Why A Blaster?

There is no place in this thread that quantifies the combined lower survivability/lower lethality of a mezzed blaster and I have never seen any place on the forums where it has been done well.



Are you saying is that your ideas of how a scenario would work are less of an opinion and more of a fact than what the numbers say you can do ?

You do realize that nemesis farming has long been a popular activity for brutes ? That people can and do farm them in the 500k inf/min + range ? I would really enjoy seeing a blaster manage that. I would be especially impressed if they managed to do it while pulling onto ice patches.


Let me introduce you to

Dark Armor
Electric Armor
Shield Defense
Firey Aura
Electric Armor
Energy Aura

Even Willpower will debuff and taunt.
And Super Reflexes as close as you can come to a pure defense and resistance set brings +20% recharge to the table.


You need to re-read. The Area of an aoe only matters when you cant pack your enemies into the space where it will hit. It doesn't matter if ignite or burn has a small radius if you can fit everyone in it before you fire.

Let me make this clear, Range is not an advantage unless you can use it to hit the enemy and they can't hit you from the same distance. When this happens you can apply maneuver tactics to stop them from hitting you and you gain an advantage. If you can't all you are doing is trading punches at a distance.






Everything you have said in this post is opinion. What is more you haven't even presented the parameters on when you expect your examples to succeed or fail. As far as I can tell in every scenario you have presented you would be better off hoverblasting and having the spawn congeal at the point directly below. It would still be considerably less efficient than the tactics available to melee ATs but it would be faster than pulling.

I had a long response to this massive chunk of random QQ and cherry picked arguements, but then I realized that I finally recognized what this entire thing is. It's not Blasters are underpowered, its that the Devs hate Blasters. Ive seen this a million times on every game I have ever played about how, "X class is the weakest", "How the devs hate x class.", "They are just keeping X class weak and don't want to fix things"

You know what? The minute you start going from X has a problem to the Devs hate X, your argument is dead. Devs in other games put up with this stuff and ignore it on a daily basis, and they will here as well.

Edit: Also I see all arguments about Blasters are pitting the entire AT, weakness and all VS Only the best sets of other ATs. Way to be unbiased.

That's not what I meant by range (I was not referring to mitigation, though it is lame how much range mobs have in this game compared to us... but of course, if we outranged them, that's a farming opportunity... like when War Wolves had no ranged attacks). By range I mean the large AOEs (cones, ranged AOEs, etc.) that Blasters have to work with, and their ability to fire them from a long range, rather than up close (Spines longest is 40 feet, which is the shortest a Blaster ever has to deal with... and no Scrapper is going to want to sit back that far, either).

That range is huge if you're going to min/max. Stalkers, Brutes, Scrappers, and Tanks complain about when their targets get knocked back or when things are killed before something animates... and that's usually because they have to get up close to hit something (Blasters don't have to move much to keep things in range, if at all). IF you want to min/max and get the most damage you can, a Blaster is going to be far more helpful than any other damage class. You need one Tank to go in (so they don't return fire), some debuffs if you really want to min/max, and then go to town. Why wait for most of the team to get up close? Scrappers are nice for damage on a team, but a Blaster is going to be better, if all you want is damage.

Of course, the game doesn't have to be min/maxxed. Which I always have to say with that example. All varieties of teams work, and every AT in this game can bring something to that team.

They're pure damage from range, up close, and over a broad area. Blasters make mobs drop in a trivial amount of time. Other ATs having the ability to do damage as well doesn't take that away from them in the slightest. I have a lot of Scrappers, Tanks, Kheldians, and a Brute now. I appreciate the damage they can leverage and what they can survive, but I do know that my Blasters can outdamage them without working too hard (and yes, I know Tankers do way less damage, my point is that I can appreciate the gradations between all those ATs).

My argument is in line with what you have here (not sure what exactly Posi said, as I haven't read the post or have time to do so now). FoTM ATs or builds are bad, I agree with that entirely. That's why Brutes needed adjusting and Shield Charge certainly needed an adjustment.

But what this means is that (if the game is designed so nothing is FoTM and every AT has something to offer) all the ATs are going to overlap to some extent. Most of the ATs in CoX have some form of mitigation, but that doesn't take anything away from Controllers, Doms, or even Defenders. And to get XP, merits, clear missions, etc., they all need to do damage. That doesn't take anything away from Blasters, either.

So what I said earlier is the classic mistake people sometimes make with CoX. They think because there is overlap between the ATs, that some are better than others, when they aren't necessarily, as this is how CoX is designed (I could see that without Posi saying it to me, and what you have in that post just confirms it). Can imbalances exist between the ATs? Sure. However, I don't think such an imbalance exists for the Blaster AT since their Defiance, etc., improvements.

You haven't said anything to shake that belief.

You know what? You're way off base and way out of line. Way to allocate the opposition with constructed imaginary motivations in a rather sad attempt to stigmatise their stance.

Developers generally like to make new content rather than to fix old. New content is an easier sell after all. Developers also doesn't like to fix what isn't strictly broken. Additionally, developers are prone to influence through popular demand and Blasters have had very few proponents (as this and other threads make abundantly clear), where as other ATs have had an active lobby. There's also a, in my opinion, misguided consensus that i12 fixed the Blaster issues. These are the main reasons why I think Blaster issues take the backseat almost at every juncture.

Another thing you don't seem to appreciate is the fact that other ATs are much more free to cherrypick powerset combinations than do Blasters. A Blaster will always sacrifice a lot of damage to get a fraction of the mitigation any other AT takes for granted. Melee toons have more than sufficient survivability in all their armour sets making such considerations unnecessary. A Controller or Dominator can pick the most damaging sets and still have more than sufficient control to handle huge spawns single-handedly. Knowing one can get the best of both (or even several) worlds with other ATs is why numerous threads pop up clamouring for ever more offensive armour sets for instance. These comparisons can never be straight up, but seems biased only to the non-analytic mind.

In general, I don't know what I could say to change those beliefs . There is a stream represented on this thread, and I am not saying this is you in particular, that takes the attitude, that it doesn't matter how good or bad what you are playing is, it contributes something so its fine. These people might well be happy with a character that has nothing but 5 kinds of brawl with impressive animations. (I exaggerate, but by how much really ?). Then there was the one assertion that the numbers that are the powers weren't a fact but an opinion. Then there was my favorite that scrappers were dull to play ? (Takes a long look at that difficulty slider). There is without doubt some serious capability problems in the AT.

I also don't know where your particular bar is for the proof that will shake your beliefs. Blasters don't contribute anything that other ATs don't contribute better and or faster. Even the item that blasters are supposed to be best at (AoE damage) they either do about the same damage or do better damage considerably later than other ATs

When your argument is based on DPAs and damage generated over time and the premise that scrappers can deal as much damage as blasters in a set amount of time, then the area of the AoEs DOES matter.

Sure, I can collapse the spawn with my Kat/Inv or Kat/Fire scrapper and be likely to survive the extra hits I take in order to spend the time doing so. My AR/Men blaster just runs up, picks something in the back and starts shooting. The enormous size of the AoEs saves time, allowing me to put out more damage, quicker, because I don't need to spend time packing my enemies into a tight space.

There is a reason the more popular melee farmers have AoEs that are bigger (Spines, SS, Shield, Electric). Bigger AoEs save time, because you can start attacking sooner.

Thats fine if everything in the spawn dies with the AoE, if there is a boss or lieutenants in there you aren't done untill either they are done or you have dragged them to the next spawn to finish. The melee can start with the hard targets.

Edit I would do more in illustration, but Castle already has too many players whitewashing his fence.

Exactly. I love team synergy like that. Armored toons jump in and start on the bosses. Controls and debuffs get layed down nearly simultaneously. Blasters/defenders/corruptors/dominators kill off minions and lts with their generally larger sized AoEs. In our idealized world, the bosses are now either dead or very close, which the blaster can take care of while the armoreds and controllers/dominators are charging forward into the next group looking for bosses with full hitpoints and aggro control to lay down.

I love steamrolling teams.

Sorry, i just have to quote, this and really prove just how wrong you really are.

Take any blaster combination, but for fun, lets roll a AR/dev. No Build up, no aim, decent AoE, but generally a slow secondary, and really no melee attacks either. some say this is the worst blaster combination. So, lets just work with this.

You grab hover. and use it effectively. You have now giving yourself above 99.9% reduction to all melee damage. i say 99.9% because it is sometimes possible to not be able to hover high enough to avoid the attacks, but you have basically negated pretty much all the melee attacks that can be used against you, and you have not suffered anytime for it.

Post level 40, and you can take some holds, or an AoE sleep grenade, or some defense, or some resistance, and those are in your epic power pool, that again, anyone can take. Heck, here's a sample build, of a electric blast/energy melee with capped lethal/smash defense.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Natural Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Cold Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Charged Bolts Empty(A)
Level 1: Power Thrust Empty(A)
Level 2: Lightning Bolt Empty(A)
Level 4: Ball Lightning Empty(A)
Level 6: Energy Punch KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Acc-I(9)
Level 8: Build Up Empty(A), Empty(15)
Level 10: Bone Smasher KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Acc-I(13)
Level 12: Short Circuit Empty(A)
Level 14: Aim Empty(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Tesla Cage Empty(A)
Level 20: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(21), Zephyr-ResKB(21)
Level 22: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Zapp Empty(A)
Level 26: Voltaic Sentinel Empty(A)
Level 28: Power Boost RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Conserve Power RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Thunderous Blast Empty(A)
Level 35: Boost Range RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Total Focus KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Acc-I(40)
Level 41: Flash Freeze LgcRps-Acc/Rchg(A), LgcRps-EndRdx/Sleep(42), LgcRps-Acc/EndRdx(42), LgcRps-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Frozen Armor RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(45), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-Def(46)
Level 47: Hoarfrost S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Snow Storm CtlSpd-Acc/Slow(A), CtlSpd-Dmg/Slow(50), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx(50), CtlSpd-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 1: Health Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina Empty(A)

Thats with power boost active mind you, which without any other slotting is still about half the time. when you don't have power boost up, just pop a purple, and your effectively at the softcap, plus you have about 41-ish slots available to throw into your attacks, and you didn't give up anything to do it.

*Sigh*

Get with the program already. Let me prove just how wrong you are. I've stated previously that Blasters benefit considerably from specific, but rather expensive IO-builds. That's a testimony not to the viabiliy of Blasters, but to the overpoweredness of IO-sets. Blaster performance for a select few at max level isn't the issue. It's about the base abilities while levelling up (where such builds aren't even practically feasible) and beyond for your average Blaster.

As for your build, a simple mez would cut your S/L defense in half. Such a pimped out Electricity/Energy Blaster would still have less survivability than a standard Scrapper enhanced with SOs only. Its AoE and ST damage would still not compare well in practical gameplay to ie. a Fire/Fire/Any Scrapper, or a Spines/Dark/Any, or a Electricity/Shield/Any or Fire/Fire/Fire Dominator or...you might get the point.

As for the constant "just pop [insert select inspiration here]"-arguments - it's getting old fast. "Just" pop a purple or two, "just" pop a break free, "just" pop some blues to recover from the endurance crash of your nuke, "just" pop some greens to recover some damage. How large tray do you guys have and how much more damage do you think ie. Scrappers or Brutes do compared to Blasters since the former two ATs have little need of inspirations for such purposes and are free to use them enhancing their damage output (just popping multiple reds)? None of you take this simple fact into consideration which makes me frankly question either your reasoning skills or your integrity...or both.


PS. Oh...it just dawned on me; not only Dominators have better snipes than Blasters, but Scrappers have sniper powers in their epics that are actually worthwhile (for Blasters at least, Scrappers probably have better options). Such snipes have been requested by Blasters for years...further proof of the neglect I've mentioned in the past posts.

I've got much better builds collecting dust.

You're very misleading when you mention that "most of the IOs there, are pretty darn cheap", neglecting to include the fact that your (and most such) build(s) bases most of it's strength on the nerf-bait and expensive Kinetic Combat set. Such sets costs around 250 million each on the largest EU-server, and you had 3 of them which would set you back 750 million...on 12 slots alone. Pretty darn cheap, eh?

I know very well that mezzes won't affect IO-set bonuses, but it would affect your (half of the time power boosted) Frozen Armor...that's a reduction of almost 25% S/L-defense (or 16% w/o PB) every time you're mezzed. S/L defense is potent, but since Blasters get no resistance to -defense powers and these are very common to mobs using S/L attacks...cascading defense failures are bound to happen fairly often in your build. Not to mention being useless against the large number of mobs using any other type of attack. Also, when levelling down on task forces and trials and such (which is a large part of at least my level 50 game), you can generally forget about any such defenses.

As for your regeneration Scrapper/Brute complaint/woes; it's a little like picking a Fire/Fire Blaster and complaining about being squishy. Regeneration's one weakness is the inability to handle damage spikes well. Picking Broad Sword or Katana and combining it with Weave and Combat Jump would when slotted provide more than 30% defense to lethal and melee (and a bit less than 10% on everything else) achievable at level 20 on top of a phenomenal regeneration rate, several self heals, and a short but relatively quickly recharging tier 9 god-mode. If you struggle as you suggest, you're definitely not doing it right...even if you spent all of your budget on Kinetic Combat sets for your Blaster to make him viable.

Larger AoEs are of course advantageous over smaller ones, but not in the rather linear way you attempt to portray. Melee characters can gather the mobs close very easily and with little risk, solo or in teams by virtue of being the first to initiate combat. Melee AoEs are significantly more damaging than normal ranged AoEs. A power like Ripper would compare favourably to Explosive Blast (both available at level 26) despite being melee range AoE vs. ranged and being capped at 5 vs. 16 targets. Cones, which contribute a significant part of the Blaster AoE damage, are capped at 10 and often require constant repositioning.

Scrappers also have access to some large area AoEs any Blaster would kill for: Throw Spines (generally bigger, faster recharging and much more damaging than almost any and all Blaster cones), Shockwave, Lightning Rod, Spine Burst, Shield Charge, the Scrapper version of Fire Sword Circle (20% more damage than the Blaster equivalent).

As for Blazing Aura, Burn, Fire shield, Rise of the Phoenix being available to Blasters; the two latter are epic powers available at level 44 and 47 (thus a Fire/Fire cannot get it as you say, but a Fire/Fire/Fire may). The two former perform much, much better for Scrappers and other melee toons than they do for Blasters. Small pbAoEs with slow acting DoTs require a durability Blasters don't generally have and certainly not before endgame levels through expensive (!) and specific IO-builds. Pure damage auras are a cheap way to increase damage for all Scrappers, and a fast way to die for your average Blaster (unless on a team with very good aggro-management and control).

MoG doesn't crash, Power Surge crashes but has Power Sink, Unstoppable crashes but doesn't cause the long recovery debuff. Elude in Super Reflexes is the only semi-problematic one were it not for the simple fact SR-Scrappers/Brutes/Stalkers don't generally need it as they can softcap easily without it. Even a non-IO build with Weave and CJ can achieve around 40% to all positional defenses. Energy Armor for Brutes only is the only one that really compares, but that's only one or two out of...11, while 8 out of 11 blast set nukes crash. Let alone the fact nukes recharge 3 times faster than the few T9-god mode armour powers with true crash issues (thus needing to pop blues that more often). Also, when your average Scrapper or Brute really needs the god-mode, he or she is likely taking on enemies the average Blaster wouldn't even begin to contemplate engaging or the power is used as a panic-button. You're reaching a lot here.

That you mention Fire/Fire Blasters and in the same sentence mention it having an easier time dealing with tough mobs is just ridiculous and has put what little credibility you've had left straight out the window. Sorry, but not good enough.

So... what primaries do Blasters need to cherrypick so they'll succeed? I haven't heard of any being bad, and you'll pretty much get a good response for most of the primaries when you ask about it on the Blaster forums. There has been some grousing about Dual Pistols, but that's still debated. My Dual Pistols/EM blaster has been close on the heels of my EM/EM, and I'd be hard pressed to say one is better than the other. And my EM/EM has been really fun and really safe to play.

Or are you talking secondaries? Blasters could definitely use more secondaries, and Devices really deserves a look at, as all the interrupt, long animation, and limited utility powers on a fast moving team (or soloer) really do hurt it. But even then my Archery/Devices had an easy time of it solo and does great on teams. People complain they don't to get to drop anything with all the arrows being tossed around.

I don't know what the "stream" is that you're talking about (and I do see that you don't know if that's me), but you're going to have to show a bar that all ATs need to be at, and prove that Blasters are below that bar. I don't know that you're going to be able to do it. You sloughed off my statement about AOEs and ranges like it doesn't matter much, but it really does. Blasters have a big advantage there, and you have to see that if you're going to do an accurate analysis. You're also going to have to note CoX's overall design mantra where every AT can add something to a team and no one AT is needed to complete any content. That means (as I said before) that there will be some overlap. Scrappers do damage and Blasters do as well. However, one is a better solo AT while the other is a better team AT. Thankfully, they aren't specialists that can only solo or be on a team.

If you can prove around that mantra that Blasters are still somehow not giving enough for what they're giving up, great. I'll agree with you. But you're going to have a hard time convincing me that Blasters as set up are outclassed for pure damage on a team. Go ahead and try, though: I really am open to being convinced of things if you can provide good evidence.

Just so you know, I'm not satisfied with low damage or lack of success. If I'm not clearing a mission in good time (and that changes depending on the mission: I don't like having to pause between mobs much, though), I don't like it. If my TF team is taking too long, I really don't like it, as I have at most 2-2.5 hours of playtime when I'm on. And I hate it if my character takes too long to drop a boss or Elite Boss. All my Blasters have soloed through a huge amount of story arcs, defeating bosses and elite bosses on their own. Even the really annoying ones like Nosferatu (and he was not running like a panzy, believe me) or that have Tier 9 godmodes, etc. This while they're taking on content meant for levels above theirs and for multiple characters (difficulty settings).

I can't stand playing Defenders because they just don't do enough damage. I know their buffs and debuffs do a lot for their teams, and that some can solo with them, but they make me grind my teeth. And I've soloed with Tankers, Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Kheldians, Doms, and even Controllers just fine (once they got their pet).

So... while we're debating, don't think I want to fight everything at -1/x1 and think that's okay (even though the developers are going to probably still say that being able to solo at 0/x1 is the metric for being okay).

Ouch! Such drama for a poor defenseless Scrapper! Your Scrapper is much better off than a Blaster should he also miss and lose endurance. You may still have one or more applications of Divine Avalance running which protects against by far the most Malta attacks, you have significantly more health through Dull Pain which is close to perma slotted and with Hasten even without any global recharge IO-bonuses. You'd have more resistance, more recovery and more regeneration. You will be immune to the 45? sec AoE stun-grenades a Blaster has no defense against and the other stun attacks. You could pop a single blue inspiration, hit MoG and laugh at the Malta. If worst came to worst, you'd still have access to Revive self-rez and basically be good as new. Attempting to portray any Scrapper worse off than a Blaster is laughable.


Being able to use tier one and two while mezzed can be a godsend, but it generally won't save you if you fight anything worthwhile fighting at higher levels and you find yourself without break frees.


Melee ATs that depend extensively on defense for mitigation generally have such resistances. Other ATs generally have access to sufficient control and/or buffs/debuffs making the lack of such resistance less of a concern.


And Repulsing Torrent, another 10 attacks or so if we include Scrapper epics. A Spines/Fire/Dark Scrapper has access to more ST and AoE attacks (ranged or melee) than he'll know what to do with...and be infinitely more survivable than a Blaster.


4 of those are actually Location AoEs. Siren's Song is mainly a sleep with very poor DPS (only around 33% higher than Fire Cages for Controllers). The old nukes are also very poor DPS and when you consider they also cause a crash, they are extremely poor DPS (but of course DPS is not everything - but it will determine partly how well or fast you can solo). That a ranged/melee AT has more ranged attacks than a melee AT should hardly surprise anyone. What's your point?


Wrong. Nothing in the Blaster arsenal compares well, much less equal Throw Spines. Breath of Fire is solid but falls short despite having nothing put damage where as Throw Spines benefit from secondary effects. Buckshot actually comes closer in matching the DPS, but is also inferior - especially considering the AoE is also significantly smaller and the set lacks Aim.

Using long and narrow cones to maximum effect require tactics and constant positioning. It also involves risk of additional melee attacks as a Blaster will for all intents and purposes be in melee range. Despite the above, hitting 10 targets cannot be expected.

Blasters are inherently incapable of cherrypicking since neither primary nor secondary (not even pools or epics) covers damage and sufficient mitigation. The closest thing in my mind is Fire/Ice though, it comes with very good AoE damage, and good ST damage while also having relatively good mitigation (for a Blaster). It will perform pretty well solo and on teams which is a problem for most/all other combinations which will have to pick a specialty so to speak. Like your Energy/Energy which probably soloes relatively well (for a Blaster), but isn't a great teamer (due to poor AoE and erratic KBs). Even so, a Fire/Ice Blaster would be outgunned on teams by AoE-geared meleeists while these also being (significantly) better (but probably more boring unless you really stack the odds against yourself) soloists.

Archery is a bit of an abberation; RoA, Exploding Arrow and Fistful hits, if chained, almost simultaneously defeating some mobs before their retaliation reaches the archer. Combined with a nerfably strong tier 9 (then again, there are many overpowered powers in the game), it is a very solid set both solo and on team (unless fighting robots, CoT spectres and other heavily S/L resistant mobs).

Blasters does indeed need secondaries badly. A mixture of Ice and Mental including at least one AoE control/mitigation power and one AoE damage power would be ideal as far as I'm concerned. Here's hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

You must be lying! After all, everyone knows that Blaster snipes are useless!

Not completely useless no. Sure they have this odd tendency to lower your DPS if you try to use them as a part of a regular attack chain, and good luck trying to use them to one shot anything unless you have enough of a damage buff going on. My energy/dev blaster can't use a snipe to one-shot a sapper for instance. If you have enough damage buff though you can take out most LTs or get a head-start on them too I suppose. Oh, and you can get some nice IO set bonuses from the snipe sets.

In almost all cases though you'd be better off just walking up to the sapper and hitting it with Total Focus if you have it. It does better damage and animates faster.

So no, they're not completely useless, but if the devs decided to buff them I wouldn't be surprised either.

Plenty of Blasters can out damage Scrappers, Its a given based on increased radius of the AoE, and sheer range vs melee arguements. Very few blasters will sit in melee and get pounded on, like your run of the mill scrapper would. Your again cherry picking the example and trying to say a blaster would be worse off then a scrapper, when in reality, a blaster is much better at the job. When mez'ed, a scrapper has no way to defend himself. A blaster has both tier 1 and tier 2 attacks in his primary, and the tier 1 attack in his secondary. For a /energy blaster thats power push, which, while mez'ed, can keep bosses out of his face long enough for the mez to drop. Any blaster worth his AT pick knows to slot the t1 and t2 attacks to recharge constantly, so they can have a complete attack chain while mez'ed.

Your willing to claim the scrappers epic power pools as added damage through targetted AoEs but you wont claim the blasters added mitigation through thier epic power pools? Sleep greande, flash freeze, LRM rocket, Bonfire, PFF, Force of Nature, all provide enough mitigation for a blaster to be able to kill the prime target, then work on other mobs in a group.

A blaster with Force of Nature running has scrapper level resistance, and mez protection. While still maintaining the higher damage potentional due to both Aim and Build up, and added radius on thier AOEs. How is that any worse off them a scrapper?

Wait ... what?

Ok, I know there's a level range where scrappers don't have mez resistance, but they spend most of their leveling time with it. And heck, they have resistance in the part of the game that honestly has the majority of the mezzes. So generally speaking it's fairly safe to say that scrappers will pretty much have access to their full attack chain at almost any given time once they get that sheild.

Also FoN has no mez protection. It had it for a bit when the APPs were on the test server but it was removed and has never had mez protection of any sort on the live servers. Just kind of FYI and all. Oh, and you can't actually attack when you have PFF up, so it's kind of useless for providing mitigation while you're taking down the main threat in a group. It's certainly one of those powers that's fantastic when things start going south though.

Well, I'm never going to say that a Blaster can take more punishment than a Blaster, as that's obviously not correct (nor how the ATs are designed or set up). Malta Sappers can be equally dangerous to every AT out there, but they all get tools to deal with such threats. Blasters and Scrappers can handle both, though. Not sure there's really a point to talking all this over, unless someone really wants to say they're more dangerous to one AT over another (powersets and builds make more of a difference, there).

If you're only relying on using your first two attacks ever, you are going to be sunk as a Blaster. Blasters have tools and ways to build so they don't only have to rely on Defiance while mezzed, however. Being able to attack while mezzed is just one tool, but it is definitely a tool that can save you if you set up the fight in your favor from the start, which is what you should always be doing on any AT, let alone a Blaster.

Quick comment on methodology here. Blasters have access to many attacks and are survivable enough to get the job done solo or on a team. They have to defeat stuff before it defeats them: just like a Scrapper. The two ATs have different ways of doing so, but they can both work just fine. A Scrapper being able to take more hits doesn't matter if the Blaster can get the job done in a fashion that works for the AT. And a Blaster can.

I can get liking Throw Spines, especially on a Scrapper... an AT that doesn't usually have any range or largeish AOEs. But... that's not really characteristic of the Scrapper AT, either. Throw Spines is a nice short-ranged cone, to be sure. I just... yeah. It's not exactly a core case of the AT's mechanics, and if it's really so out of line for a Scrapper power, perhaps it needs a look from Castle to see if it's stepping where it shouldn't, like Shield Charge?

Of course, I don't really think that. Spines Scrappers are nice (I don't really like the look much, but get the appeal looking at the numbers), but they're not the only Scrappers out there, and I don't think the numbers are so "teh uberz" that they're somehow outshining Blasters.

I don't understand why this is only a concern for a Blaster? If a Blaster has to worry about their AOE placement, a Scrapper has to even more, as they have even smaller ranges to worry about. Melee ATs have a lot more issues with lining up AOEs than Ranged ATs, but at worst for all of them, it's a concern. Nobody gets out scot free on this, and time is money for every AT, if you want to put it like that.

You've lost me on your cherrypicking stuff now. I don't have any /Ice Blasters, and I've never been wondering why I didn't have enough mitigation to complement my defense. There's some advantage to being able to stack mezzes on a boss, which can make you want to think through your power picks to some extent, but that's not strictly necessary, nor is it going to help you as you fight an Elite Boss. There really aren't any bad Blaster sets that would make me think you need to avoid them to be able to play CoX. Devices needs help, but you can still make that work with any powerset.

Not sure what you mean by poor AOE with my EM/EM, either. A little damage boost + Energy Torrent + Energy Blast means nearly dead or dead mobs (depending on resists and if the procs fire or not). I drop anything that gets KB'd back (if my teammates damage doesn't drop it before I can target it). EM is pretty middle of the road for damage among Blaster AOEs, too... so maybe there is some misapprehension there?

[/quote]Archery is a bit of an abberation; RoA, Exploding Arrow and Fistful hits, if chained, almost simultaneously defeating some mobs before their retaliation reaches the archer. Combined with a nerfably strong tier 9 (then again, there are many overpowered powers in the game), it is a very solid set both solo and on team (unless fighting robots, CoT spectres and other heavily S/L resistant mobs).[/QUOTE]

Archery has nice AOE damage, but I've found that capability with other powersets, too. Not sure it's really "nerfable" either. It has a long animation and doesn't drop a mob on its own, so it's not as strong as other nukes. It IS a great attack, don't get me wrong, but my point is that it's not all roses, either. Been in the game as is for a long time, too, and through a lot of passes Castle has made with the Archery set. Now, Castle can come in here and say he's nerfing it somehow on Monday, but it's not silly good like EM before its reduction, or Shield Charge, etc. I'd be rather surprise if it happened.

Meh, you're going in the wrong direction with this. Blasters have many ways to mitigate damage (above and beyond dishing it out a lot) to get the job done. They're never going to be as tough as Scrappers, but they don't need to be. As I've said earlier.

I would guess that most players do not actually have problems with how blasters play. We on the forums may gripe or debate the situation, but I don't see this kind of issue in game. I frequently see people wanting to switch to their blaster or already on blasters when I do searches.

Blasters get a lot in return for their squishiness. The big problem is, you can never get "enough" to compensate the fact that you are squishy (because getting "enough", by its very nature, will make you not squishy). If we premise the AT on the fact that what they do is dangerous and will get them killed without outside help, then we have to accept that they WILL get killed more than other ATs.

That leaves two questions (three really, but two are related):
Do they fall within the acceptable reward generation range?

Are they fun? Do people play them?

They will never be "as good" as any other AT on SOs. As good as you can make some select sets with IOs, there will always be more and more varied sets in other ATs that will be "even more good" with IOs.

While your dps figures are exaggerated a bit for both combos, this is so very true. /ice app for doms is also an excellent choice and even benefits the entire team like a corruptor would.

Maybe. When your blaster has taken out throngs of AV's solo, and even multiples at once, without a single inspiration or temp power give me a call. Until then, in many situations corrs can and do outdamage blasters, just like in many situations blasters can and do outdamage corrs. That is just solo too, by and large corrs always bring more to a team.

So you used a power with a 13 min recharge and another one with a 6 min recharge and still had to resort to using inspirations.

Is that supposed to be impressive?

One time I popped a couple warburg nukes on a spawn and they all died. A fire/kin was like "wow, I gotta get one of those". I said, "well you can probably replenish them faster than Airhammer can cycle EMP..."

Anyway, all kidding aside, some blasters are more or less ok (mainly fire and arch) and some blasters aren't. Scrappers and brutes definitely do too much damage given their survivability relative to blasters, many corrs, defs, doms, and trollers do too much damage given their survivability and/or team utility relative to blasters. About the only AT that is probably ok relative to blasters are stalkers.

FWIW if anyone really wants to back up their belief that blasters are fine then get someone to taunt a pylon, I can guarantee you won't beat the best scrapper times, let alone get anywhere near the times Frosticus has posted with MM's and trollers. The latter of which is bordering on ludicrous.

Yes blasters can deal out some good aoe even if we accept that they aren't near the best st damage dealers (though they should be hands down). But they aren't near the best aoe damage dealers either or else they would be used as farmers more often because farmers take the easy mobs and slaughter them en masse, which is what people are saying blasters excel at...