Do Malta get Acc or Tohit bonuses?
Ugh. That pisses me off. If they start raising the base tohit of stuff all over what is supposed to be 'normal' content, I'm really not gonna be happy. Fine if that's going to be part of the 'extra hard' incarnate stuff, but if I'm not doing that I'd prefer my defense-based meleers un-gimped, thank you very much.
|
(Edit: And frankly, I don't think they'll want to deal with the outcry if the incarnate levels aren't at least ALMOST as casual-friendly as the pre-50 levels.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Ugh. That pisses me off. If they start raising the base tohit of stuff all over what is supposed to be 'normal' content, I'm really not gonna be happy. Fine if that's going to be part of the 'extra hard' incarnate stuff, but if I'm not doing that I'd prefer my defense-based meleers un-gimped, thank you very much.
|
...wow, jump the gun much?
The ONLY place this has been changed, as is posted in this thread, is in ONE faction in ONE train of content which leads to exceptionally good rewards.
It's a bit of a leap from there to DOOOOMM!!!!!
Don't you think?
As for 'defense-based meleer's' the well-known best practice on the boards for YEARS has been, "Layered defenses, then some more layered defenses."
To be perfectly frank, I've been running tips like an obsessive-compulsive teenager ever since they came out, and I did not even NOTICE this change to the DE, much less fell 'gimped' against them.
Well, any MORE gimped.
DE are hard, but that's hardly news.
Did Castle explain why it was designed that way? I was actually wondering before we heard that if this was intentional, since Devouring Earth mobs aren't really in the 40+ game (at least blueside), and that this was an attempt to up their difficulty since they're in tip missions for people in the 40+game.
I was actually surprised/annoyed to see them in those tip missions, as I hate DE with a passion. I can fight other difficult mobs without any issues, but there is something weird and annoying about them that I just don't like.
I haven't noticed any increased difficulty anywhere else, either. I was wondering about Arachnos a bit when my Fire/Fire Tank was soloing a tip mission, but then I realized I had 4 Executioner bosses fighting me along with a Tarantula Queen or two eliminating my defense bonuses. All those criticals and damage really added up. But I guess that was to be expected with their higher level than me, all their damage, and their defense debuff.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
As for 'defense-based meleer's' the well-known best practice on the boards for YEARS has been, "Layered defenses, then some more layered defenses."
To be perfectly frank, I've been running tips like an obsessive-compulsive teenager ever since they came out, and I did not even NOTICE this change to the DE, much less fell 'gimped' against them. Well, any MORE gimped. DE are hard, but that's hardly news. |
Most of the tip missions I've done have been with lowbies to low 30s toons. I don't know if I've hit devouring earth in them yet, as most of those have been on a team, and I don't pay any attention to the story - I just kill stuff. I did fight some devouring earth last night, and did die once, but that was on an all offense no defense Scrapper when the Tank kinda went to sleep in a big spawn and I didn't notice until I was in the red, and wasn't fast enough with my heal or inspirations. No idea if they were old or new devouring earth.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Did Castle explain why it was designed that way? I was actually wondering before we heard that if this was intentional, since Devouring Earth mobs aren't really in the 40+ game (at least blueside), and that this was an attempt to up their difficulty since they're in tip missions for people in the 40+game.
|
I was pleased, to be honest. DE are an interesting faction that actually takes a mild degree of tactics to fight. Given that they are SERIOUSLY the 'big bad' in Praetoria, I was wondering/hoping they'd get some more attention.
I mean, the Eden trial is still some of the most epic stuff in the game.
I was actually surprised/annoyed to see them in those tip missions, as I hate DE with a passion. I can fight other difficult mobs without any issues, but there is something weird and annoying about them that I just don't like. |
I hate the swarms more than I hate the Artemis caltrops, and that's saying something.
I haven't noticed any increased difficulty anywhere else, either. |
I was wondering about Arachnos a bit when my Fire/Fire Tank was soloing a tip mission, but then I realized I had 4 Executioner bosses fighting me along with a Tarantula Queen or two eliminating my defense bonuses. All those criticals and damage really added up. But I guess that was to be expected with their higher level than me, all their damage, and their defense debuff. |
Yeah, Arachnos I usually find to be quite easy except for the darn Tarantula Queens. It's really binary: I grind along steadily against them, or I miss a Queen, get debuffed, and have to chug half a tray to bust out of the mess.
Maybe the DE were considered "too easy" for the end game, and that's why they're barely used. I have no idea why the rock dudes were deemed "hard enough," unless the devs figured tedium = challenge (which judging by some of the older content may very well have been part of the design philosophy back then.)
Has anyone checked the to-hit on the DE in Maria Jenkins' new arc?
And that Malta mission is made of awesome. My DM/SD runs it whenever it comes up. My new self-imposed challenge is to keep Frostfire alive the whole time. I've managed it only once on +1/x6; on x8 he has yet to survive the third wave.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I consider this bad mojo. It's irrelevant that DE may have been too easy. In my opinion, blanket +toHit is the wrong way to buff them, or anything else.
Giving mobs 50% base toHit is fundamental to making defense and resistance of proportional value. There was a long-fought struggle, visibly waged by Aracanaville but also others, to first get the devs to understand this, and then get them to make changes that made the survival benefits of +defense actually scale versus foe rank and level the same way that resistance did.
The problem with giving any mobs uniform +toHit is that it causes them to be disproportionally harder against characters who have +defense than against those who have other methods of mitigation, such as resistance, debuffs, control, or +regen/heals. A mob with (using a round number for examples only) +12.5% toHit deals 125% as much average damage as it would with no +toHit against people with no defense. But if you pick someone who has 25% defense, that mob starts dealing 150% as much average damage than it did before. This is, IMO, a balance nightmare, where how challenging these mobs are becomes a function of how much defense each character has and how heavily it depends on that defense to survive.
All things considered, this probably is less of a problem on DE than on any other mob type, given that they blow this bonus out of the water every time they plant a Quartz. I would not want to see it added to additional mob types. If they want to up the DPS of foes, they should do it in a way that applies more uniformly to various player characters, such as +damage or +accuracy.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I started a thread about the DE increased accuracy in the bugs section a few weeks back. The strange thing is that it doesn't show up on their stats anywhere. They don't show higher than normal acc modifier or higher than average to-hit base it only shows up on the combat log in the rolls.
I don't understand how this can be WAD, since it's only the tip mish DE and not all DE. Also the tip mish DE are bugged in that the bosses won't con down to Lt. if you have it set for no bosses.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
I started a thread about the DE increased accuracy in the bugs section a few weeks back. The strange thing is that it doesn't show up on their stats anywhere. They don't show higher than normal acc modifier or higher than average to-hit base it only shows up on the combat log in the rolls.
I don't understand how this can be WAD, since it's only the tip mish DE and not all DE. Also the tip mish DE are bugged in that the bosses won't con down to Lt. if you have it set for no bosses. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...94&postcount=1
The problem with giving any mobs uniform +toHit is that it causes them to be disproportionally harder against characters who have +defense than against those who have other methods of mitigation, such as resistance, debuffs, control, or +regen/heals. A mob with (using a round number for examples only) +12.5% toHit deals 125% as much average damage as it would with no +toHit against people with no defense. But if you pick someone who has 25% defense, that mob starts dealing 150% as much average damage than it did before. This is, IMO, a balance nightmare, where how challenging these mobs are becomes a function of how much defense each character has and how heavily it depends on that defense to survive.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
IMO, it is OK to give certain mobs uniform +tohit, because it is OK that certain mobs are more difficult for various types of mitigation strategies. It was NOT OK when every Lt, Boss, or higher level mob in the game had that property.
|
The change to get mobs to have 50% base toHit was sought for so long for very sound reasons. I have problems with them making a fairly blanket reintroduction of it; having it apply to an entire faction of mobs full-time is overly severe, IMO. Having powers that grant it temporarily or conditionally (like build-up) I am more OK with.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I disagree vigorously that any mob should ever be consistently be given this particular brand of bypass as a full-time benefit. We have examples of things that bypass particular strategies already. It's called typed damage and typed defense.
The change to get mobs to have 50% base toHit was sought for so long for very sound reasons. I have problems with them making a fairly blanket reintroduction of it; having it apply to an entire faction of mobs full-time is overly severe, IMO. Having powers that grant it temporarily or conditionally (like build-up) I am more OK with. |
Yeah, I definitely think raising to-hit in the pre-50 content is a bad idea. Incarnate levels, fine. They can set that up extra-difficult if you like, even with disclaimers like "casual players need not apply - you'll need a good build and IOs for this stuff, or a really good team". But I don't think they should be adjusting the pre-50 content to make it, in this case, significantly more difficult.
(Edit: And frankly, I don't think they'll want to deal with the outcry if the incarnate levels aren't at least ALMOST as casual-friendly as the pre-50 levels.) |
THIS. Save the increased difficulty for the incarnate levels.
The devs clearly feel capped defenses are too powerful, while ignoring the fact defense is overly underperforming before soft cap,
|
having it apply to an entire faction of mobs full-time is overly severe, IMO. Having powers that grant it temporarily or conditionally (like build-up) I am more OK with.
|
Is there anything we can glean from the fact that it is 64%? Is it significant that it is a power of 2? Is the 14% higher than 50% meaningful?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I guess if you accept soft-capped defenses as your standard, anything less will be significantly underperforming, because even 40% defense means getting hit twice as often. But then, even 30% (4x as often) is probably fine for most content, particularly with inspirations. Bump it to 32.5%, and one small purple inspiration becomes god mode.
I have no theory on the significance of 64%.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
You are honestly proposing that any level of defense under 45% is overly under-performing? What does that even mean, overly under-performing?
|
Defense already has plenty of kryptonite to deal with. For example, DE already had tools that could give def based toons all kinds of problems, which makes the buffs even more difficult to understand.
People build for defense because they can now, thanks to IO bonuses. And it's been GREAT for the game, especially for scrappers. A good deal of the buzz in these forums is due to the fact that players can now softcap their toons late game and accomplish heroic feats like soloing av's and pylons. Weaken that too much and we go back to threads like 'i soloed a group of four hellions!'. Pretty exciting huh? I for one don't want my multi-billion io'd out level 50 toon struggling with every other even level spawn of average enemies like DE and malta, which are common lvl 50 enemies.
And if the devs are wondering why there is an imbalance between people building for defense and those building for resist and heals, then look no further than the miniscule io bonuses available for that build style. The answer isn't to decrease def bonuses or def effectiveness if this is what they're looking at, the answer is to increase players ability to build for survivability outside of defense based builds so they can continue to use their end game toons to solo avs and such.
As has been mentioned earlier, if the devs want to create a new level of difficulty, thats as easy as offering even higher difficulty levels on the slider, or putting it in the new incarnate material.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!