the reason I;m asking is that my Brute is a Fire/Shield and that set is also availbe to scrappers so obviously I want the better AT for that combo
Scrappers do more damage, get martial arts, and criticals are so very satisfying.
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do they? I would think having +100% damge across the board beats 10% crit. Having 50% dmg across the board probably beat it imo.
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Originally Posted by Starflier
Scrappers do more damage, get martial arts, and criticals are so very satisfying.
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Well Fire is better for brutes than scrappers, or so I hear, due to the DoT being affected by Fury but not Criticals.
Scrappers also start off dealing a lot more damage than brutes. Brutes need all that Fury to catch up.
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What?
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Originally Posted by Dz131
As well as Frenzy makes them start with 100% fury on demand
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
What?
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??
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What is Frezny, and how are brutes getting 100% Fury? If brutes are at 85% Fury they are doing really well.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
??
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Alignment_Powers#Frenzy|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
What is Frezny, and how are brutes getting 100% Fury? If brutes are at 85% Fury they are doing really well.
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its the villian alignemnt power
Frenzy is a new temp power you get for running alignment missions.
Check out Paragonwiki.com for all the new temps.
As for the OP's question, I think
This thread
sums it up best.
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It's on a 6 minute timer. Scrappers have a way to boost their damage as well, so it's pretty much a wash.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
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EDIT: To the OP, you pick a brute when you want a nice mix of scrapper damage, but tank toughness.
Let's compare 10% crit to Fury.
Scrappers have 1.125 melee scale and Brutes have 0.75. Fury adds 2% damage per point, 10% Crit adds a flat 10% to damage. Assume both have 95% Damage slotted in their powers. How much Fury does a Brute need to equal Scrapper damage?
1.1 * 1.125 * (1 + 0.95) = 0.75 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.02 * Fury)
(1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75 = 1.95 + 0.02 * Fury
0.02 * Fury = ((1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75) - 1.95
Fury = 50 * (((1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75) - 1.95)
Fury = 63.375%
So, a Brute needs 63% Fury to equal a Scrapper's damage output if they are using otherwise a completely identical build. In teams Scrappers often do better damage because they benefit a lot more from damage buffs and they don't need a steamrolling team to keep Fury up.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
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Depending on what kind target it is and what attack the scrapper is using.
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
10% Crit adds a flat 10% to damage.
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Just to nitpick a little, I find that I actually have a harder time keeping up Fury on a Team that is steamrolling because I dont' have as much time to fight things to build Fury, and because enemies are dying to fast to hit me enough to give me fury. You can only be the first one to the spawn so often, after all. |
Originally Posted by DSorrow
So, a Brute needs 63% Fury to equal a Scrapper's damage output if they are using otherwise a completely identical build. In teams Scrappers often do better damage because they benefit a lot more from damage buffs and they don't need a steamrolling team to keep Fury up.
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Unless by "Steamrolling" you meant "Not standing around after every spawn, recounting the days past adventures fondly.", in which case nevermind~
Brutes tend to do better on... Not as good teams because they have time enough to build Fury so they can make up the difference on teams that are lagging behind.
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oh ok that makes since I thought Brutes and scraps have the same base damage with skills. BUt I guess they dont
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
Let's compare 10% crit to Fury.
Scrappers have 1.125 melee scale and Brutes have 0.75. Fury adds 2% damage per point, 10% Crit adds a flat 10% to damage. Assume both have 95% Damage slotted in their powers. How much Fury does a Brute need to equal Scrapper damage? 1.1 * 1.125 * (1 + 0.95) = 0.75 * (1 + 0.95 + 0.02 * Fury) (1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75 = 1.95 + 0.02 * Fury 0.02 * Fury = ((1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75) - 1.95 Fury = 50 * (((1.1 * 1.125 * 1.95) / 0.75) - 1.95) Fury = 63.375% So, a Brute needs 63% Fury to equal a Scrapper's damage output if they are using otherwise a completely identical build. In teams Scrappers often do better damage because they benefit a lot more from damage buffs and they don't need a steamrolling team to keep Fury up. |
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Everything above minion, which are the enemies a Scrapper is concerned about. Your average Scrapper is going to obliterate a minion so quickly that he won't have TIME to critical.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Depending on what kind target it is and what attack the scrapper is using.
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Some of the higher Tier Scrapper/Stalker attacks have a higher chance of critical as well, such as Eagles Claw, Head-Splitter, or Eviscerate. That, however, would mostly need to be calculated in a case by case basis and is more concerned with DPS chains than it is average expected performance.
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No. Nor do they have the same damage cap as of I18. |
Originally Posted by Dz131
oh ok that makes since I thought Brutes and scraps have the same base damage with skills. BUt I guess they dont
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Brutes damage cap as of I18 is now 775% while Scrappers Damage cap is 500%. The scrappers Critical abilities mean that they'll be doing 500% x2, or 1000%, damage on a critical strike. Granted, players will rarely ever see these combat figures without a kinetics along that is pumping fully saturated fulcrum-shifts.
The intent is that when running in what is referred to as the extremes, the melee classes line up as follows:
- scrappers do the most sustained damage of the melee classes with the lowest sustained survivability
- stalkers do the most burst damage of the melee classes with the lowest survivability
- brutes do less burst damage than scrappers, but are more survivable
- tanks do less damage than everybody else, but are the most survivable
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If you're looking at that combo specifically, bear in mind that: |
Originally Posted by Dz131
the reason I;m asking is that my Brute is a Fire/Shield and that set is also availbe to scrappers so obviously I want the better AT for that combo
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Fire melee not being affected by Scrapper Criticals results in about a 2-2.5% loss of damage - Something I'd like fixed, but not crippling. Plus, it's a downside that in this particular combination is more than made up for by the fact that Shield Defense's Against All Odds uses the greater multiplier for damage buffs that Scrappers possess, and is multiplying the Scrapper's far better base damage scalar.
Add in how much stronger Scrapper Shield Charge becomes because pseudopet damage is capped at 400% damage regardless of AT, and - again - that Scrappers have a far better scalar; It makes Scrappers an extremely strong choice in this regard. Even Tankers get more mileage out of Against all Odds than Brutes, and potentially out of Shield Charge if there's a Kin on the team.
Additionally, when touting the strength of Frenzy for Brutes, one need compare it to Frenzy for Scrappers, which in their case provides +60% damage. Comparing the scalars (1.125 for Scrappers, 0.75 for Brutes) You would need +90% damage to come up with the equivalent in flat out damage for Brutes - the equivalent of 45 points of Fury.
So is the ability to max out that Fury bar for a brief moment every six minutes, unadjustable, really stronger than the ability to half-Buildup for 30 seconds as frequently on a much stronger base damage scalar? I think that it's nice that the villainous Brute player has a tool that lets them be angry from a standing start, but given that most Brutes assume they can operate at 60-70% Fury most of the time and the brief duration of the boost, the Scrapper version seems stronger.
Why Scrappers? Well, for me I choose Scrappers because they are innately fierce fighters. They can take care of themselves very well, but "taking care of others" is their primary focus. Sometimes a Scrapper will be fighting so violently that those glorious orange letters pop up above the enemy. CRITICAL, signaling only one thing: double damage! 
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If I recall correctly, Scrappers have a BASE damage for melee set at 1.0 or something like that, Tankers at 0.65 and Brutes at 0.60 (though the exact decimal may be wrong).
Sure, Bruted have a damage cap of 850%, but that's 850% of 0.60. Scrappers with their 400-500% (not really sure if it's 400 or 500) damage cap are boosting 1.0.
At absolute top end, Brutes pull ahead as long as their fury is full and they either pop red skittles a lot or have a pocket kin and a whole pile of set bonuses.
Scrappers are far more consistent not even counting in critical hits. They may not have as high a top end, but they also don't need as much help to get there.
Using the same powers, un-buffed, no insps or anything: Scrapper does more damage.
Same powers, buffed, all in: Brutes do more damage.
Why scrappers? Preference, duh. If you prefer scrappers, play them. If you prefer brutes, play them. They're both good, both fun to play and I loved both enough to get to 50 with them. (Winza Nakimaru, DM/REG/DRK scrapper, Tarnak, DM/DA/SOUL brute both on Justice)
Melee modifier is 1.125 for Scrappers.
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Any target where DPS matters. That is, anything above a minion. My Scrappers can generally wipe out minions with two AoEs with or without critting.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Depending on what kind target it is and what attack the scrapper is using.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Just to nitpick a little, I find that I actually have a harder time keeping up Fury on a Team that is steamrolling because I dont' have as much time to fight things to build Fury, and because enemies are dying to fast to hit me enough to give me fury. You can only be the first one to the spawn so often, after all.
Unless by "Steamrolling" you meant "Not standing around after every spawn, recounting the days past adventures fondly.", in which case nevermind~ Brutes tend to do better on... Not as good teams because they have time enough to build Fury so they can make up the difference on teams that are lagging behind. |
Anyways, at their respective damage caps, a Scrapper will do more damage than a Brute. That means in a team where you have a Kin or loads of other sources of +Dam, a Scrapper will pull ahead. Then again, a Brute will pull ahead on survivability due to higher HP and Resistance caps.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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The I18 changes have made it so that your first statement is normally true, although with Fury a Brute can pull ahead in some very rare cases. The I18 changes have made you second statement untrue. Buffed scrappers now out damage buffed Brutes, which makes sense since buffed Brutes have more survivability than buffed scrappers.
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Originally Posted by Winza
Using the same powers, un-buffed, no insps or anything: Scrapper does more damage.
Same powers, buffed, all in: Brutes do more damage. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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1450 damage to everyone.
No worrying about fury or other business.
I started a brute to level along side my MA scrapper. And it seems to me they play basically the same. Except Brute has Fury which past aroudn 50-60% makes all their attacks do like 100% more damage whre as scraps only gets like 10% crit chance.
ALso brute have higher HP and sometimes more mitigation. As well as Frenzy makes them start with 100% fury on demand, so no building up so to speak.
It seems to me Brutes are strictly better than scrappers, I'm just wondring is there anythign I missed that actually scrappers has that brutes dont?