Known issue. At this time only heroes or villains created in Paragon or the Rogue Isles originally can unlock Epic ATs.
What we don't know is what behavior constitutes the bug. It could be the fact that the epic ATs aren't unlocked or it could be that they erroneously tell you they are unlocked.
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I'm fairly sure that it's erroneously telling people the epic ATs are unlocked, for characters that have started in Praetoria.
At least, until they get the epic archetype unlock system revamped and fixed. Right now it, like other "side dependent" things such as supergroup membership etc, is broken and not working, due to the indeterminacy of not knowing which 'side' the character is really on when it hits level 20.
Confirmed by a GM that praetorians levelling to 20 do not unlock epic archetypes for whichever side they happen to choose.
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I'm actually quite surprised by this. For a new player it would mean they would have to level an alt to 20 in either Paragon/Rogue Isles just to unlock an epic AT even if they have a 20.|
Originally Posted by Mackie
Confirmed by a GM that praetorians levelling to 20 do not unlock epic archetypes for whichever side they happen to choose.
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I think once the character crosses over the rift and is firmly either hero or villain, epic ATs should unlock. Hopefully, they'll change their decision on this one.
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Why should a new player just crossing over to Paragon/Rogue Isles be able to create an archetype that is deeply embedded in the lore of a place they have only just begun to explore? |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I'm actually quite surprised by this. For a new player it would mean they would have to level an alt to 20 in either Paragon/Rogue Isles just to unlock an epic AT even if they have a 20.
I think once the character crosses over the rift and is firmly either hero or villain, epic ATs should unlock. Hopefully, they'll change their decision on this one. |
If anything, I think the restriction for new Praetorians who have never started a character in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles at least provides a logical restriction. It also encourages players to begin characters in the Rogue Isles and Paragon City at least once in order to gain an opportunity to experience the respective storylines from their genesis.
If players want access to the VEATs/HEATs *without* ever leveling a character from the start in Paragon City/Rogue Isles, I could see a compromise by granting Praetoria-only characters such access at 50. By the time they reach 50, they would have come into contact with story arcs/task forces that offer exposure to the lore behind the Kheldian War/Arachnos Heirarchy.
Yes, this is a lore-based argument for retaining such a restriction. I think lore-based arguments help reinforce the VEATs/HEATs as "Epic" in that they expand upon lore and are deeply invested in the storyline of the game. Keep in mind that this would only be a restriction for people who haven't played through the 1-20 storyline of the city prior to GR.
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I agree with this. |
Originally Posted by Mind_Over_Matter
Why should a new player just crossing over to Paragon/Rogue Isles be able to create an archetype that is deeply embedded in the lore of a place they have only just begun to explore?
If anything, I think the restriction for new Praetorians who have never started a character in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles at least provides a logical restriction. It also encourages players to begin characters in the Rogue Isles and Paragon City at least once in order to gain an opportunity to experience the respective storylines from their genesis. If players want access to the VEATs/HEATs *without* ever leveling a character from the start in Paragon City/Rogue Isles, I could see a compromise by granting Praetoria-only characters such access at 50. By the time they reach 50, they would have come into contact with story arcs/task forces that offer exposure to the lore behind the Kheldian War/Arachnos Heirarchy. Yes, this is a lore-based argument for retaining such a restriction. I think lore-based arguments help reinforce the VEATs/HEATs as "Epic" in that they expand upon lore and are deeply invested in the storyline of the game. Keep in mind that this would only be a restriction for people who haven't played through the 1-20 storyline of the city prior to GR. |
And I think a good compromise is having a 50 Praetorian. The new level 20 restriction is for new Hero/Villain.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Here is the thing, the argument that they are so ingrained to the story on either side is moot since by 20 a new player on hero or villain hasn't seen much or any of the kheldian's story. As far as arachnos soldiers, they are a dime a dozen and not really heavily story driven as much as mobs that tend to populate many stories.
Also making it a 50 praetorian unlock is silly since you cant have a 50 praetorian without just parking a praet and constantly EXing down to people. That is not something a new player is going to want to do...
The reasoning behind lowering the levels to unlock these ATs is to make them more accessible. I say just let if flag on the first side a praet chooses. Pick hero when you come out the portal and you get the hero EAT, if you switch to villain it doesn't count because your first choice was hero. That way they would have to carry two guys to 20 to unlock both EATs just like anyone who doesn't have GR.
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But therein lies the issue. From what I can tell the game is coded to check for the required level first and then the alignment. Because Praetorians don't have a hero/villain alignment until post level 20 the code ignores them. It still delivers the message because a level 20 character is on the account. That's an oversight that probably wasn't considered during Going Rogue's development.|
Originally Posted by JaxomDad
The reasoning behind lowering the levels to unlock these ATs is to make them more accessible. I say just let if flag on the first side a praet chooses. Pick hero when you come out the portal and you get the hero EAT, if you switch to villain it doesn't count because your first choice was hero. That way they would have to carry two guys to 20 to unlock both EATs just like anyone who doesn't have GR.
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Personally, I don't think having a level 20 Praetorian should unlock either side's EATs. I think they should remove the message so as not to confuse and disappoint players but if you wanna play an EAT then roll up a level 1 hero or villain. I'm sure that's unpopular with most people but I was also opposed to lowering the level requirement so meh.
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Seriously though folks - do you really think it makes sense for the dev's to design this bright, shiny new set of starter zones and then, after 20 levels of bright and shiny, tell new players that they have to go through all the old, not so shiny, frequently painfull content to unlock the 2 special AT's?
I think its a HUGE mistake to force them to do this. Considering that its only the new players that are going to be hit by this - even someone who has been playing for just a little while prior to GR will already have characters on either or both sides its the new folks who picked up GR with the promise of the cool, new zones as an improved starter area that will then have to go back to the old, sad zones.
Also, for these new folks, the 1-20 ride is also NOT going to be the 'fast' 'easy' ride that all the folks praising the dev's for yet another silly decision like to claim. They are NOT going to have a large community of in game friends to PL them, they are not going be familiar with all the easy ways to level, especially through things like the old, stale blueside content. Redside won't be as bad at least, it is still a fairly nice ride although I expect a lot of folks will be turned off by the dingyness of the zones, especially after the bright shiny of Praetoria.
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TL;DR|
Originally Posted by EricHough
Seriously though folks - do you really think it makes sense for the dev's to design this bright, shiny new set of starter zones and then, after 20 levels of bright and shiny, tell new players that they have to go through all the old, not so shiny, frequently painfull content to unlock the 2 special AT's?
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Yes. Seriously. Because it is a healthy business practice that encourages the longevity of the game.
*You* have personal opinions about the leveling journey in Paragon and the Rogue Isles just as any veteran player may have experienced. However, not everyone has the same playing experience. Some enjoy the earlier story arcs and the early task forces/strike forces. New players should at least be encouraged to try these for themselves. Plus, they would have an incentive to do so.
It makes little sense for a new player just entering Paragon City or the Rogue Isles from another dimension to be immediately given access to Archetypes that are tied directly to storylines in the Primal Earth dimension. Yes, this means new players would "miss out" unless they make a new character (or level that Praetorian-born character to 50 in Primal Earth). But these new players would also not know what/who these archetypes were yet anyway. There should be a learning curve because such archetypes didn't exist in Praetoria. At least allow the game to introduce them to these archetypes before just throwing "unmerited new shiny" at them.
Of course I believe the Devs would still want new players to go through the old content at some point. The content still exists! If the player is new, they haven't played such content before. NBC got away with airing reruns under the banner "If you haven't seen it, it's new to you." This is what makes Praetoria "additional content" and not a mere revamp. It's "more content." If you don't encourage new players to go through content they have yet to experience, you are effectively decreasing their exposure to content.
Also, the first 20 levels shouldn't be a "fast and easy ride" anyway. The *only* people who should be clamoring for a means to a quick route to 20 are the veterans who have already done the 1-20 arcs repeatedly (or bypassed them and yet criticize them anyway). New players will have nothing but Praetoria to compare things to. That's great! They can then offer feedback as to how to improve the earlier story arcs in Paragon. But they can do so from their *own* experiences.
The point to lowering the level to 20 was not just to give access to the V/HEATs away. They would have otherwise just made them available from the start. The point was to get players invested in the story of City of Heroes and then reward these players with archetypes rooted in the lore of the game.
I cringe every time someone suggests throwing out prerequisites simply to ease what they as an individual want, regardless of whether the prerequisites make any sense. This game is filled with Accolades, unlockable contacts, and badges tied to having actually done something at least tangentially related to the reward. I can understand adjusting some of the more laborious requirements like the old Illusionists or Heal badges, but I stand by the idea of having badge requirements.
If all players are encouraged to try all of the story arcs in the game, then all players can have personal experiences from which to make suggestions that can further enhance the game. They can also invest more time in exploring the game so as to avoid burnout from repetition. This can both encourage new players to experience the game for themselves as well as offer newer perspectives as to what the Devs can improve upon.
Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
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Yup. YMMV, but I find both red and blue side substantially less annoying to reach 20 on than Praetoria. There's more bells and whistles in Praetoria and more meaningful storytelling, but it's not any better from a mechanical perspective.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
Seriously though folks - do you really think it makes sense for the dev's to design this bright, shiny new set of starter zones and then, after 20 levels of bright and shiny, tell new players that they have to go through all the old, not so shiny, frequently painfull content to unlock the 2 special AT's?
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| I think its a HUGE mistake to force them to do this. Considering that its only the new players that are going to be hit by this - even someone who has been playing for just a little while prior to GR will already have characters on either or both sides its the new folks who picked up GR with the promise of the cool, new zones as an improved starter area that will then have to go back to the old, sad zones. |
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| Also, for these new folks, the 1-20 ride is also NOT going to be the 'fast' 'easy' ride that all the folks praising the dev's for yet another silly decision like to claim. They are NOT going to have a large community of in game friends to PL them, they are not going be familiar with all the easy ways to level, especially through things like the old, stale blueside content. Redside won't be as bad at least, it is still a fairly nice ride although I expect a lot of folks will be turned off by the dingyness of the zones, especially after the bright shiny of Praetoria. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Plus 3 task forces, safeguard missions and the associated perks of early jet packs etc.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Blue side pushes new players to the Hollows, the Midnighter Arc, and Faultline which makes the ride to 20 solo or teams extremely easy and enjoyable. This lunacy that Blue side is so "stale" is a constant surprise to me.
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Hello all.. I just hit 20 and moved from GR to Rogue Isles my game then said EPIC ARCHETYPE UNLOCKED... however I can't make the Arachnos Archetypes. WHY!?