Hardware Question - Nvidia Geforce GTX 480

Also get the 1GB version too. Tom's Hardware did a review on it and man they loved the card and said to get the 1GB version because it will run smoother at 1980x1200

Yeah, that was something I had thought about. That and checking to make sure my fan can handle it.

Something I learned building my new system: Make sure the darn thing fits in your case!

I use an ATI Radeon 5850 and I was shocked how big the darn thing was. It fit, but it took some juggling.

The GTX 460 is considerably smaller than the 480, FWIW.

I have one, but you're not going to like it. Don't.

I've already been over this, well, several times if I'm honest on these forums, so here's why you shouldn't be buying Nvidia cards unless it's a GTX 460 and you intend to run SLI once again.

To get this rolling, I'm going to make one critical assumption.

That assumption is that the only reason you want a GTX 480 is because it has the Nvidia badge.

If that is your one and only reason for looking at an Nvidia card, you are going to get ripped off. Period. Stop.

First, let's talk performance. Yes, a GTX 480 is actually more powerful than a RadeonHD 5870. However, in most game's the performance difference is around 5%, and the performance delta only widens on games built under Nvidia's The way it's meant to be code sabotaged program.

No, that's not a joke. There's been several Triple A popular titles, such as Borderlands, Batman Arkham Asylum, and Need For Speed, where Nvidia has deliberately worked with the game developer to implement graphics code that sabotages performance and / or features on competitors graphics cards. Our own game here, City of Heroes, was also a victim of Nvidia's deliberate code level sabotage under the Pre Ultra-Mode enabled graphics engine.

So while Nvidia is faster in many games, it's not exactly fast enough to drive a higher resolution or any more graphical effects.

Second, let's talk build quality. Nvidia chips are expensive, which may not mean much to you directly. However, in order for an add-in-board partner, such as XFX, Zotac, or Asus, to sell an add-in card with an Nvidia chipset that has similar performance to an AMD chipset at a similar price, the vendor in most cases will have to cut corners on build quality. This means that many of Nvidia's add-in-board partners are using lower quality capacitors, less layers in the board's Printed Circuit Board, and using cheaper components to manufacture system fans.

This means that an Nvidia graphics card that will give the same frame-rate performance as an AMD graphics card, generally will be less efficient in heat removal, and fail over far sooner.

Of the current Nvidia partners, only EVGA and XFX are known to not sacrifice build quality on their graphics cards. XFX makes up money by selling AMD graphics cards, and EVGA makes up money by selling their cards for more money.

Third: Let's talk price. As of right now, on Pricewatch, the cheapest GTX 480 is near as makes no difference $450. The cheapest EVGA model is $475.

The cheapest RadeonHD 5870 is nearly $100 less than the cheapest GTX 480, at $355. An XFX model is around $385, still nearly $90 less than an EVGA GTX 480.

So, if you want to spend $90 more, go right ahead. You aren't actually going to improve your performance in games by any visual measure, just stastical.

Forth: let's talk about the soft factors of the graphics card, such as the power draw and heat output. A GTX 480 will put nearly 200 degrees Fahrenheit of heat. The GTX 480 is so hot Nvidia actually has a Fermi Certified Chassis program.

In generating that heat, a single GTX 480 will make most 700 watt power supplies cry, and you'd better prepared to have a good 850watt or better power supply waiting for it: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...buying_guide/4

A RadeonHD 5870? Runs pretty much no hotter than a RadeonHD 4870, and will run at full clocks on a 500watt power supply.
So. To recap.

• In buying a GTX 480 you are going to spend at least $60 more than a Good RadeonHD 5870.
• You are going to need a bulkier power supply.
• You are going to need massive air movement.
• You aren't actually going to gain any visual performance. Just benchmark performance.

I'm sorry. This is how the term RIP OFF is defined. That's what the GTX 480 is. It is a RIP OFF.


Now, the picture for Nvidia gets even worse when you consider the GTX 460.

Yes, the 460 is a phenomenal chipset. It's almost as power efficient as the RadeonHD 5x00 series cards. You can pick up a 1gb EVGA model for around $230. In 2X SLI mode, it will actually out-run 2X Crossfire RadeonHD 5870's.

However.

In single GPU mode, the GTX 460 784 meg card can't actually outrun a FILLER PART NEARLY 5 MONTHS OLDER THAN IT IS. The RadeonHD 5830, which was released at the end of January.

Remember. AMD didn't actually have to release the 5830. It's a binned part largely using 5850 or 5870 GPU's that weren't passing clock speed or shader counts at the fab, and was released to just fill in the performance cap between the 5770 and the 5850.

The 1gb GTX 460 can outrun a RadeonHD 5830... but can't outrun a 5850 in single GPU modes. For reference, if you leverage mail-in-rebates you can pick up a 5850 for around $250.

This, in and of itself, isn't a big deal. Until you step back and look at the release dates on the chips:

AMD Details: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=1
Nvidia Details: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=5

The GTX 460 was released 10 months after the competitors top end card. That's right, as of this posting this month, the RadeonHD 5870 is celebrating it's one year anniversary.

Now, just take a quick look at the amount of performance difference 10 months normally buys a graphics card. Just a quick look down the AMD side and you have the Radeon x1900 series into the RadeonHD 2900 series. The HD 2900 into the 3870. The 3870 into the 4870. The 4870 into the 5870. In all of these generational jumps, the mid-range card generally performs as well as the old top end card.

The jumps don't hold together as well on the Nvidia side, largely due to Nvidia's MegaChip 8800 Ultra. It wasn't until the die-shrunk GTS 250 that Nvidia had a mid-range priced card that was more powerful than it's previous generation high-end card, and even then that was largely because the GTS 250 was an 8800 Ultra.

So yeah, Value for Money, buyers of the 8800 series cards got one hell of a deal.

Anyways. The worrying part from an Investors point of view is this: The GTX 460 came out 10 months after the competitors high-end part and is only competitive with the competitors medium range parts.

That's... that's not good.

The problem get's even worse when you consider AMD's response, which basically consisted of: they aren't going to do a product refresh on the 5x00 series cards.

AMD is going to go straight into their next chipset with the 6000 series cards, and those cards are from all reports, due probably at the end of this month to coincide with the 1 year anniversary of the 5870.

It is for this reason that I couldn't tell you to buy a 5870 right now. I really do think, if you can wait till the end of the month, you'll be able to drop $400 on a graphics processing unit from AMD, that will run on a 500 watt power supply, not require any changes to your computer cases air flow, and will blow the GTX 480 out of the water.

By the same token, if you are just desperate for that Nvidia badge. If you just absolutely, positively, have to have Nvidia. If you can't stand the thought that their driver development is crap, or that they might be bought out and removed from the desktop graphics market entirely, or that they might go bankrupt from the multiple class action lawsuits from exploding laptops, then spend $460 on two GTX 460's.

Put them in 2X SLI. Enjoy.

I don't think...... and I mean I really don't think... AMD is going to move on the $200 market segment at the end of this month. I don't think they'll launch a 67xx series line this year. I think they'll just go with a 6870 and a 6850. I'll think they'll just punch the 5850 down to the $210, maybe the $200 mark, and park the 5870 at the $275~$280 mark to clear room for the $300 and $400 6000 series cards.

If this is what AMD does, then with two GTX 460's you'll still be outrunning their $200~$300 cards in multi-gpu rendering modes.

If you absolutely have to have that Nvidia badge, that's going to be your best bet for your wallet.

I got a PNY GTX 465 for $212.49 less than 2 months ago on a great sale from newegg after only spending a week shopping around and waiting for a deal.

Deals are common there, the brand is great(proven by previous mishandling of a PNY card that worked perfectly even after my error) and the 465 with 1GB ram is plenty powerful to run even Praetoria at 30 fps int he most populated busy areas with everything maxed in windowed mode with Aero Glass still enabled in Windows 7 64bit.

EVGA shipped me a dead motherboard when I purchased from them so I'm glad I didn't buy their graphics card. It may have been bad too, and it took forever to get my refund with the people not knowing what happened to it when I called.




Edit:
The GTX 465 recommends a 550 watt power supply and 2 of them needs a 750 watt PSU, fyi.

I just went with getting an 80+ certified PSU and multiplying the wattage by 80% to make sure it was over the minimum the card needs. That actually got me a PSU capable on running 2 of the GTX 465s if I ever add another.

The 465 is better than the 460, with the same benefits of the newer design, and ratehr closely priced too.

Be careful just assuming Je knows what is best. She does make a couple questionable statements in that post for one.

1) The GTX 460 obviously only competes with the ATI mid-range cards because it is a mid-range card. You can't expect a mid-range card to compete with a high end card very much if at all.

2) You can get the GTX 465 for cheaper than the $230 she says fr the 460 by going to Newegg.com and waiting for a sale. I got a 465 for $212.49, one of the ones that can be unlocked(voiding the warranty) into a 470. They had another sale within 2 weeks of the one I bought that had the same card at $215. Both were from PNY.

3) EVGA and XFX are not the only quality manufacturers of Nvidia cards as Je seems to think. XFX is practically abandoning producing Nvidia cards in favor of ATI now.
I've found PNY cards to be just as reliable and feature rich with nice additions on the CD and download offers for less price.
I actually took a PNY GeForceFX 5600 in my old computer when I first built it and forgot to plug int he extra power cable. I proceeded to do so while the comuter was running which caused an immediate reboot and sounded like it shorted out. The card was completely fine and still runs well to this day after 7+ years.

PNY are very reliable and a great price.




Go with the PNY GTX 465.

Ahh, I didn't know that.

Oh well, I got a really good price and the card works wonderful for me. It also doesn't make any of the air coming out of my case hot. My stuff stays pretty cool even though it's just normal air cooling and nothing high-end.

Maybe PNY cards are just better made and cooler than the other brands. /shrug