Soul Drain, Soul Master worse then Dark Mastery
By
BenRGamer,
Posted on: 2010-09-11 16:37 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I haven't looked at the in-game values but there are many imbalances.
Corruptor has access to Dominate (hold) from Psychic set and this hold only has 16s recharge; whereas all the other "Patron holds" have 32s recharge. T_T
Can somebody explain to me why similar version of the powers in Epic are stronger? Soul Drain is a good example and then there is Dominate hold VS Patron hold. Why did Heroes have better version of the similar power? I don't know the "theory" behind heroes having better version but the difference is as big as 2x. Soul Drain's recharge is 240s vs 120s and Dominate hold is 16s vs 32s. T_T
Do dev secretly prefer Heroes to create that Hero > Villain feeling? LOL Just kidding...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Probably because the devs didn't double check their work when they copy-pasted.
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Wait, but that doesn't make any sense. Evil will always be better than good because good is dumb.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Do dev secretly prefer Heroes to create that Hero > Villain feeling? LOL Just kidding...
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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That doesn't explain when they gave Dominators the defenders version of Soul Drain for Soul mastery, complete with the 120 second recharge, and then increased it to 240 seconds to match the corruptors version. One of the two versions has to be right and the other wrong. (and one of them has been the way it has been for a very long time)
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Probably because the devs didn't double check their work when they copy-pasted.
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"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
These are very old complaints that have existed (with requests for fixes) for years. It's possible, with more high level heroes being able to switch sides and get access to the Patron Pools, that they may finally be addressed. But since there was a stickied thread about just such issues back from just after i7, I don't know how they could NOT be aware of the discrepancies without willful ignorance.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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It's an old issue if you even want to call it that but what boggles my mind, and maybe its just cause I love soul drain that much, is why the hell would you complain about it being a shorter duration? That's just asking for attention to have to changed to the 240 duration to make it on par with the patron versions. Like what are people thinking? "Lets complain that an un-touched version of this awesome power is available to us, then they'll have to change the patron versions that have higher recharge to match the defender APP version" WRONG!! remember its the APP version and is meant to have "typically" lesser values, usually in the form of higher recharge and end cost.
So obviously yes, it should therefore have a 240 sec recharge but It doesn't yet. Am I the only one hoping that they never get around to changing the defender APP version?
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The 'fix' will result in a significant decrease in the power of the "defender" version. Is that something everyone really wants? IME the 240 version is utter garbage and not worth the power pick and the 120 version is great and nearly a 'must have' power.|
Originally Posted by Candlestick
The Soul Drain power has different values then for the two epic sets, with the Dark Mastery one being *significantly* better then the Soul Mastery.
Soul Mastery has a 240s Recharge and a 10ft Radius. Dark Mastery has a 120s Recharge with a 15ft Radius. All other values are the same. Can we get a fix? |
The increased radius plays a factor in that assessment.
The higher target cap allowing a higher total buff when saturated of the defender version plays a factor.
The fact that when used on a defender it gave a much better damage buff per target than the corr version (AT modifiers) plays a factor.
But ultimately it is the recharge that plays the biggest factor.
Asking for a correction is of course legitimate, it is just going to definitely result in a major decrease to the 'good' version of the power for corrs and defs. But that said, many epic powers have out to lunch numbers when compared to ppp powers and have since day 1. It has also been brought to the dev's attention since day one and nothing has changed. But then again, there are sooooo many bugged powers in this game when you start to look closely that it is overwhelming. Though I suppose someone needs to start somewhere correcting values.
Hey, Dark Mastery Soul Drain was already nerfed once - they added in the target cap (of 10, which is still higher than the 7 that the Soul Mastery version has for Corruptors). Originally it didn't have a target cap at all.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Thank you! |
Originally Posted by Nicetry
The 'fix' will result in a significant decrease in the power of the "defender" version. Is that something everyone really wants? IME the 240 version is utter garbage and not worth the power pick and the 120 version is great and nearly a 'must have' power.
The increased radius plays a factor in that assessment. The higher target cap allowing a higher total buff when saturated of the defender version plays a factor. The fact that when used on a defender it gave a much better damage buff per target than the corr version (AT modifiers) plays a factor. But ultimately it is the recharge that plays the biggest factor. |
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Hell you know what, if Defender soul drain gets brought to be on par with the patron version, why not go make Fissure from the Controller Earth Mastery to be on par with the dominator earth assault power that has significantly decreased radius, target cap and chance to stun and kd? I'm sure everyone would love that. HAH!
These are epic power pools right? I personally don't want them to just feel like more skippable powers.
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Mmm, now that Heroes have access to the "weaker" version in the patron sets (for certain powers) and suddenly they want to fix them? :P That's encouraging to know! |
Originally Posted by Siolfir
These are very old complaints that have existed (with requests for fixes) for years. It's possible, with more high level heroes being able to switch sides and get access to the Patron Pools, that they may finally be addressed. But since there was a stickied thread about just such issues back from just after i7, I don't know how they could NOT be aware of the discrepancies without willful ignorance.
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Well, I don't really care about the math behind Defender needing "better" soul drain but 240s vs 120s is just not acceptable. One is like twice as weak. It's one thing if the Courruptor's version is like 180s or something.
And not just soul drain, I think the holds are good example as well. Why should Blaster and Defender epic holds recharge only in 16s while Corr and Mastermind's version have 32s. I can understand on Brute/Stalker.
I am more curious about "why" then complaining because whatever the villains have had, it's good enough.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Originally Posted by doomrider
Thank you!
These are epic power pools right? I personally don't want them to just feel like more skippable powers. |
LOL you don't know how many powers I skipped in Patron sets until they introduced some useful ones. The only thing that is worth taking is the patron shield.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
We were thinking more along the lines of buff the weaker one, not nerf the stronger one =P
I had Soul Drain on my AR/Sonic Corruptor, mostly as a path to Soul Storm. I ended up respeccing out of it just because the power has such a ridiculously tiny radius. It doesn't even hit everyone *inside the power FX*!
~union4lyfe~
All epic versions of Soul Drain are supposed to be like the Corruptor version (in terms of recharge time, at least, though the radius and max targets thing seems odd). The Defender version was changed to 240 seconds after I13 but that change either mysteriously got reverted a few patches later or it never made it in.
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Also, just noticed that the Energy Mastery for Masterminds is screwed up.
Energy Torrent has a 24s Recharge, and Explosive Blast has a 16s Recharge. Those values are the exact opposite of what they should be.
Copy/pasting is hard, apparently.
Also, hi Mod 12!
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
The Soul Drain power has different values then for the two epic sets, with the Dark Mastery one being *significantly* better then the Soul Mastery.
Soul Mastery has a 240s Recharge and a 10ft Radius.
Dark Mastery has a 120s Recharge with a 15ft Radius.
All other values are the same. Can we get a fix?