400000 Prestige, what can I do?

I happen to agree with you but, as you can read, "I took more than a couple on the chin" from those who felt either (1) Suck it up, or (2) Play the market to make up for it or (3) Other things should be fixed way before this.

Rather than let this morph more away from OP's point or get more ugly I backed off... but it's nice to know some people still agree with me.

*sigh* Thread necro or not, an incorrect argument is still incorrect on your part. You've declared that things need to be easier so small or solo SGs can have all the shinies as quickly as the large SG can get them. I still want to know however, what exactly is it that a small three-character SG (as an example) has done to earn the same rewards as a 50-character SG.

Even if both groups have been around since the creation of SGs, if the 50 character SG as a whole has done more mishes, TFs, etc to earn Prestige than the 3-character SG has, then the 3-character SG does not have the right to complain that they should have been awarded the same tangible rewards for their accomplishments.

If things were set up so that no group was able to cross that divide you're complaining about, then you'd have a valid point that something was broken. The problem however is that some groups can earn the means to bridge that gap faster than you can, and you and a few others apparently don't like that.

Go run some mishes (or play the market, if you prefer) and earn the Prestige to get the stuff you want, and the problem goes away. These are not the dark ages of base building when base rent was impossible to pay for any group at all. Costs came down by a lot in issue 13. The gap is far from insurmountable for small groups.

So yes, I'll continue to disagree with you, and I say this as the base designer for a group of at most 8 players who somehow manage to earn enough Prestige to keep six bases active and expanding, which is apparently impossible according to what you've said here.

Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds))

I never said any such thing. Neither has anyone else on the side of logic in this thread. The only people throwing that particular straw-man around are those that are trying to steer the conversation away from what was said at the outset, that there is a gap in the system that exists no where else in that same system. That incongruity is the issue. Not how easy it is for one person or 50 people to surpass it or whether 50 people should have more shinies than a single person.

I completely get, and agree, that a large sg should have, by the very nature of pooled resources and energy, more *stuffs*.

But that is simply not the point. Go back and read the thread slowly if it helps. Pay particular attention to what I and others on the side of logic actually say in our posts, and dont just make up crap to put in our mouths.

I'll wait.



Oh, yer back? So soon?

Hmmm, okay let's move on.

Didn't say that. Don't think they should. Not germane to this topic. Seriously did you even read before you hit reply?

Nobody in this thread, nor any other thread I can find on the base building forums, has ever tried to argue that a 3 person SG should get the same tangible rewards as those of 50 person SG, for the same given amount of time. Effort=reward, such is life. With the pooled resources for a larger SG , it is entirely logical and accepted, quite unanimously I would hazard, that they would have access to more stuff, and at an accelerated rate when compared to a smaller sg.

But again, I'm forced to wonder what thread you are reading? None of this has been mentioned or brought up by anyone but yourself. None of it is germane to the topic at hand. You're either being purposely obtuse, we have a genuine reading comprehension problem, or you live in a fantasy world that none of the rest of us can see.

So tell me, do they have unicorns and candy rainbows in your world?

Ahhh, a different tactic. At least it partially applies to the topic at hand, but no, I refuse to be painted as some spoiled kid that is stamping his feet and wanting his toy NOW! That is simply not what is being said here. We've established that in this reality, everyone knows that larger groups=faster rewards. We completely get that.

Do you get that we got it?

Nobody ever said that the gap we are discussing was insurmountable by anyone. Nor have we said that the gap, in and of itself was a huge issue. The point, that you are so stubbornly and purposely refusing to comprehend, is that gap is out of sync with every other logically functional step (save one) in base building. It is this incongruity, this *sore thumb-edness* that makes it stand out. It coming so early in the process makes it further frustrating. It is especially 'noticeable' for smaller SG's, but it is an issue across the board for any SG.

Let me illustrate, if I may. Let's say there is a 100 mile stretch of highway being built. The intent is to be able to go 100 miles per hour on this highway, so they build it as flat and straight as possible. Due to poor design and engineering, about 1 mile in, they had to leave out a 20 foot section.

The folks with big fancy fast cars can get up to speed fast and jump that section with ease, possibly never even noticing there was an issue.

People with slower cars, will certainly notice that missing section. They will complain, as they rightly should. Who ever heard of a highway with 20 feet missing out of it??!?!

No where in the complaint they file would be any suggestion that they should be able to clear that missing section as easily as the people with fast cars, nor that we should be able to be as fast as those more expensive cars, or that we should reach the end of the 100 mile highway in the same amount of time as those with faster cars.

Its that missing section, that gap, that poor design. That flaw or incongruity in that overall system that is the issue that everyone is pointing at. Seriously, bully for you that you have a fast car and never even noticed a problem. But to suggest that the only fix for a poor design is for everyone to go out and buy super expensive fast cars is ludicrous.

LMAO!~

I'm not going to lay out my base building, market playing, or mish running resume for you here, mate. Thanks for the history lesson on what base building used to be. *shivers* dark ages indeed.

Of course you will! I would hazard a guess that no matter what is said here you would disagree with, even if you have to purposely misunderstand what is being said so you can manufacture an argument!

LMAO!~

Again, I'm not going to lay out my resume about which groups I run, how many players are in them, or how many bases I have. Its simply not germane to anything except your straw-man.

Have a blessed day!

The quote above is from the post I quoted previously. You can't argue that it's a more of a problem for the small or solo SGs, then comment about the wait time to earn Prestige, and then follow it up by saying that it's not about those things.

The "resume" was provided for one reason only -- to show that I actually have a stake in this as one of the small SGs others routinely claim to have an issue. You're the one who brought the small/solo topic back into the conversation (intentional or not), so please don't complain when it's used against you.

It's just funny seeing people who campaign for these changes find it invalid when someone who is in the position they're supposedly saying it benefits point out that it's not needed. Small SGs by definition have fewer resources to draw from, and that makes sense, and you've admitted that much, which I applaud.

You want me to say there's a gap? Yep. There is. There's always a gap of some kind between any levels of acquisition of equipment for this game. You're going from the barest essentials to a level of basic functionality that's expected for groups by crossing that gap. It's more noticeable for the small groups, as you pointed out in the post I quoted.

Is it a problem? Not remotely as broken a situation as many in these forums still like to claim, for a group of any size.

That's my view on the matter, and I've already provided information in this thread on what my small group does that makes us view it this way.

Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds))

Just to be clear, I'll repost what I actually said

Originally Posted by Bonker
" Its an incongruity within the system, and it is off-putting for small or solo sg's. To go from having an upgrade of some sort every few days or once a week for months, to having to wait for a month or two months or longer for the next one does not make sense *within the context of the system itself*. "

The discussion is decidedly NOT about small vs. large, no matter how hard you lobby for your willfull misunderstanding of the topic. It is about a problem *within the context of the system itself* which is what I wrote initially and you quoted.

Twice.

You then consistently ignore it, run off, talk around it and manufacture some other topic so we can continue to trade words.

I'm fine with that. I'll trade words with you until I'm bored and then I'll move on. You'll forgive me if I continue to point out that's all you're doing, though. I get that you are willfully misunderstanding the topic at hand, that you are, by in large, doggedly avoiding it. What you're getting out of it, I don't completely understand, but I guess I don't really have to.

<snip the blah blah blah small vs large blah blah blah>

Now we're making a lil bit of headway. If you'll take the time to further educate yourself and truly get a grasp on what we are discussing, you will see that this *gap* occurs only once (well twice, actually, but we can talk abut that later) in the *entire system*. It is an incongruity. It is an issue when compared to nothing else but the rest of the system itself. It is very much that 20 feet of missing highway early on in the 100 mile stretch. Why anyone would argue that its *okay* to have 20 feet of missing highway is beyond me, but here you are.

And we are back to you willfully misunderstanding the situation. We were making such great strides, too! The point is that there is NOT a gap of any kind anywhere ELSE in this system. This is the one. This is out of synch with everything else in the system. It is an unneccessary encumbrance to any group for incremental upgrading of a base. It is exaggerrated and more noticeable for a very small group, but the size of the group is not at issue. At issue is that 20 feet of missing highway where everyone knows that any properly built highway should have no gap at all. Can we at least agree that a highway should not have 20 feet of missing space?

And here you are saying that the 20 feet of missing highway is a problem, but it ain't that BIG a problem. At least we're still making headway, I guess. No one has ever suggested that this gap is game breaking by any stretch, nor have I, personally, resorted to hyperbolic or inflammatory statements to back up my simple argument that "this gap needn't exist!"

That is all I'm saying; it is all anyone is saying. It doesn't need to be there. It's ridiculous that IS there, and astronomically comical that anyone would be here arguing that it is *okay* or *fine*, or *working as intended*.

Yet, here you are.

This.

The devs added the power/combo unit and oversite center to help out smaller supergroups and to smooth out the progression a little bit. They also have changed the rent costs at least 2x in the past.

I'm betting, Fulmens, that bases are a smaller portion of the game content and thus receive less attention with the things that benefit the regular player base more and the fact that bases are "old" content. They don't draw in new players as much or entice back players who have quit, unlike Incarnates and Market Merges. They just don't warrent as much dev/time/attention as we'd like.

I do believe that bases could be made far more enjoyable and functional with some additions and a little developer time, perhaps even putting an intern/new employee to work cleaning up some of the base items and adding more base items by pulling pre made items off of maps and touching them up, then moving on to adding a few more items.

We can only hope that the developers can spend some programmer time to give us a true xyz movement tool instead of the workarounds that we must do to stack items in order to change z-axis heights.

Now I know the OP hates to craft/market but if you can save up 2 alignment merits (4 days of play doing tip missions), you could spend that on one of the recipes like a miracles unique or something that sell for 200 mil or so on the market. Sell that recipe and then turn your 200mil into 400k prestige. That would push you over the hump from tiny-not-quite-functional supergroup base into small-just-making-it functional supergroup base.

And yet there are things the developers could do to smooth out the progression that would cost very very little developer time, such as the addition of attachments to the P&C unit. That's a database change to the P&C unit and utilizes items already in the base editor. It's not a perfect solution to progression but it would help out a bit.

Its absolutely about as perfect and easy as it comes. Simply by allowing attachments, or simply upping the output of the combo unit slightly this issue would be eliminated altogether.

I discussed this in the first version of my base building guide, writtten soon after CoV came out. What's that 5 years ago? 4.5?

As you mention above, we are competing for developer time with hotter, slicker, bigger ticket items, and it surely feels they have abandoned bases altogether, which is a real shame. That don't mean I won't continue my lobbying for fixes and improvements just like I've done for the last 4.5-5 years.

The principle is solid. Four hours of relatively normal gameplay by one character gets you enough inf to hop this particular, umm, stretch of nonpavement. If that's still the metaphor of choice. Certainly faster for a solo SG than playing through 24 task forces or the equivalent amount of conventional play.

You may be able to do even better. At the moment, a level 35 crafted Kinetic Combat Damage/Endurance or Damage/Recharge is around 150 million, and those are one AM each. As always, check the market before turning your AM into a recipe into a crafted item. Also check to see if I'm matching prestige, and if 23x is matching my prestige match. 150 million inf -> 300K prestige. Pretty close to the amount needed... not counting whatever prestige you get from doing the 11 missions.

Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson

Personally I agree too if people didn't get that from my posts. I'd rather not have to try and game the system in various ways to be able to have a smooth progression to base building. That being said, it was a suggestion as to how to deal with that particular hurdle until bases are looked at.

We can only hope that a small sliver of dev time is given to bases to help the base issues out sometime in the near future. As it stands it has been years since bases have received any attention.