Bane needs a buff

And there is a misconception that Crab can't melee as well as Bane? Think again!

My Crab is mostly melee build but really, you can use range attacks at melee distance, can't you?

My Crab takes Slice, Arm Lash, Longfang and Frenzy. And both Venom and Frag Grenade can easily be used at melee distance.

Crab's melee aoe damage is way better than Bane and I haven't even put any fancy sets in Crab yet. If I feel like it, I can put AH proc or negative proc to increase damage. I took Slice and Arm Lash to force myself to melee because I think the crab legs are more suited for "melee" than shooting beams.

Oh and Crab does survive better than Bane.

I'm not sure whether Banes need a buff or not. They are pretty clearly tank-mages and are probably where the other SoAs should be. What makes Banes look poor is that EVERY other branch of SoAs, including going full Huntsman, blows them out of the water.

After fighting it until level 40, I took my Bane over to a Crab and haven't looked back.

If I were to buff Banes, I would do the following:

• Change the entire Huntsman line to use the mace and change the animation of the "bullet" attacks to blasts.
• Change Combat Training: Defensive to melee defense
• Make the +HP in Bane upgrade enhanceable

1. Bane is just as close to Brute/Stalker as Night Widow is. My point is Night Widow can deal even more melee damage than Bane so what is your point? You don't need to ask about my build. I know what I am doing. Trust me. I came here because even after set bonuses are included, NW > Bane in terms of damage and Crab, while not having as much ST damage as Bane, survives better, has way better aoe and can also debuffs faster with Venom (since Bane needs to draw Rifle out).

-Like you I used to just look at damage. However the more I played the game the more I realize damage isn't everything. The devs design these classes with the team in mind. Bane as they are now contribute greatly to a team. Night widows offer a different mechanic than Banes do. I have never been told to get another toon when I asked to join a team either in my huntsman spec or bane spec.

I am not a min/max nerd number cruncher, and those people are the reason why pvp in this game sucks. I like playing a toon because of the power sets, the animations and side abilities of various powers.

2. Surveillance is ok if you use it before you run in but when you use it again during battle, you have to draw mace again. Why is it so hard to understand? If Bane's "special ability" is to debuff, it shouldn't penalize Bane for using it during battle. And quite frankly, I don't give a !@#$ about Huntsman needing to draw Rifle out. Surveillance belongs to Bane soldier and it should favor Bane more. Question?

-Actually it should favor both as the Huntsman is more a leadership type build and what does a good leader do before going to battle? He recons his enemy!!! I love the surveillance animation. I am disappointed that their are only two career paths for SoA's, and I feel their should be a third ala the Huntsman, but fortunately the Huntsman build is doable without the need for a third path.

3. Did you even look at Black Scorpian Mace Beam attack? It has the same awful long activation with a bit more damage but on 9s recharge. You are not even reading what I am saying. I am saying THE RANGE ATTACKS ARE SO BAD THAT MOST BANES DON'T WANT TO TAKE THEM. It's not about "choosing styles". The range attacks take forever to shoot and quite frankly, Soldier has better range attacks than Bane's. So yeah, my Bane would rather just use melee attacks. And since range attacks can't critical from hidden, there is really little reason to take range attacks on Bane because the most beneficial thing to do is to just BU + Shatter/Crowd. I don't mind spending 2s on every attack if it is worth it. The current Mace Bean only recharges in 4s and spend half of its time on just activating it.... this gotta be the worst range in the game.

-Then don't get the Black Scorpion patron powers. Get bile spray from the Mako pool. Sure its not theme worthy but hey it does better damage, and of course that is all you seem to care about-well that and the fact that you hate the surveillance animation, because it chops a few seconds off your attack time.


4. Who says Bane is mostly ST melee damage? 4 out of 8 attacks (yes, 50% of them) are range. I certainly don't agree Bane is designed to be mostly melee. NW is more Melee than Bane. The enemy Bane usually shoots mace attacks and then go in for melee but that style would suck because Bane can't take advantage of "hidden" unless he can critical with range attacks as well.

-Banes are ranged fighters, and sure they have ranged attacks but they are weak attacks. I think the ranged attacks are more for filler and theme than anything else with the exception of venom ray or whatever the hell its called. I have venom ray, and the st ranged attack from mace epic set. I don't need anything else because my job as a bane is too sneak up on someone and turn their head into a gravy boat with my mace.

I don't need a surplus of offensive powers either. I like building character where the primary and secondary work hand and hand. That has been the case for the most part and I like making toons that follow a theme.

5. I have no issue with Bane having less survivability than other 3 branches. I never mention that Bane needs a health boost or defensive boost. Where I have problem with is Bane's lower damage (due to long animation), slower debuffs and just overally...very slow.

-The banes are using a mace and I think that was factored in when the devs made the class. Maces are suppose to be slow and devastating. I like the way it looks when I use shatter on some poor fools face. I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned survivability. I was mentioning the comments another poster made.


6. I am giving dev ideas because 1. 8/10 Soldiers are Crab from what I've seen 2. with two sides merging (sort of), there is even more reason to look at sets that are under performing.

-Go to the kheld forums and give the devs some ideas for fixing them. They need work especially for a viable human form build that doesn't require 2 billion INF to make viable. I like surveillance the way it looks. I have a lvl 50 dual build Huntsman/Bane and my bane build is a lot less IO'ed than my Huntsman build and does just fine. I use that build on hard EB's or if I am on a team and they need a front line melee build to either bookend with another melee like a scrap or brute or just be the tanks shadow beating things down.

In closing if you have so many problems with banes then respec to crab, make a huntsman or roll a widow. Better yet roll a straight class type of toon IE.. tank, scrap, blaster etc. SoA's are hybrids so their are going to be some downsides. I love my Huntsman/Bane and it was fun leveling him to 50 and building him.

You really sound like a min/max type and I think people like you really drag the game down. For you types its not about having fun, teaming with people, or building your toon. It's all about the numbers for your types and by all means have fun with that but don't ruin my game.

Defense
Debuff
Resist

I did read it in one of the posts to drop one of the webnades and swap it out for a heal. I like that idea to help increase survivability. I would rather they get a pseudo tier 9 power, but I would settle for a quick yet small heal. As for the damage I do believe they should be able to crit from hide. Why should only the melee crit and not the range?

because if you could crit from hide, why go into melee? Then you could just stand back with the blasters and range the crap out of things.....making your large (by blaster standards) def even larger since your not getting melee'ed, which is dangerous....unless your fighting longbow which do more from range than melee....but why are you fighting longbow you nefarious fiend!!! Youre hanging with blasters bringing fiery justice to evil do'ers everywhere!

Oh justice, youre the whip topping on my sundae of do good.

So if 4 out of 8 bane attacks (yes, 50%) are ranged, that makes them a ranged righter in most peoples eyes...

Well 4 out of 8 bane attacks (yes, 50%) are melee, that makes them a melee fighter in my eyes.

The bane melee attacks do more damage than their ranged attacks, that makes them a melee fighter in my eyes.

Also, complaining about crabs having better AoE than banes? Moot point, because crabs are MEANT to have more AoEs than banes.

Redraw doesn't kill you. Broadsword, Dual Blades, Claws, Spines, Assault Rifle, Dual Pistols, Trick Arrow/Archery, and every other weapon set does just fine with needing to redraw. Suck it up and stop complaining just because the so called "Epic" AT isn't a powerhouse monstrousity.

You guys complain and try and compare Banes to stalkers and Brutes in a poor atttempt to justify these buffs, but guess what? Since when do stalkers/brutes, without the help of a APP/Patron pool, get the ability to give out 10%+ to defense, damage and tohit while being able to debuff the boss enemy? Since when can stalkers/brutes do all that while being able to hide, pull out an executioner's strike on the enemy, placate the tough enemy pounding on them to get a breather, and then if they decide to, go into range and hit an enemy with a toxic DoT that also gives a -def debuff?

Oh wait, stalkers and brutes CAN'T do that. Their leadership powerpools suck, only stalkers can hide and only very few sets actually have a ranged attack, and brutes can only really do any worthwhile debuffing if they choose ghost widow and get darkest night.

Heres the thing: Arachnos Soldiers (and I mean ALL of them, "huntsman" builds, bane spiders, and crab spiders) all have a diverse mix of offense and support, be it debuffing, buffing, etc. They are not going to be the very best in any of these areas because of how much they can do. If you don't like how you can't one shot everything, then roll a stalker, brute, or scrapper. If you don't like being able to do damage while giving out some buffs, then roll a defender or controller. If you want to tank; be a tank.

So yeah. Bane spiders are fine the way they are. Crab spiders are fine the way they are.

Bane's have much higher damage potential than the other branches and they also have higher team offense boosting potential than the other branches.

All that they really need is for multiple branched versions of the powers that are mutually exclusive
In otherwords - a mace version of venom grenade, a mace version of surveillance, a mace version of WAWG, etc.

It works the other way too - a non mace version of buildup for instance.

That way you can pick the version you want which would make everyone happy regardless of the branch they select be it huntsman, bane or some configuration inbetween.

The amount of redraw on Bane's is ludicrous and entirely unnecessary with a bit of developer work.

Aside from that Banes are awesome. A bit faster casting ranged attacks would be welcome as they are currently slower than the awe inspiring power of the melee attacks and also do way less damage.