45.3%, while over the soft cap, and with 95% DDR will be safe, sure.
Till about 3 or 4 -def attacks land on you and you wind up heading into cascade failure under 45%. If you plan on tanking the ITF I'd go higher. Don't forget, however. You'll likely have a cold or an emp or some such with you as well boosting your def. I'd say test drive it and see how comfy you feel.
Personally, my MA/SR scrapper has 48% to all, and I still have elud incase I get cascaded somehow. Just personal preference.
You'll do fine with those numbers. Just hang on to a small purple for a last ditch emergency, which will rarely occur.
For me, the two things that give my lvl 50 /SR fits are Master Illusionists and Ruluruu.
rularuu are baaaaddd news.
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Defense debuffs are of little concern to a softcapped SR, especially a Brute (higher base HP and all that). Generally mobs will not be able to stack enough -def in a short enough window to drop your defense a meaningful amount - you're far more likely to die on an SR from a streak of bad luck (i.e. several hard hits in rapid succession while at the softcap) than you are from cascading defense failure.|
Originally Posted by LygerZero
45.3%, while over the soft cap, and with 95% DDR will be safe, sure.
Till about 3 or 4 -def attacks land on you and you wind up heading into cascade failure under 45%. If you plan on tanking the ITF I'd go higher. Don't forget, however. You'll likely have a cold or an emp or some such with you as well boosting your def. I'd say test drive it and see how comfy you feel. Personally, my MA/SR scrapper has 48% to all, and I still have elud incase I get cascaded somehow. Just personal preference. |
45.3% is probably not enough cushion to keep you at softcap (a -10% debuff would drop you to 44.8% after DDR is factored in), but 47-48% will generally be enough to keep cascading defense failure from being an issue (would mean you'd be able to take four to six -10% debuffs before you're dropped to the softcap). Again, a softcapped SR is much more likely to die from a series of lucky hits than they are from their defense breaking down.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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This a bazillion times over ... my claws/SR has stood inside entire rooftops worth of Cimerorans and barely seen my defense change in any significant way from debuffing. When I do die the combat logs almost always indicate I was nailed by several closely spaced hits that would have hit me even with no debuffing occurring.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Defense debuffs are of little concern to a softcapped SR, especially a Brute (higher base HP and all that). Generally mobs will not be able to stack enough -def in a short enough window to drop your defense a meaningful amount - you're far more likely to die on an SR from a streak of bad luck (i.e. several hard hits in rapid succession while at the softcap) than you are from cascading defense failure.
45.3% is probably not enough cushion to keep you at softcap (a -10% debuff would drop you to 44.8% after DDR is factored in), but 47-48% will generally be enough to keep cascading defense failure from being an issue (would mean you'd be able to take four to six -10% debuffs before you're dropped to the softcap). Again, a softcapped SR is much more likely to die from a series of lucky hits than they are from their defense breaking down. |
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Ditto.
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Originally Posted by Doomguide
This a bazillion times over ... my claws/SR has stood inside entire rooftops worth of Cimerorans and barely seen my defense change in any significant way from debuffing. When I do die the combat logs almost always indicate I was nailed by several closely spaced hits that would have hit me even with no debuffing occurring.
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It's kind of traumatic to die while Elude is up. heh.
Here is a list of potential hard/pain in the *** targets for claw/sr brute and what I did to take care of them.
Devouring Earth, the Quartz is NOT your friend. You see one of those on the ground you run for dear life! The window of taking it out while the mob attacks before you get taken out is small. Pull them away from the quartz then continue regularly scheduled beat down. Yes, you must do this everytime or you will die. Skittles are no help here.
With nemesis, you can avoid sudden death by dropping the veng triggering lt last.
Rualuu, drop the eyeballs quick fast and in a hurry
Resistance, take out the boss first.
Carnies, pop purples.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Rieze has it dead on. Same with most others. At the soft cap is fine for most of the game. Just keep some purples handy just in case.
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How big a deal is it to cap DDR? I think in order to get to the 95% you have to have all six of the DEF powers in SR at least three slotted for DEF, is that correct? I did a build where I got to the softcap without putting extra slots in the passives, but I'm worried about DDR as MIDS only shows the build at 90+%. Although now that I'm typing this I'm thinking that maybe that's because MIDS isn't seeing the character as level 50...
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Originally Posted by macskull
Defense debuffs are of little concern to a softcapped SR, especially a Brute (higher base HP and all that). Generally mobs will not be able to stack enough -def in a short enough window to drop your defense a meaningful amount - you're far more likely to die on an SR from a streak of bad luck (i.e. several hard hits in rapid succession while at the softcap) than you are from cascading defense failure.
45.3% is probably not enough cushion to keep you at softcap (a -10% debuff would drop you to 44.8% after DDR is factored in), but 47-48% will generally be enough to keep cascading defense failure from being an issue (would mean you'd be able to take four to six -10% debuffs before you're dropped to the softcap). Again, a softcapped SR is much more likely to die from a series of lucky hits than they are from their defense breaking down. |
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To add to the list, Vanguard ripped my soft-capped Scrapper a new orifice. Although I haven't had many problems myself, I hear Longbow can be tough, too.
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Originally Posted by Rieze
Here is a list of potential hard/pain in the *** targets for claw/sr brute and what I did to take care of them.
Devouring Earth, the Quartz is NOT your friend. You see one of those on the ground you run for dear life! The window of taking it out while the mob attacks before you get taken out is small. Pull them away from the quartz then continue regularly scheduled beat down. Yes, you must do this everytime or you will die. Skittles are no help here. With nemesis, you can avoid sudden death by dropping the veng triggering lt last. Rualuu, drop the eyeballs quick fast and in a hurry Resistance, take out the boss first. Carnies, pop purples. |
Dromio,
Capping DDR is what makes SR what it is. While all the other folks out there layering up the defense can have it negated in an instant, SR gets to laugh defense debuffs off.
The DDR, at least these days, stops the dreaded cascading defense failures that SR once suffered from.
So to answer the question, if you're not sitting at 95% DDR on an SR user at 50, you've done something very mean to your character.
Be well, people of CoH.
Been a few days since I've checked back on this thread, thanks for the information everyone!
To Dromio yes you need all 6 defensive powers (3 toggles, 3 autos) to get to the 95% DDR cap. Capping DDR on a /SR is imperative as it is one of the cornerstones of the set: you can stand in and around a large group of baddies knowing very little will compromise your killer defenses. In fact, it is probably the only thing that is truly unique about the set (outside of shield's ability to do similiar but apparently that's being adjusted).
Understand that the DDR values are enhancable, so if you are not fully slotting the defensive powers the DDR values will be lessened as well.
Edit: Bill beat me to the punch!
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I forgot all about vanguard. Its been a while since I've done that arc. I'll need to run it again to come up with a tactic that don't involve pulling one at a time.|
Originally Posted by Sir_Lionheart
To add to the list, Vanguard ripped my soft-capped Scrapper a new orifice. Although I haven't had many problems myself, I hear Longbow can be tough, too.
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Longbow slipped my mind too. They are pretty easy except for those mobs with more then one nullifier and hard hitting wardens that always seem to have rng of their side after your res has dropped by -60 or lower. Remember the quartz tactic?
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I'll add PPD Ghost and Equalizers, both have relative large defdebuffs and the further the Equalizers drop Acid Mortars (both -def and -resist) ... not sure if the AM is using pet base to hit, if it is this is really going to remove you from the 'soft cap'. They like to complicate the picture with 'sticky' Glue Grenade Patches making the "move away from patch" (acid mortar) thing problematic.
And special mention for Arachnos at high level, high rep ... they play nasty with tag team behavior of Tarantula Mistress (Lt) and Fortunata Mistress (Boss). Both use their own variant? of Mind Link for some +To Hit buffs ("soft cap ... yeah we'll show you soft!") then add in a strong -def in Mental Scramble followed by Psychic Wail which owing to a Boss using a nuke has a lot of +accuracy mods (1.3 and 1.4 plus level scaling mods on top of this) to hit you with a lot of psi damage which neither Tough nor scaling resists help against. The Elusive Mind accolade and the Vanguard Psi Shield can very much be your friends (running both puts you at +40% def vs Psi as I recall).
DDR is huge, and you want to max it out to 95%. Even if you don't yet have softcap DEF, capped DDR will let you keep the defense you do have. It's important.
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I didn't ask my question very well. Essentially what I was wondering was whether you have to add slots to any of those six passives and toggles to get to 95%. I've leveled my character build in MIDS to 50 (all slots are allocated and most are filled), I have all three SR toggles and all three SR passives, but MIDS still shows my DDR as being 90.9%. Do I need to add slots to the passives (the three passives are single slotted to carry LotG recharges)?|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Dromio,
Capping DDR is what makes SR what it is. While all the other folks out there layering up the defense can have it negated in an instant, SR gets to laugh defense debuffs off. The DDR, at least these days, stops the dreaded cascading defense failures that SR once suffered from. So to answer the question, if you're not sitting at 95% DDR on an SR user at 50, you've done something very mean to your character. |
I'll play with it in MIDS and see what I can find out.
EDIT: Yep, looks like I need to add slots to the passives. I have a 50 DB/SR scrapper but I never tried not slotting the passives with her. Looks like I wind up with a little more DEF than I thought I would because of those slots, but that's OK. 95.2% DDR with 47.5 melee and ranged and 46.9 AoE will be plenty for keeping me out of trouble.
EDIT NUMBER TWO: Person34 somehow understood and answered my poorly asked question! Apparently I can't write or read well! Sheesh! Thanks to all of you that answered!
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you nailed it. you do need to slot the passives to hit the 95% DDR cap and if you weren't already doing so, it will have the added benefit of pushing your defense numbers up a percentage point or so. will give you both the little extra cushion you need if hit by a debuff as well as maximum ability to shrug off that debuff
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Originally Posted by Dromio
I didn't ask my question very well. Essentially what I was wondering was whether you have to add slots to any of those six passives and toggles to get to 95%. I've leveled my character build in MIDS to 50 (all slots are allocated and most are filled), I have all three SR toggles and all three SR passives, but MIDS still shows my DDR as being 90.9%. Do I need to add slots to the passives (the three passives are single slotted to carry LotG recharges)?
I'll play with it in MIDS and see what I can find out. EDIT: Yep, looks like I need to add slots to the passives. I have a 50 DB/SR scrapper but I never tried not slotting the passives with her. Looks like I wind up with a little more DEF than I thought I would because of those slots, but that's OK. 95.2% DDR with 47.5 melee and ranged and 46.9 AoE will be plenty for keeping me out of trouble. EDIT NUMBER TWO: Person34 somehow understood and answered my poorly asked question! Apparently I can't write or read well! Sheesh! Thanks to all of you that answered! |
When I was leveling my /SR Scrapper, I despised Knives of Artemis with a passion - stupid Caltrops! Fortunately, a /SR Brute isn't likely to face KoA all that often. I only mention this because nobody else was talking about KoA, which either means that they don't spam Caltrops as much, or that it's not as threatening (not to mention humiliating) to die from 50 stacks of Caltrops in one place. Or that I was leveling back when people herded the entire Chimera map and less stupid (and today, more possible) pulls aren't gonna stack that many Caltrops.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
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Another reason I've kept fly in my build for as long as I have. Yea, KoA have some -fly as well, but they don't seem to use it much... or it keeps missing due to being SR.
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Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
When I was leveling my /SR Scrapper, I despised Knives of Artemis with a passion - stupid Caltrops! Fortunately, a /SR Brute isn't likely to face KoA all that often. I only mention this because nobody else was talking about KoA, which either means that they don't spam Caltrops as much, or that it's not as threatening (not to mention humiliating) to die from 50 stacks of Caltrops in one place. Or that I was leveling back when people herded the entire Chimera map and less stupid (and today, more possible) pulls aren't gonna stack that many Caltrops.
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Be well, people of CoH.
I hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna hijack this thread for a bit... rather than create another.
I have an Elec/SR brute who is well over softcap. I took him on an LRSF, thank God it wasn't a Master run because I must have died 5 times during the last fight. I even died with Elude and cold buffs on...
I tried to keep my Darkest Night on Statesman, since he's the last to die and the debuff would effect every Hero in the group. Is there anything else I could have done to keep from getting owned so hard? Or should I just chalk it up to 'the pitfalls of the set' and move on?
Orange and more orange till you hit your Resistance cap vs whatever the incoming damage type is. Resistance makes whatever amount of health you have go further, buys time for whatever passive regen or healing to effect you before the next and potentially fatal blow lands. More defense once you are soft capped (like Cold Shields or popping Elude might help but only if the foe is using To Hit buffs (say Numina dropping Fortitude on Babs). Your Darkest Night applies here but is heavily resisted by a level 53 AV (something like 87% .. and then the purple patch hits cutting its debuff even further).
Level 53 AV's even without any special powers, buffs etc. have a reasonably good chance to smack you do to accuracy bonuses. These accuracy mods all apply AFTER the To Hit and Defense part of the equation.
1) relative level +3 = 1.3
2) rank AV = 1.5
So you floor their To Hit to 5% (with soft capping defense, Elude, Cold or FF shields, To Hit debuffs, whatever) ... then they start in with the various Accuracy mods. The above 2 mods brings them up to nearly 10% (9.75%) then you toss in any inherent accuracy the power itself may have which when present will likely put them safely over 10% final chance to hit your soft capped build. If the power in question is one of the several Psi damage types they use you have a base of zero resistance against the attack and neither the scaling passives or Tough, if you have it help vs psi or toxic damage ... hence orange inspires.
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I run into KoA in tip missions on my claw/sr brute. The only thing that bugs me about caltrops then is waiting for them to vanish because the hostage won't be free until they do. And they drop a lot of caltrops. I chunk the fact that they are a non issue to slotting GotA run speeds in the passives. Add those with quickness, swift, and sprint and you walk right over them.
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Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
When I was leveling my /SR Scrapper, I despised Knives of Artemis with a passion - stupid Caltrops! Fortunately, a /SR Brute isn't likely to face KoA all that often. I only mention this because nobody else was talking about KoA, which either means that they don't spam Caltrops as much, or that it's not as threatening (not to mention humiliating) to die from 50 stacks of Caltrops in one place. Or that I was leveling back when people herded the entire Chimera map and less stupid (and today, more possible) pulls aren't gonna stack that many Caltrops.
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"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I'm building a claws/SR brute and so far it has been fun (lvl 25 currently). I know how powerful /SR can be, but was curious which enemy groups to be wary of later on? Offhand I know carnies (with typed psi attacks), nemesis and arachnos can be tough to handle, what other groups will give a /SR a rough time?
Also, I've put together a build that requires no IO set bonuses to cap all 3 positionals, but the defenses will be -just- over the softcap (like 45.3%). I am not taking elude on this toon, should I settle for higher defenses just to play it safe? I can imagine that even with 95% DDR a large group of romans could wittle down my armor and eventually have me popping insps and/or running away. Could I get by on just 45% or should I try and include a 2-3% buffer?
Thanks.