanted the option to explicitly knock out Resistance Leader Ford before he tried to kill himself.

In 'My Choice', given by Ricochet, you're given the choice to help or not help Rothstein, who's suicidal and doesn't want help, escape the gas bombs. You're not allowed however, to knock out or drag out the PPD before gassing the facility, which is what I'd have chosen to do.

There are several places in Hatchet's arc that ask you go in to the 'Super-black-slaughter-fest-Kill-o-Rama-3000' territory. Feeding live humans to the ghouls is a good example. Yet, despite the horror of the arc, there's NO PLACE AT ALL to turn around and bust Hatchet, Vagabond, or Wardog for what they're doing. This would make an ideal place to drop out of the Resistance and join the Loyalists, but there's no choice given.

In the finale of Cleopatra's arc, you're given the choice to kill either Cleopatra or Washington. There's no option to knock both of them out, which is what I'd have liked.

In Interrogator Kang's arc, you're sent to arrest Cutter Cain, only to find out his true identity and motives. This would make an ideal time for players to defect from the Loyalists to the Resistance, but the choice to let Cutter Cain go free to continue his work is never given.

What ethical choices would you have made in the game if it let you?

Well let's see...

I'd have attacked and likely killed Praetor Tilman and Praetor Duncan... Freed the Seers, and hunted the Resistance to near extinction? Freed Penny Yin after I took down her father and his criminal friends...

That's about it. The only things my Loyalist Responsible regrets. Being unable to take out those two monsters.... Mayyyyyybe Praetor Barry, too.

-Rachel-

Ugh the OP is like Diet Golden Girl soda. All the one way morality and total lack of harsh reality's.

*waits for Golden Cole to show up*

>.>

<.<

Personally, the more I go about the game, the more I realise what bothers me in Praetoria - it's not actually a middle ground, not in the way I expected it to be. Not in the way a middle ground should be. Let me explain:

Ever since City of Villains rolled around, the game has been mired in this concept of "belonging." In City of Villains, you "belong" to Arachnos, or so the storyline insists. Then I10 rolled out, and you got to "belong" to Vanguard, too. Then I11 rolled out, and you got to "belong" to the Midnight Club, as well. And now that I18 rolled out, you get to belong either to the resistance or the loyalists. All of the game's "moral" choices are, as a point of fact, political choices of support and membership. The very few actually moral choices there are - i.e. the ones that don't change your alignment - happen in-missions and don't seem to be treated as such.

The more I play, the more I realise there is a path squarely missing, and it's the path I've been ranting about not having pretty much since Launch of I6 - it's the path of NOT siding with anyone by means of allegiance. This simply isn't there in the way it exists in City of Heroes. In City of Heroes, at least in the older content, you are a hero, and that's pretty much the extent of the story written for you. You find random people who need help, work with them to do good, and then move on your way. You're not a member of the Avengers, you're not a member of the Justice League, you're not a member of the police force. You are just a hero travelling the city, doing good. No more, no less.

Recently, I've found myself wanting a third option, and being frustrated at the game's obsession with duality and only ever offering me two. I am in the process of designing a character who is neither good nor evil, but is more an elemental force which exists to preserve balance. However, the game only ever offers me choices between good and evil, even if sometimes which is which is subject to interpretation. What the game does not offer me, however, is the option to be neutral. I don't want to save people or punish the wicked, I don't want to kill people or make money. I just want to be left alone. Or alternately, I may just want to find ever more glorious fights to take part in, I may want to bide my time until I achieve my perfect form, I may want to build a stargate and escape to another world...

The moral and ethical choice that I want to make but am never given is to not side with anyone and be neutral. If that makes me everybody's enemy, then so be it. I thought this is what Praetoria would be. Instead it ended up once again mired in the ethics of good and evil, just twisted around and around. Why are neutral characters always so shafted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Personally, I agree with you in general, but not in specific.

I would love a few more choices as well, but the reality is, you can't be given some choices. The game simply won't support it. You gotta have conflict, and there can't be an infinite number of options given for how that conflict will work.

I didn't like feeding the guys to the monsters, so I didn't. I abandoned that mission and went off to find teams to work with that were doing different missions. Eventually, I got too high a level and just went to Atlas Park rather than mess with the whole thing. At least with one character.

I've got 2 others, one resistance, and one loyalist, who would feed people to ghouls with gusto. I just made two evil dastards so I could check out the negative mission arcs. Got a couple of boy scout characters doing good guy arcs.

Some better choices would be nice, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about when we will get them. LOL.

"Personally, the more I go about the game, the more I realise what bothers me in Praetoria - it's not actually a middle ground, not in the way I expected it to be. Not in the way a middle ground should be."

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You know, this guy has a point! I was hoping to see some middle ground options as well. I was somewhat disappointed that Pretoria only went up to L20. I was hoping for some higher level missions and zones with some options not offered to villains and heroes. Maybe an elemental zone or collection of zones, which don't deal with protecting or destroying, but simply surviving. A world where you fight for personal issues chosen by yourself, perhaps offering contacts who run the deck from good to evil to total chaos. Want to fight to train yourself to be all you can be? Talk to Bruce. Want to fight for the glory of fighting? Talk to Hogarth. Want to save kittens from trees and help old ladies across the street? Talk to Melvin.

Want to do all three randomly? I don't see why you couldn't!

Anyway, the Neutral Zone would be an option for those who don't want to make any political or moral choices if they don't want to, or who want to just shake things up and try some weird stuff.

I thnk that would be fun. Really.

...since when do heroes work for Longbow? The only references to it in the regular CoH contact missions I can think of are the clash with Vanguard and a brainwashed field trainer in one Indigo's mission.

An open letter to NCsoft

There's a problem with going your own way in a storyline...

Nobody's paying attention to you.

In this world, we have Longbow and Arachnos. They're the ones that the media are paying attention to, like G.I. Joe and Cobra. Now, if you want to start up your own criminal organization or your own superhero group, or even just work for Vanguard or the Midnighters, not a lot of people are going to care.

In the game's story, Vanguard are still distrusted, largely because of their willingness to "hire mercenaries" (You; they're hiring You). It doesn't matter your background, if Vanguard believes you have power or resources that can help them (and this is the "public opinion" of them), they will say whatever they have to to make you feel special when you sign on. Considering the fact that you have to take a tiered approach to meeting the major players again after the introductions are made, one could say there's merit to such slander/libel, but that's a discussion better left at another time (like when Vanguard was first introduced).

The Midnighters are a different concept. They're not public. That goes for Ouroboros, too. Sure, a lot (A WHOLE LOT) of meta humans know about the Menders and the Midnighters... But the average citizen has never heard of them or thinks the Midnighters are gone the way of the Dodo. Working exclusively for either means you're not doing anything that the public is paying attention to. Even if you are noticed, you're just another hero or another villain, either capering about like some other super powered renegade or you're doing work for Longbow/Freedom Corps or Arachnos.

Now... If you want to just "Be Yourself," I recommend hitting the Police Band or the Newspaper and start "keeping a journal." Write out your characters' adventures, see how they're making sense of this crazy world. Otherwise, you'll just be playing the game's story, with your character locked in being attached to one group or another, with the rest of their decisions having little real impact.

Moo, Sam, you two are some of the most eloquent writers on these boards. If you have a story to tell, please let us know.