Regen inferior to Willpower?

Hey all, first off this isn't a whine, just an honest question to those that are more knowledgeable than me.

I'm wanting to make a new scrapper and decided on Regen since I already have a Willpower. After playing around with it in Mid's Designer, I'm seeing that they both have the same regeneration. This is with just 50 IOs, not sets. Am I missing something? Willpower would have even higher regeneration with RttC being surrounded by mobs, and has defense, resists, and -regen defense.

I'm not factoring in Instant Healing, since it's not up all the time. Is that really all Regen has going for it, waiting for IH to be up? Again, I'm not whining or trying to start a fight, I'm just confused.

Sorry
I mean you and mid's are right !

Rttc satured will grant more regen than a regen with only passive / toggle.

Now it's not really the point to compare only this, till top of that WP got soem resist / def that will grant even more mitigation and regen got a lot of other power to play with.

I'd like to stick up for ol' Regen a little bit, in a non-argumentative kind of way. Base regen isn't all there is in the equation. Granted WP has the added resistance/defense, but it does not have the power to click an icon and get half of your HP bar back, as with regen's reconstruction. With just SOs, this would be up every 30 seconds, but in the world of IOs it's up under 20.

Another thing with regeneration rates is that the most important factor aside from your % is how large your HP pool is. A Regen scrapper will get to the HP cap with minimal effort, perma DP is very easy to get anymore and a few set bonuses/accolades will have you sitting at 2400+ HP in no time. WP would have to try very hard and sacrifice much to hit the cap on a scrapper. With Their innate HP boost and 3 SOs, they still need to scrape together 50% HP boost to make it to cap.

Instant Healing is a beast, of course, and it is loved. In the era of IOs/Sets it can be up more or less half the time, 90 seconds on, 90 seconds off. Then having MoG up nearly every minute to eat alphas is awesome.

I'm still a WP fan as it has many possibilities, I just felt that you were asking for the strengths of Regen, so there you go.

It's debatable which is the better of the two sets. WP has a very flat level of performance while Regen varies greatly depending on your personal skill level. WP has some debuff resistances and lives off of toggles whereas Regen has no debuff resistances and lives pretty much entirely off of click powers, so Regen is going to be substantially more affected by what buffs and debuffs are getting thrown on you.

In general, assuming an average level of skill (from a performance perspective, not from a population perspective) fighting an average enemy group (re: not mega hard on debuffs), WP and Regen will perform roughly the same, with WP getting a slight edge due to not using up any appreciable amount of animation time. Assuming a high level of skill, Regen wins hands down because Regen actually offers you the tools to leverage that higher player skill to a significant degree (though in debuff heavy scenarios, you're going to get hosed because the lack of debuff resistance in Regen sucks miserably).

Yup, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks to all of you, going to make my new Regen scrapper later today.

My experience (no special slotting) is that while both have more or less equal regen depending on how many enemies buff up RttC, my Regen scrapper regenerates more hit points per second consistently because of Dull Pain.

But it seems that Regen would benefit greatly from global recharge. The clicks don't last long enough and take too long to recharge. Versus EB's I'm always getting into trouble in the last 10% of the EB's hit points or so because everything is running out and hasn't recharged yet. My fight versus Shadowhunter last night was very dispiriting.

My Regen dinged 44 last night and I'm ready to do something, anything, to make her a bit better. I'd love to see a cheap build or two (if there is such a thing). That would help get me started.

Before the last issue, Willpower with it's ability to cap was much better barring Divine Avalanche or Parry. After the latest issue Regen with Shadowmeld will be slightly better until they change Shadowmeld. While most of the other top performers already cap or near to it and can't leverage a large defense boost on some of the time, Shadowmeld plays wonderfully into Regen. Soooooo good.

Shadowmeld, on the other hand, does nothing for my capped SR, Shield, WP, Dark Armor, or Invuln scrappers.

Regen is now one of the best secondaries if you are willing to temporarily go villain side to pick up Shadowmeld.

Edit: Changed language. I used overpowered but I meant slightly better than Regen, not in need of nerf.

I have nothing to add, but wanted to say that this thread thus far is unusually helpful due to those who have posted hard numbers (particularly Umbral) and solid advice (various others). Good info, thanks!

Agreed although the idea that I *must* (or even should) take the fighting pool to survive solo makes me sad.

Bring back toggle IH. Even that never made up for the lack of a regen debuff resistance.

Back in the day, I know regen could do some crazy stuff. However with all the new secondary additions, rebalancing to the old secondaries when was the last thing anything was done to regen. It took more hits then any other secondary for a long time.

For me, there come a point in time where I have to stop looking at someone saying "the numbers show this" and say, but regen is no longer fun for me. It used to be fun, but when they basically revamped it from a toggle to a clickie set, it just went meh. The fact that it appears that devs don't want to address the set and sometimes seem to act as if they wish it had never been created is annoying, to put it mildly.