I think that elec 3 isn't the best blapper selection.
Ice/Elec/Force is probably your best bet with Energy/Elec/Force a close second.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Ummm, why do you think that? At least explain your reasoning. If you think there are better tools elsewhere, go ahead. It's still a little weird to just throw this out there when he said he was trying for that build and just wanting to know what kind of defense to go for.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
I think that elec 3 isn't the best blapper selection.
Ice/Elec/Force is probably your best bet with Energy/Elec/Force a close second. |
E^3 can work pretty well as a Blapper, in my experience. Lot of holds to work with for bosses, and you can end drain mobs quite easily with good slotting. I went for mostly S/L on mine, since I was going to be up close so much. I do wonder if he had to deal with mezzes more often (as a lot of those are ranged and won't necessarily have a S/L component), but he could usually hold a mezzer as he was going in, end drain everyone, and not have to worry for the rest of the fight.
Mine has in the low 30s for S/L, as do most of my blasters (whether it's ranged, S/L, etc.). Worked well enough to even solo EBs like Nosferatu up close (though he used inspirations, obviously). If you can fit in some Ranged defense, go for it, but my build was a little tight. I wanted to get the defense in, recharge, and some procs. I think most of mine was from Weave, Combat Jumping, and the Steadfast +def, which isn't that much.
Play around with builds in Mid's, but about 20% defense to something is noticeable (though it helps sooner, you still feel like you get hit more before that), and 30ish is great. You can up it to the cap with an inspiration and you don't need that most of the time. Especially with drained mobs.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Dear Miladys Knight. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
I think that elec 3 isn't the best blapper selection.
Ice/Elec/Force is probably your best bet with Energy/Elec/Force a close second. |
When someone says, 'Im going X set, help me with X set" DON'T TELL THEM TO GO ANOTHER SET!
Seriously, it's just rude and dooshy. Elec^3 works just fine.
Now to the OP, since you are going Elec APP, I might not build for S/L defense. S/L defense is very easy to softcap, but only if you go Ice or Mace for your Epic. With an Elec Epic, I would consider building for Ranged Defense. Even as a Blapper, ranged damage is the biggest form of incoming damage to you, especially if you kite around and leap in and out of melee.
Ranged defense will also protect you from most forms of Mezzes.
Quote:
Or at least answer the question in addition to outside suggestions.|
Originally Posted by Candlestick
Dear Miladys Knight.
When someone says, 'Im going X set, help me with X set" DON'T TELL THEM TO GO ANOTHER SET! Seriously, it's just rude and dooshy. Elec^3 works just fine. Now to the OP, since you are going Elec APP, I might not build for S/L defense. S/L defense is very easy to softcap, but only if you go Ice or Mace for your Epic. With an Elec Epic, I would consider building for Ranged Defense. Even as a Blapper, ranged damage is the biggest form of incoming damage to you, especially if you kite around and leap in and out of melee. Ranged defense will also protect you from most forms of Mezzes. |
Like Grey said, 30's is a good idea. I would shoot for 32.5% smashing and lethal defense, so if you pop a small purple you'll be softcapped. The reason I wouldn't just go for Ranged is because if you're on a team, even kiting you'll run into a lot of AoE, and once a Chief Soldier pulls out that sword he's going to mack you unless you have lethal or melee defense.
OTOH with Tough and the Epic shield you might not feel a huge need for S/L defense.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
With Elec you get a single hold and in order to sap effectively you have to be in melee/close range before the spawns damage is mitigated.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Ummm, why do you think that? At least explain your reasoning. If you think there are better tools elsewhere, go ahead. It's still a little weird to just throw this out there when he said he was trying for that build and just wanting to know what kind of defense to go for.
E^3 can work pretty well as a Blapper, in my experience. Lot of holds to work with for bosses, and you can end drain mobs quite easily with good slotting. I went for mostly S/L on mine, since I was going to be up close so much. I do wonder if he had to deal with mezzes more often (as a lot of those are ranged and won't necessarily have a S/L component), but he could usually hold a mezzer as he was going in, end drain everyone, and not have to worry for the rest of the fight. Mine has in the low 30s for S/L, as do most of my blasters (whether it's ranged, S/L, etc.). Worked well enough to even solo EBs like Nosferatu up close (though he used inspirations, obviously). If you can fit in some Ranged defense, go for it, but my build was a little tight. I wanted to get the defense in, recharge, and some procs. I think most of mine was from Weave, Combat Jumping, and the Steadfast +def, which isn't that much. Play around with builds in Mid's, but about 20% defense to something is noticeable (though it helps sooner, you still feel like you get hit more before that), and 30ish is great. You can up it to the cap with an inspiration and you don't need that most of the time. Especially with drained mobs. |
With Ice you get 2 holds and you can -rech/-move cap the spawn before entering melee/close range.
With energy/elec you can keep all of the spawn off of you except for one or 2 at a time by using AoE KB powers.
If you go Elec/Elec you will (as other posters above have reccomended) NEED high levels of S/L or ranged defense for the level of survival you are after. Ice or energy as a primary allows you to go with much lower levels of defense slotting and still survive.
My Ice/Elec runs about 22% ranged defense and my energy/elec runs 11% with about the same level of survivability as my (now deleted) Elec/elec or my elec/energy (which needs around 33% ranged defense).
@Candle
I was answering the only question the OP asked:
Quote:
| What does the blapper know hows think? |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Yeah, it's a tough call. On the one hand, I noticed how much easier it was for my E^3 to stick up close with mobs (whereas my Blasters with mostly ranged defense notice when something gets in melee range). But mezzes are mostly ranged, too. Holding the common mezzers is a good idea to get around this problem, as I noted, however. You can go for the softcap if you want, but I haven't found it to be all that necessary on my Blasters. I have to give up too much to get it in the builds I've messed with on Mid's, too. |
Originally Posted by Candlestick
Dear Miladys Knight.
When someone says, 'Im going X set, help me with X set" DON'T TELL THEM TO GO ANOTHER SET! Seriously, it's just rude and dooshy. Elec^3 works just fine. Now to the OP, since you are going Elec APP, I might not build for S/L defense. S/L defense is very easy to softcap, but only if you go Ice or Mace for your Epic. With an Elec Epic, I would consider building for Ranged Defense. Even as a Blapper, ranged damage is the biggest form of incoming damage to you, especially if you kite around and leap in and out of melee. Ranged defense will also protect you from most forms of Mezzes. |
I did put together a build for my Dual Pistols/EM that gets 30% defense to ranged and 15% to melee and aoe to take more advantage of the temporary buff from using Hail of Bullets, while still fitting in a lot of procs and recharge.
Oh, I should note that most of my Blasters, and especially the Blapper types grab Hurdle and Combat Jumping. You can hop in and out of combat very nicely with this, and it's a good approach for an E^3, I think.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
With Elec you get a single hold and in order to sap effectively you have to be in melee/close range before the spawns damage is mitigated.
With Ice you get 2 holds and you can -rech/-move cap the spawn before entering melee/close range. With energy/elec you can keep all of the spawn off of you except for one or 2 at a time by using AoE KB powers. If you go Elec/Elec you will (as other posters above have reccomended) NEED high levels of S/L or ranged defense for the level of survival you are after. Ice or energy as a primary allows you to go with much lower levels of defense slotting and still survive. My Ice/Elec runs about 22% ranged defense and my energy/elec runs 11% with about the same level of survivability as my (now deleted) Elec/elec or my elec/energy (which needs around 33% ranged defense). @Candle I was answering the only question the OP asked: |
He was asking the "blapper know hows" what they thought he needed for defense for that build, too.Your follow up helps, though. I personally prefer the 30% range on all of my guys, as it gets me to a noticeable level of survivability even if my damage, holds, etc., go south. Interesting to hear how it works on other builds that I haven't tried, though. I don't really think of 30% defense to ranged to be that hard or expensive to do, though. S/L on the other hand... can hurt a bit. Kinetic Melee is painfully expensive in merits and influence to get, though my E^3 got all his and a Numina's Proc by running a lot of story arcs and most of the TFs blueside. With merits, it's not that "expensive" other than time on content, but that should hopefully be fun anyway.
You don't need only Kinetic Melees or to tap into Ancillaries for S/L, either. Weave, Combat Jumping, and even Maneuvers can provide a decent base, though now you can grab Scorpion Shield and not have to look like an ice cube if you want to tap into the ancillaries (and you don't mind going villainside for it).
For the other stuff, if you're going to blap, you need to be able to move fast anyway. So I don't find that part of going E^3 that bad. Also, you can get a third ranged hold from your ancillary, so I don't find the melee hold to be an issue (it also does quite good damage). Tesla Cage recharging so fast also makes this easy.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Ok good advice so I was looking in mids and I managed to work a build out with 35% range def and 42% smash/lethal res. Recharge bonus aint the greatest but I enough attacks for that not to matter, maybe to many attacks here's the build.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1427;693;1386;HEX;| |78DA9D93D94F135114C6EFB4534ADB29A560174A11419002D252138D4BE28E09862| |6040D4F2A19CAD80E4EA64D3B10F1C93FC027E3FA805B5C9FDDE37FE4F2E8FA329E| |7BBE69C5F8E6247CBF7BBF7BCFE1DCD37B4B974F6A425C3D2294E8094B6F36978E9| |33A462350D22B6659048510839EB5B4A0DB1563253F631965A76196750B9B73ADF5| |336BF57AADE1B43798CEC65249B7CDFA9AA53B66CD8ECFDA55A361D84EBE35D0E66| |B352B3F67E875D3AE6072CA746CA3D98C7A934AD5A1A538CF66ED75B3692E9B1625| |4ECDD4CDF2D6524A5CC3469A0A1EA7BFBC687D6E403C241485EF1EB0C9501F01F71| |91D0F182B7FA284C8B0552055BC440A127520B413893A91368C4461243248FD5E94| |7F95ADEE8B80C9E8A9329215E012639A34802835F08E2DED2DF092D1F50A78CDD84| |31AC4762538C9D60450240D61C517BAE593D6AE1B8CB19B8C24C545141C3492E398| |145951EFEC51581D64C5BC5D315841B2E2B094F8691A8C899E4585FB402BBD58F1F| |5DEE6FFB2ED3A800AE489135E4F12CFD81A7A0A3C618C3C46A5CF81170CD9A09417| |954227D3E8561A0DCDA0851934348BF6EE25EDF31AD07794134D1D030E3364A67E2| |F6DFF67B20644F61363FB17E0237085F30DAD3394A0F4D09001973EE1276710A7F6| |0FA614B9BC2309A4813C7747A57DC3D81718EE626B670C080311C688064419F2A0A| |37CFD5CDF28BA38F6D7EF78872E59CE3B46EE2B5BE3DF80EFC00FC6C44FE017E32E| |454DA2187532C365EEEE0306807EC65496B1AFFD9E5C358F6B59C0B52CE05A16701| |F8B6F1816E9B4D7FBE92A9FA3B80A588CACBAE5957117E7FE71E6D5F6B3130A3B43| |6AEB25BA6EA8BBFD50FEF77BAFB5D28516C2A467A5CC93288B72744ECA7939BD204| |7BA1C2D4B29CBA9FB416B151CDB2FEB3A20E5A094435212549FB826770623241129| |9A94A8942E293129DD527AA564A46C4A717F03FFCE0A24| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
this is a slightly old version of mids so not sure if it would work for you guys, and could someone please point me to a link to the new version download.
I skipped tesla cage and if I need to hold a boss right away I figured just go shocking bolt/shocking grasp combo. What do you guys think?
Quote:
Thats bull and you know it. The OP's question was clearly about what defense to build for on his Elec^3, not what powersets to play.
|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
@Candle
I was answering the only question the OP asked: |
Quote:
No it's not, I read the OPs entire post.|
Originally Posted by Candlestick
Thats bull and you know it. The OP's question was clearly about what defense to build for on his Elec^3, not what powersets to play.
|
He clearly stated
Quote:
| I'm gonna roll a triple elec blapper... |
@ Grey
It's actually easier to slot a blapper for maximum ranged defense (Mako sets) than it is to slot a ranger for it especially if your primary has a nice tier 3 that will take another set of Thunderstrikes. Though Elec does have Sparky who can take a set of Blood Mandates and the snipe will take a set of T strikes.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Would it be better cap for S/L (well get close to it) or try to cap for Ranged? I've yet to rebuild my Electric/Electric Blaster and am teetering (still) on which direction to go for. I've made builds in Mids that are very close to the S/L cap but it requires alot of veteran respecs (to get out unused sets) / alignment missions and tons of influence (though I do have some Kinetic Combat sets that I'm gonna pull from a soon to be deleted toon).
@Deadboy
Quote:
Slotting for ranged is fairly cheap. Slotting for S/L is expensive. It all depends on what you want to do and how you play.|
Originally Posted by deadboy_champion
Would it be better cap for S/L (well get close to it) or try to cap for Ranged? I've yet to rebuild my Electric/Electric Blaster and am teetering (still) on which direction to go for. I've made builds in Mids that are very close to the S/L cap but it requires alot of veteran respecs (to get out unused sets) / alignment missions and tons of influence (though I do have some Kinetic Combat sets that I'm gonna pull from a soon to be deleted toon).
|
One of the best things that has happened to blasters since the defiance change is the addition of PPPs. The blaster versions have an AoE immob in them, that makes capping ranged just a tiny bit behind soft capping S/L since you can easily keep stuff at range with out having to go the hover route and it still works in doors in close quarters like caves.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
All this talk about needing IOs to be able to blap is funny...
I have been and still am blapping away on a Standard IO build. No set bonuses or anything.
Half the fun was not having the defenses and having to BLAP everything down before your green bar disappears (Or the RED bar, depending on how close it gets).
I know, I know... you can do it more effectively and can take on greater odds... But still... It's just a bit silly to talk like this wasn't possible before IOs and like it is no longer possible without them 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lucky
I'm gonna roll a triple elec blapper just wonder what kind of defence people think would work best. Maybe get s/l high or go for some range and melee with some resistance from an epic shield. What does the blapper know hows think?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Quote:
|
Why's that? Answering a question that wasn't asked threadjacks... and here we are.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Try to build for either s/l or ranged softcap. Building for both will dilute your defense bonuses and gut other bonuses such as recharge.
I have a template that I use for all my blasters. They are build for ranged defense with about 50% recharge bonus. They also run tough and the epic resist shield for added layered mitigation, when the defenses fail, the resists kick in and allows for more time to react.
It may sound counter-intuitive but I favor ranged defense even though I'm quite liberal with melee power usage. The reason is two-fold:
1 - Ranged defense covers more mezzes than s/l defense
2 - You can always make ranged defense work on your terms. Some people believe blapping means staying in melee range, I don't subscribe to that school. I joust, and doing so keeps enemies chasing and shooting, and this makes ranged defense work for me on my own terms.
Quote:
And as stated previously I answered the only question that was actually asked.
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
The original question was 100% what kind of defense to use with those powersets. There was no question about what other sets would work. Check where the periods are and the question mark. I digress, I think you should at least answer the OP question before throwing out new suggestions.
Why's that? Answering a question that wasn't asked threadjacks... and here we are. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Off topic, what about an Elec/NRG blapper? Will that combo work?
Quote:
And... taking this stubborn line of thought:|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
And as stated previously I answered the only question that was actually asked.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lucky
...What does the blapper know hows think?
|
Also, I keep forgetting to call Bryan...
And... I think I'll have some dried papaya spears!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
I'm afraid you need to take a refresher course in English Comprehension then. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
And as stated previously I answered the only question that was actually asked.
|
You see, the question was in fact, a reference to the statement made previously. If someone asks you the question, "I am thinking of getting a new car, either Red, or Yellow. What do you think?"
You would not reply, "I think tacos". The "What do you think?" question is a question regarding the previously made statement.
Quote:
Oh, it's certainly possible. It was and still is. IOs just give people a new standard for performance, along with the newish difficulty settings. Even if you have defense, it's still best to not let your targets fire back at you. Knock 'em on their backside and beat them up via melee, or stun them and do the same. Or just drop them fast when you get in melee. My EM/EM just grins when people run in close on him, as they're down after one or two attacks.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
All this talk about needing IOs to be able to blap is funny...
I have been and still am blapping away on a Standard IO build. No set bonuses or anything. Half the fun was not having the defenses and having to BLAP everything down before your green bar disappears (Or the RED bar, depending on how close it gets). I know, I know... you can do it more effectively and can take on greater odds... But still... It's just a bit silly to talk like this wasn't possible before IOs and like it is no longer possible without them |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thgebull0425
Off topic, what about an Elec/NRG blapper? Will that combo work?
|
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
You're going to have to spend your first 40 levels without significant levels of Defense no matter what you pick. I'm going to give my rough guide to "what Defense means" here- I should have this where I can cut/paste it, but I don't.
__________________tangent commences_______________
25%: Half the attacks miss. You live twice as long on average. Below this level I don't really notice; your mileage may vary.
32.5%: 3/4 of attacks miss. So you live four times longer. This is about where an SO'd out SR scrapper lives. You can softcap for 60 seconds with a small purple. At this level I start to feel really tough.
40%: You live five times longer than an undefended blaster. At this level I feel like I have "mez protection" because a mez that doesn't land doesn't hurt me.
45%: Softcap. You live ten times longer than an undefended blaster, twice as long as the 40% blaster, and you laugh at danger and at death.
For people who are about to say "But without defense debuff resistance, you're going to die"... that's Scrapper thinking. That's thinking like a person who's in a fight which will last more than six seconds.
__________________tangent ends_______________
When I'm blasting (I consider it "full range" blasting- I use cones, I use melee attacks, I use what I have and what I have is attacks) I figure that, undefended, I have a half-life of four seconds in melee range. That means if I spend four seconds up close, I have a half chance of dying. I therefore strive to end fights REALLY FAST.
If you get good at no-Defense blasting, when you have Defense it feels like a luxury. You're calm, you're relaxed, you've got three to five times the half-life you are used to and you can just hang out and create havoc.
I recommend taking some time in the first 40 levels to learn to fight bare-a** and bluefaced like the Celts. It's a hard school but the lessons are invaluable.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Since I tutor English 104 and 105 I doubt this is the problem. More likely that you have trouble letting things go.|
Originally Posted by Candlestick
I'm afraid you need to take a refresher course in English Comprehension then.
You see, the question was in fact, a reference to the statement made previously. If someone asks you the question, "I am thinking of getting a new car, either Red, or Yellow. What do you think?" You would not reply, "I think tacos". The "What do you think?" question is a question regarding the previously made statement. |
The correct equivalent would be more like:
I'm going to be buying a Yugo. I know that the only thing they are good about is gas mileage but I was thinking that if I put in a different engine, do some major body and suspension work, and replace the drive train that it might be ok to drive. What do you auto aficionados think?
Answer: Just go buy a Cadilac and save yourself a bunch of wasted time and effort.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Other then of course, the fact that Elec/Elec Blappers are an excellent Combo, and in fact, better in many ways then the Ice/Elec and Energy/Elec that you seem to fawn over.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Since I tutor English 104 and 105 I doubt this is the problem. More likely that you have trouble letting things go.
The correct equivalent would be more like: I'm going to be buying a Yugo. I know that the only thing they are good about is gas mileage but I was thinking that if I put in a different engine, do some major body and suspension work, and replace the drive train that it might be ok to drive. What do you auto aficionados think? Answer: Just go buy a Cadilac and save yourself a bunch of wasted time and effort. |
Seems you have trouble letting things go. You were wrong. Give it up.
I'm gonna roll a triple elec blapper just wonder what kind of defence people think would work best. Maybe get s/l high or go for some range and melee with some resistance from an epic shield. What does the blapper know hows think?