Back in the game .. how's PVP these days ?
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 17:44 in Everything about PvP
Bad.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
Bad.
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real bad and from the sound of pax isn't going to be dealt with till atleast i21 which probably isn't going to happen.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I don't PVP, but for some reason I feel like adding a bit more details. First, there haven't been any real changes to PVP since I 13. (They added PVP IO sets, and then mucked around with the rules governing how they drop to try to reduce AFK farming of them. If you get one and don't need it, there's a handful that sell for 2 *billion* each on the market.)
The devs have also done several "free server transfer" events, and my understanding is that many of the PVP players took advantage of this to move their PVP characters to the most populated servers. The result is that PVP on Freedom and Virtue is fairly active, and virtually dead everywhere else. Otherwise, all the changes that everyone disliked with I13 are still in effect.
As far as PVP improvements, it appears that whatever the "master plan" behind the I13 changes was, it is not only not working, but has probably been abandoned. Given that the percentage of the playerbase that PVPs dropped from "an amount small enough that the devs don't mind making them *all* angry" to a fraction of that amount, it seems possible that their datamining is showing that such a small number of players use PVP that The Powers That Be have decided it's not worth spending any more time or effort on fixing it at all.
There is virtually no PVP on Virtue. (*rimshot*)
Thanks for the responses.
I kind of had a feeling that PVP hadn't picked up again, but was hoping that I was wrong.
One wonders if Positron etc will ever just admit that it was a bad mistake and revert to pre I13 for PVP .. lol 
Still, at least the Ill/Rad is good for PvE too .. unless something has changed THERE too :P
Fahie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fahie
Thanks for the responses.
I kind of had a feeling that PVP hadn't picked up again, but was hoping that I was wrong. One wonders if Positron etc will ever just admit that it was a bad mistake and revert to pre I13 for PVP .. lol Still, at least the Ill/Rad is good for PvE too .. unless something has changed THERE too :P Fahie |
they have said several times that "they" will not go back to i12 that is is not an option.
its funny they said that they will not go back.. but thats the only thing that would really fix pvp is to go back to i12..
Only thing worth keeping is the mez and toggle changes.. cause lets face it pre i13 the only outliner that made pvp ridiculous was permadoms.. and thats all the devs needed to fix.. + a lil power and melee tweaking here and there and the game would have been fine..
but nooooo lets have a brilliant idea of making your powers that you practice on in pve not work in pvp.. hmm that would attrack non hardcore pvpers yaaaaaah!!!
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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Yeah, because getting stunned for 8 seconds and not being able to do anything about it is so much better than teaming with an Emp or carrying Breakfrees.
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Originally Posted by IronAlex
Only thing worth keeping is the mez and toggle changes.. cause lets face it pre i13 the only outliner that made pvp ridiculous was permadoms..
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
^^ This ( squared )|
Originally Posted by macskull
Yeah, because getting stunned for 8 seconds and not being able to do anything about it is so much better than teaming with an Emp or carrying Breakfrees.
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And yes, I remember that *they* said that reverting to i12 pvp would never happen, but I'm highly unlikely to reactivate my second account without it.
Think ncsoft ... that's another 9 pounds a month that you aren't getting .. nyah nyah nyah !
Gutted that they never brought in a "I12 PVP" button for the arena :P
Quote:
oh dont get me wrong.. gettin mezzed for 8 sec.. is nothing..|
Originally Posted by macskull
Yeah, because getting stunned for 8 seconds and not being able to do anything about it is so much better than teaming with an Emp or carrying Breakfrees.
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getting dominated for about 30 seconds is another...
either case they could have just fixed domination and left everything else the same for i13, and the game would have been waaaaaaay better.
domination and fortunatas killed i12.. which led to i13 and what we have now
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
Quote:
Doms and Forts were overpowered yes, but they certainly weren't unbeatable by any stretch.|
Originally Posted by IronAlex
oh dont get me wrong.. gettin mezzed for 8 sec.. is nothing..
getting dominated for about 30 seconds is another... either case they could have just fixed domination and left everything else the same for i13, and the game would have been waaaaaaay better. domination and fortunatas killed i12.. which led to i13 and what we have now |
But I agree, balancing them would have been FAR better than I13.
I find it insane that this conversation is going on 18 months later ( or however long it's been since I13 )
There are still no posts saying "PVP is great now, leave it as it is".
There are still lots of posts saying "PVP sucks now"
It really is a no-brainer isn't it. NCSoft ... do you want more money? If the answer is "yes", eat humble pie and revert the pvp changes.
You'll make quite a few people happy, very *very* few people sad and you will have more subs.
Fahie
Quote:
/signed|
Originally Posted by Fahie
Doms and Forts were overpowered yes, but they certainly weren't unbeatable by any stretch.
But I agree, balancing them would have been FAR better than I13. I find it insane that this conversation is going on 18 months later ( or however long it's been since I13 ) There are still no posts saying "PVP is great now, leave it as it is". There are still lots of posts saying "PVP sucks now" It really is a no-brainer isn't it. NCSoft ... do you want more money? If the answer is "yes", eat humble pie and revert the pvp changes. You'll make quite a few people happy, very *very* few people sad and you will have more subs. Fahie |
i was one of those that left after i 13 and waited for CO.. i just recently came back.. because a friend said he wanted to come back to test out whats new.. and it makes me wonder why i even did. Champions online had its prob.. but at least it seems there devs listen to the pvpers.
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
Quote:
I'm back because of GR, but only on one account.|
Originally Posted by IronAlex
/signed
i was one of those that left after i 13 and waited for CO.. i just recently came back.. because a friend said he wanted to come back to test out whats new.. and it makes me wonder why i even did. Champions online had its prob.. but at least it seems there devs listen to the pvpers. |
My other account had my pvp-trainees on it. I see no point in reactivating it for GR, even though it's very good PVE content.
Fahie
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They also said they'd never merge the markets. |
Originally Posted by IronAlex
they said that they will not go back
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Here, have some salt, just in case (but don't bet any money on it).
The more telling point (to me), is that they did, willingly and intentionally,
ignore and alienate the previous PvP community, and at this point, there
really isn't much of a community to speak of, or ignore now...
There's really little way for the devs to even justify socking dev hours into
PvP at this point. It's highly doubtful any changes they make now would
result in more subscribers - certainly not compared to a project like GR.
Add that to the simple fact that they truly don't understand what *would*
make PvP better to begin with.
Why do I believe that? Simple.
They "wanted" (based on the commentary) casual PvE players to get
involved in PvP, and their solution???
1> Let those casual players spend 25-50 levels learning their toon only to
discover that nothing they learned actually applies to the PvP game. Their
key powers, buffs, and movement ALL behave differently, and that doesn't
even consider mindset and tactics, which differ vastly from PvE AI.
That's not a learning curve, it's a parachute drop from 12,000 ft - without the chute.
2> Provided minimal reason or reward to face the risks of PvP... Shivans
are nice, Nukes aren't worth the trouble, and heck I've never even bothered
with a Heavy... PVPIO's? Sure, they're pretty nice too, but a lot of "casual"
players, that the devs say they want to entice, are still on SO's, never
mind sets, or specialty/luxury IOs.
None of these rewards offset the problems of point #1.
3> Drove away the folks who were actually interested and enthusiastic
about PvP and could (and willingly did) contribute useful knowledge about it.
I won't say "never" (due to the market comment above), but my practical
expectation is a statistically close approximation to never...
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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The difference is you could do something about the latter, while these days you can have 10 CMs stacked on you and eat a tray full of tier 3 breakfrees and you'll still get mezzed.|
Originally Posted by IronAlex
oh dont get me wrong.. gettin mezzed for 8 sec.. is nothing..
getting dominated for about 30 seconds is another... |
I'd much rather have to manage my Break Frees or team with someone who could give me mez protection than not be able to do anything about being mezzed. The duration of mezzes post-I13 isn't the problem, it's that you're able to do literally nothing to prevent them.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I like how baddos still think doms and forts were op. Man I am glad I will be having some time to play this great game again soon.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
How soon is soon? 
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Nah. The only things that could really beat a half decent fort (in i12) were a devices blaster who wasn't bad enough to take the auto turret, or a spines/regen who actually brought BFs and had four ranged attacks. That said, there were plenty of things that Forts just couldn't kill, even if the Fort wouldn't die against them (Pretty much any rad).|
Originally Posted by Fahie
Doms and Forts were overpowered yes, but they certainly weren't unbeatable by any stretch.
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That said, the mez system was never really the reason for that. The new mez system is pretty much worse in every way, mostly for the reasons given by macskull.
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Originally Posted by macskull
How soon is soon?
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I get days off this week for the first time in a while. With any luck I will be in game today or tomorrow.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
I for one welcome our new PvP Dev overlords.
Since I13 PvP has been a SMASHING success. There are even more powersets viable in PvP, teaming is a must, communication is required, there's a lot of skill involved, and powers act the same way in PvP as they do in PvE!!!!!
/sarcasm
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Funny thing is, there are so few decent PvPers left that a half decent fort still does just as well. Only difference is, the things that they can't beat has changed.|
Originally Posted by Zeta Orionis
Nah. The only things that could really beat a half decent fort (in i12) were a devices blaster who wasn't bad enough to take the auto turret, or a spines/regen who actually brought BFs and had four ranged attacks.
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Can't beat
SS/x/Earth Tanks - Too much hp/damage mitigation to defeat any well built tank. Throw in the insane damage done with the earth app and rage, and Forts don't stand a chance.
/Regen - Good ones are virtually impossible to kill because of Fort's low damage. Bad ones, which most are, aren't too difficult
/Thermal - There is no way for a fort to mitigate the -recovery from heat loss.
Rad/ Blasters - Reasonable damage and defense debuffs in every attack. If they're not bad, it should be an easy win for them.
Even matches
/Rad - Big debuffs, but offset by fort's dominate. These fights go either way.
/Cold - Good debuffs, but they need to hit first. These fights go either way.
Fire/ blaster - Puts out good damage that isn't mitigated like psi. Slight advantage to the Fort, but can go either way.
Non ss/x/earth tanks - Still high mitigation vs fort's low damage. Without rage to help hit, and fossilize to damage, advantage Fort (If you can stay awake long enough to take out all the hp)
Fire/Fire dom - I've only fought one of these guys, but he was pretty tough. Looking at it on paper its pretty even. Still advantage to the Fort.
Elec/ stalker - Very few stalkers can stand to a decent fort, but since elec has the aoe based attacks they stand a chance.
Easy Wins
Pretty much everything else.
Even with all the nerfs Forts have taken, they're still pretty competitive. I think they're pretty balanced toons. Lower damage, reasonable damage mitigation. They have their weaknesses but have strengths also. The biggest downside is the investment to make them competitive is pretty steep.
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we got new pvp dev overlords?
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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
I for one welcome our new PvP Dev overlords.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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It's odd - I'd have expected to see a lot more Forts/Banes as Stalker spotters since I18 launched, but it's been almost a month and I can count the number of them I've seen on one hand.
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Originally Posted by LuxunS
Even with all the nerfs Forts have taken, they're still pretty competitive. I think they're pretty balanced toons. Lower damage, reasonable damage mitigation. They have their weaknesses but have strengths also. The biggest downside is the investment to make them competitive is pretty steep.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I'm sure no-one will remember me on these boards, but I'm back and playing CoH after more than a years absence ( gotta love GR
)
The important question is, how's PvP looking these days since I hung up the sparring gloves after the I13 debacle?
Specifically, has anything happened with DR, suppression and so forth ?
Fahie