What I did in this mission was kept running, let some get close to me, and with Martial Arts I could put them down in a few hits, or smack them in Hidden mode with one of my non AS attacks to defeat them. By running towards them and jumping over, you strike them while hidden and gain distance to get running again. You can then use the TPN sign if you have some form of +Jump/Fly power to rest up on.
Kin/Nin, I don't seem to have the ability to put them down that fast. My current plan is that I accepted the mission, now I'm going to go level to 17, get level 20 enhancements and possibly some set bonuses, and then come back and try for it.
The issue is that Ambushes are spawned at specific locations and granted high amounts of aggro in order to ensure they go -towards- the people they're ambushing.
Since they're aggroed, Stealth is useless.
You could, conceivably set ambush spawns to run from point a on a map to point b on a map, but then you have to worry about players not being between point A and B, which means the ambush just ran off in some random direction in relation to the players on the map.
The only suggestion I can think of is making ambushes into invisible map critters that, when aggroed, spawn a group of allies around them, much like the Seers of Praetoria. Though that would allow stealthed players to avoid ambushes completely and renders some missions uncompleteable -unless- the player unstealths to trigger an invisible entity's aggro, which completely negates the point of -having- stealth, since the entity would summon the ambush in it's immediate vicinity... Right next to the stealthy character who just detoggled their stealth power.
As you can see: There is no way to set up ambushes which go to the group yet do not ignore stealth.
-Rachel-
I would accept stalkers being single-target killing machines, with the ability to move in and out of hide at a moments notice, as long as they are even squishier than blasters, but I digress.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Some do. There are three types, it seems - |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
The issue is that Ambushes are spawned at specific locations and granted high amounts of aggro in order to ensure they go -towards- the people they're ambushing.
Since they're aggroed, Stealth is useless. You could, conceivably set ambush spawns to run from point a on a map to point b on a map, but then you have to worry about players not being between point A and B, which means the ambush just ran off in some random direction in relation to the players on the map. |
- Go to a specific point.
- Go to where you were when they were spawned.
- Follow the player.
The last one's the type the OP's trying to deal with - and I'd have to make a suggestion similar to Zortel. (And if you haven't run a Stalker before, you're going to have to deal with similar tactics vs. Rikti (drones,) Knives, snipers, etc.)
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The "Go to Location" spawns are generally on one of a handful of maps, programmed with a specific location to reach. I've seen such groups run past characters to get where they're going, then turn and fire. I think type A and B according to your list are the same thing, just viewed under different circumstances.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Some do. There are three types, it seems -
- Go to a specific point. - Go to where you were when they were spawned. - Follow the player. The last one's the type the OP's trying to deal with - and I'd have to make a suggestion similar to Zortel. (And if you haven't run a Stalker before, you're going to have to deal with similar tactics vs. Rikti (drones,) Knives, snipers, etc.) |
In Effect, the Go to your location when they were spawned effect is actually "Go to a set location, which happens to be the location where the boss who calls the ambush is stationed" or something similar. Meaning there are two types. "Location" and "Chase"
Locational ambushes are -great- in a controlled circumstance. The map is a straight shot with no deviation possible? Perfect! The players will still be in the room fighting the boss when the ambush spawns at 75% of the boss's health health? Great! Any other situation requires the Chase Spawn method.
Think of a Mayhem mission with the Longbow spawns. Should they all just run straight to the bank while you're breaking stuff on the street? Or should they chase you down? By giving set locations you run the risk of the ambush being completely useless, if the player isn't -in- that location. Hence the use of Aggro to force the NPC ambushers to path to the player's location, even through doors into side-missions.
I'm not saying it isn't frustrating or annoying at best. But it's just the way the engine is coded, currently.
Can't wait 'til Seebs runs into the LT Ghouls and their "Marked for Death" power. >.> That will be hilarious.
-Rachel-
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i gotta ask since no one else has yet... how many times are you going to post about this? this is like the third thread where you whine about this issue. and the mission does say defend TPN, which means actually fight off the npc's. not sit there and let them kill/destroy TPN.
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Originally Posted by seebs
So, I got a mission, to defend TPN from hordes of destroyers. These hordes are large groups of creatures (I have no AoE powers available in my primary yet), and they completely ignore stealth and just go right to me no matter what.
How is this fun? Answer: It's not. Please don't build missions which completely invalidate some archetypes. Give us alternatives. Let us move away from the ambush location and stalk. In short, let us play the game the way you designed the characters, rather than forcing stalkers into being really fragile scrappers. |
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They never successfully used it on me. Turns out they have to get at least one tick in where they're aware of me but not dead in order to do that. |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Can't wait 'til Seebs runs into the LT Ghouls and their "Marked for Death" power. >.> That will be hilarious.
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@Sharker_Quint: I posted once here in the suggestions forum, because I had a specific suggestion to make. I also posted in the Stalker forum in the thread about Stalkers in Praetoria, because people were asking for examples of missions or mechanics that were problematic for Stalkers. I'm sorry you consider it "whining" for people to point out a game mechanic which completely invalidates the devs' described vision of how a class should play, but I'll help you out by plonking you so you never have to worry about me reading your meta-QQ again. Thanks.
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Between you and steampunkette, I think I understand the issue there. Ambushes that can be targeted when they know where the player will be don't have to break hide to work, currently other ambushes do. I guess I would view that as a game engine limitation that would be pretty useful to fix -- well, useful for stalkers, anyway. Alternatively, give some way for stalkers to drop aggro.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Some do. There are three types, it seems -
- Go to a specific point. - Go to where you were when they were spawned. - Follow the player. The last one's the type the OP's trying to deal with - and I'd have to make a suggestion similar to Zortel. (And if you haven't run a Stalker before, you're going to have to deal with similar tactics vs. Rikti (drones,) Knives, snipers, etc.) |
Hmm. There's a thought. What if time spent actually Hidden gradually dropped aggro until things lost interest in you? In a lot of cases, I can happily arrange to avoid things for a while, at which point the initial-spawn-aggro would be gone and I could go back to backstabbery.
i think you are thinking way to much into what a stalker is. think of them as an assassin. if an assassin is seen, no matter how much he/she hides, people will still be after him/her. and when you have a mission where you have to defend something, it doesn't mean that you will be able to stand there and wait for agro to go down. you have to fight your way out.
besides, if they did that for stalkers, how many people do you think would be here on the forums whining about that because they can't do the same thing with the other at's?
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It's called Placate. |
Originally Posted by seebs
Between you and steampunkette, I think I understand the issue there. Ambushes that can be targeted when they know where the player will be don't have to break hide to work, currently other ambushes do. I guess I would view that as a game engine limitation that would be pretty useful to fix -- well, useful for stalkers, anyway. Alternatively, give some way for stalkers to drop aggro.
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Roll /nin and you have an AOE placate, too! Honestly, though, I generally don't mind "homing ambushes." They let me draw them to nice bits of scenery to hide behind where I can get the first strike in.
Placate isn't much good against 3+ creatures. And while I am /nin, I think my AoE pseudo-placate is a ways off yet.
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AS (or heaviest-hit) one, placate a second that's a bigger threat, work through the others. Use it to break up the spawn/ambush.
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Originally Posted by seebs
Placate isn't much good against 3+ creatures.
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Yes, for a regular pull. If they're all weakened minions, but they come quickly and in groups, placate is only suppressing a tiny amount of the incoming damage -- even though each individual attacker is wussy.
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Pop a purple or two as the ambush spawns, then go about your normal "Build Up, AS, placate, Etc" routine while the whole enemy spawn whiffs in your general direction.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Yes, for a regular pull. If they're all weakened minions, but they come quickly and in groups, placate is only suppressing a tiny amount of the incoming damage -- even though each individual attacker is wussy.
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-Rachel-
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Fix't that for ya Bill |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
It's called Placate.
Roll /nin and you have an AOE placate, too - although it's actaully only as much use as a chocolate kettle which you can't eat, due to rather bad baseline accuracy and a bad habit for missing one of the mob, who then attacks and breaks Hide, redering it pointless. |
Seriously, Smoke Flash is pretty shocking in Ninjitsu. Blinding Power is much, much more useful. Along with copious ammounts of claws. What stealth cant solve, clawing can
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If you take away Hide from a Stalker, you're not left with an invalidated character. The failure mode of Stalker is Scrapper. Like a ninja who has been discovered, your only recourse is to flip out and kill everyone.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Make Assassin's Strike a freebie inherent power;
Return the AoEs back to all Stalker sets where they are in the Scrapper equivalents.
Stalkers were given their constant chance to crit because they need to Scrap when they can't hit and run. They need AoEs for the same reason. This game's content isn't designed for a ST specialist AT.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Except it's a really weak scrapper. With no AoE in most sets (and although there is one in Kin/, it's many levels outside Praetoria). And sub-par defense sets. And a lot less health. Compared to a scrapper of the same level, I have:|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
If you take away Hide from a Stalker, you're not left with an invalidated character. The failure mode of Stalker is Scrapper.
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* One less primary attack (because I took AS, and I can't use it to scrap)
* One less defense (because I got Hide instead of one of the "real" defensive powers)
* A single-target defense replacing one of my attacks, so I really have two fewer attacks, but at least I get a defense which is marginal at best against a group of more than about two enemies.
* Massively reduced chance to crit when not hidden.
Note that this is disproportionately noticeable at lower levels. Missing one out of eight defenses is a lot less significant than missing one out of four. Similarly, when I have a lot more recharge to go around, my attack chain will be less full of waiting around. But at 14-15 or so, if I actually took my primary abilities (AS, placate), I'm pretty thoroughly gimped.
Basically, I have a total of 10 power picks at 16. Of those, at least two are invalidated if I can't use hide and I'm dealing with multiple hostiles; I'm getting very little from Hide and nothing from AS. On a large group of individually weak creatures, placate is pretty much totally wasted. My fitness pool powers are only marginally relevant at this point -- yes, they'll be great to have had later when I make 20 and get stamina, but right now hurdle and health are having only miniscule effects. So of my 10 powers, 5 are effectively irrelevant, leaving me with two attacks plus brawl and my origin power, and a couple of defenses.
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| Like a ninja who has been discovered, your only recourse is to flip out and kill everyone. |
I may be able to pull that fight off with a whole tray full of candy, mind.
I can't really think of many other ways to challenge a typical stalker so I likes it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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ambushes ignoring the Raison d'être of the stalker AT (stealth) is my one remaining beef with the set.|
Originally Posted by seebs
So, I got a mission, to defend TPN from hordes of destroyers. These hordes are large groups of creatures (I have no AoE powers available in my primary yet), and they completely ignore stealth and just go right to me no matter what.
How is this fun? Answer: It's not. the characters, rather than forcing stalkers into being really fragile scrappers. |
the preponderance of ambushes in GR makes me glad I have no intention of rolling up a new stalker there.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
So, I got a mission, to defend TPN from hordes of destroyers. These hordes are large groups of creatures (I have no AoE powers available in my primary yet), and they completely ignore stealth and just go right to me no matter what.
How is this fun? Answer: It's not.
Please don't build missions which completely invalidate some archetypes. Give us alternatives. Let us move away from the ambush location and stalk. In short, let us play the game the way you designed the characters, rather than forcing stalkers into being really fragile scrappers.