In-game reward for teaming with newbs
By
Berzerker_NA,
Posted on: 2010-08-31 21:02 in Suggestions and Ideas
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There is a rather large difference between "being welcomed" and "vet players looking to maximize their rewards grabbing you and telling you to stay put while they destroy this map because it increases their rewards". The system you have in mind wouldn't do anything to make vet players welcome new players any more than giving level 50s greater rewards for having lowbies on their team.|
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Imagine the difference for newbs between being merely tolerated vs. being welcomed.
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Honestly, I've never seen much in the way of an anti-newbie sentiment (which is not the same as an anti-noob sentiment) amongst the CoX player base. In general, as long as someone is willing to admit that they're new to the game and want to learn about the strategies and mechanisms involved in the game, most players will teach them everything they need to know. The only times that I ever see veteran elitism are when running content and the newbie in question is an AE/farm baby (which generally tend to be players that obviously have no grasp of how the game actually works and stubbornly insist that they are the most intelligent people on the planet despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) or the team is question is attempting to do a speed or master run (which a newbie shouldn't really be on in the first place). Other than those conditions, it's generally more along the lines of "You're new? Here, let me help you. You really want this power, this power and this power. That one is rather pointless. Try doing this instead of that while you're fighting. How are you slotted? Try this slotting mentality. You don't have the money? Here's a few million to get you started."
I think you've taken the concept and twisted it into a mixed-up caricature of what I was trying to say. I wasn't suggesting that absolutely every player on every server always does what I said. Nor was I suggesting that absolutely every player on every server would suddenly change. Nor was I even suggesting that in absolutely all cases, the hoped for behavior will result. When analyzing human behavior, you have to use a statistical approach, because human beings are inherently chaotic. The question is: "will the desired result happen more often or less often, and to what degree?" Not: "Will the desired result absolutely always happen?" If the statistical probability of any given newb receiving an invitation to team during a given playing session increases, then the appearance of other friendly players increases from their perspective.
Certainly some vets will try and get newbs to just stand in for them (which they do a lot of anyway). Other vets will actively recruit newbs into their SG's and such, to have them along on their adventures. The fortunate thing about using Vet badges instead of character level to determine the reward is that your mentors benefit if they actually teach you, because then you pull your own weight *and* add bonuses.
I've been invited onto quite a few teams where the inviters told me point blank that they wouldn't have bothered if my vet badges hadn't shown I had at least a year of experience. Odds are they would be polite enough not to tell a newb they were being denied an invitation on the basis of their badges. (The newb just wouldn't be contacted in the first place.)
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Nope, I'm taking the concept you had and then applying a gains oriented mentality to it to see how poorly it would actually work out. Just look at AE and all of the stuff that has happened to it. Any system that provides you with a method of acquiring more by altering how you play or who you play with is going to be exploited beyond all imagining.|
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I think you've taken the concept and twisted it into a mixed-up caricature of what I was trying to say.
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You're proposing a system that would encourage veteran players to have new players on their team. Just being on a team with a vet (especially one that would actually care about any additional in-game benefit for having a non-vet on a team) will do nothing to teach a new player about the game so it's not encouraging the desired behavior. If anything, it would get new players onto teams with vets that are more interested in rewards than onto teams with vets that are actually interested in teaching people (whether new or old) how the game works because the reward focused individuals are going to go out of their way to get new players on their team (to maximize rewards) while the altruistic players are more likely to just go about their normal playstyle and assist new players in their traditional manner (because they're not out for the massive payout).
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| When analyzing human behavior, you have to use a statistical approach, because human beings are inherently chaotic. |
Please note that nowhere did I actually use any absolute terms so your attempt to lecture me on statistic is completely pointless. I assure you, I know statistics. I do statistics for fun. I also do psychology, so attempting to lecture me there is similarly pointless.
The problem with your entire concept is that you're assuming a lot about how players would actually use the system.
The first problem is, quite explicitly, that you're attempting to attach a definitive in-game reward for something that the players that you're attempting to encourage are already doing largely due to altruistic motives that wouldn't be substantially bolstered by attaching an in-game reward to it. By attaching an in-game reward to it, you're not making it any more likely that the people that already do it with altruistic motives will continue to do so. The only people that you're really going to encourage to perform this behavior are those people that care about maximizing rewards.
The second problem is that you're not encouraging the correct behavior. The only behavior you're encouraging is having new players on team. There is a very big difference between simply having new players around and actually teaching them about the game. Just look at the AE and all that it did to the new player base.
If you honestly want to design a reward system, you have to look at the behavior you're rewarding in the first place. You haven't. If you had, you would actually realize how bad this idea actually is.
as much as i would like to enjoy a reward increase for playing with newbie players, i would have to agree with umbral on this matter
applying this would be another AE apocalypse basically, but instead of it spitting out newbies with 50s who dont know how to leave atlas, it would spit out newbie players who dont know why they were invited tothe team and then kicked for helping out and the confused and/or frustrated newbies may want to quit the game cause they met up with the 65% playerbase looking for higher rewards (the other 35% of the playerbase would be all the people who would be willing to help out regardless) (disclaimer, the values stated are pure hypothesis and not literal facts)
i do understand that you are trying to help out the newbies get to know this game better, but this course of action is the wrong one
the best options as umbral mentioned of answering questions, escorting them to a place they were looking for, giving them a few mil since inf isnt all that hard to come by
if you are interested in doing something to help newbies, you can join the mentor project, which is to help assist new players learn where things are and how things work
I'm wondering where this vets not teaming with newb mentality is.
I haven't done it. I haven't seen anyone do it.
I still see some "We need this or that to run this TF" but none of this "no newbies" thing.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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^ This|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm wondering where this vets not teaming with newb mentality is.
I haven't done it. I haven't seen anyone do it. I still see some "We need this or that to run this TF" but none of this "no newbies" thing. |
/Unsigned to the suggested idea. It just...no. Sorry. Don't see that working at all.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm a veteran player and while I agree with the sentiment behind this suggestion (helping vet/noob relations) I really don't think we need the game hardwired with enticements to encourage vets to "farm" for noobs. Sadly some people would abuse this no matter how well intentioned it is.
The only reason I typically don't team with new players is because maybe 98% of the time I'm playing my level 50 characters for badges or merits. Basically I'm doing things that most new players aren't even close to being ready for or care to be involved with. I have nothing against them specifically - it's just that I usually have no legitimate reason to "hang out" with them.
Now if you're the type of person who likes to actively help low level characters and/or new players then that's great. More power to you and all that. But if you're not the type of person inclined to do that then I'd only see the game "encouraging" us to be helpful more as an annoyance than anything else.
P.S. For the record I'll pretty much play with any reasonable person no matter their vet/noob status. About the only exception I can think of for that is during a "Master TF/SF" run where single death can ruin it. I think its reasonable to be picky about that kind of team all things considered. Beyond that it's all good.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm wondering where this vets not teaming with newb mentality is.
I haven't done it. I haven't seen anyone do it. I still see some "We need this or that to run this TF" but none of this "no newbies" thing. |
Agreeing with this too. If anything, IME lately, I have had players saying this is the first time running such-and-such. If anything, I don't even use my vet temp powers if I am with new players so to not appear showing off or flaunting it.
I would like to hear the OP's definition of "a lot" and "quite a few teams". Just how much of the overall population does the OP knows or has teamed with - 1%, 5%, 50%, more? Same server, different servers, daily, hourly? This would put in perspective what "a lot" is and how much of a problem it is.
ive never had a problem teaming with new people unless they really do my nut (normally their attiude- but the same can be said for vets as well.)
Though sometimes it annoys me with all the questions they ask- but this is normally only briefy and overall im happy to help them out.
Anyone who doesnt want to team with someone clearly on the basis that their new..are just players who r stuck up their own @@@.
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wow... i actually agree with brandx on this. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm wondering where this vets not teaming with newb mentality is.
I haven't done it. I haven't seen anyone do it. I still see some "We need this or that to run this TF" but none of this "no newbies" thing. |
eleventy bajillion% /unsigned to this idea.
well I've came across some anti newb teams and of course it's just my experiences. I'm sure I havent played on majority of the teams just as people that say they never seen it probably aint played with majority of the player base as well. I've seen it happen jus tas often as I've seen anti-scrapper teams/players and anti-teaming with stalkers teams/players. It's not majority of the people but remember just like laws. The laws wasnt made because majority of the people was doing the wrong thing ,they was made people you have that few 1%-0.5% doing the wrong things. It's the bad apples that get the attention. You hardly ever see people post on a board, hey so and so is no nice or so and so is cool. Or even "I came across this friendly hero thoday..."nah, you here, this noob that newb did this did that. That idiot did somethng crazy. and etc."
I just hope for the new players that experienced that, realize that is not the sentiment for 99%-99.5% of the people I came across and there are majority new guy friendly people on this game. Dont let the bad few ruin ya fun. So tell your buddies to come on back and give it another shot.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
The whole goal of trying to attract new players is retention, right? And yet, I've noticed online that a lot of people really don't want to team with newbs. They'll actually open up your badges and look at them to make sure you're a veteran player before they let you join their team sometimes. And why shouldn't they? Veterans know the game strategy better, and your whole gaming session runs more smoothly when you're with a group of people who know what they're doing.
But, what does this mean for retention? It's bad news. New players need to immediately be taken under the wing of experienced players, so they can make friends, and get some successful playing hours under their belt, which will make them want to re-subscribe next month.
So, I'm suggesting that maybe vets should get some kind of experience/Inf reward (or an increased drop rate - which would make most vets drool.) for putting up with newbs on their team. (Ideally not just power leveling them up to high levels either..). Maybe they should earn bonus Merits when they bring a player with fewer vet badges with them on a Task/Strike Force. If the rewards were interesting/substantial enough, then veteran players would be actively seeking out newby players to join their teams for the bonus rewards.
Imagine the difference for newbs between being merely tolerated vs. being welcomed.