A new planetary system found
By
BafflingBeerMan,
Posted on: 2010-08-24 08:56 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
So, which do we nuke first?
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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127 light years away = 746,585,422,394,318.2 Miles away.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
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Never gonna get there until Warp theory is realised, and thats never gonna happen until Mankind makes an astonishing breakthrough in a capable new powersource, and we are unfortunately far more likely (given our track record) to blow ourselves up through new said technology through war.
I used to love to speculate about stuff like this, but the more you research it the more you find that we are still a pretty low-tech and basic species, still dependant on dead plant and animal remains for the majority of our power sources.
I'd say concentrate on major outposts on the Moon and Mars to avoid the 'all your eggs in one basket' doomsday scenario - and then lets see where technology is in a thousand years or so.
One things for certain. As long as we let our differences divide us here on our own home planet, we haven't a hope in hell of making the steps we should be doing as a species.
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The European Space Agency.
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Originally Posted by Starflier
So, which do we nuke first?
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Originally Posted by Mothers_Love
127 light years away = 746,585,422,394,318.2 Miles away.
Never gonna get there until Warp theory is realised, and thats never gonna happen until Mankind makes an astonishing breakthrough in a capable new powersource, and we are unfortunately far more likely (given our track record) to blow ourselves up through new said technology through war. I used to love to speculate about stuff like this, but the more you research it the more you find that we are still a pretty low-tech and basic species, still dependant on dead plant and animal remains for the majority of our power sources. I'd say concentrate on major outposts on the Moon and Mars to avoid the 'all your eggs in one basket' doomsday scenario - and then lets see where technology is in a thousand years or so. One things for certain. As long as we let our differences divide us here on our own home planet, we haven't a hope in hell of making the steps we should be doing as a species. |
I'm hoping for a Technological singularity to occur first. And I hope it expresses it self in either advanced AI that takes our place, or that we transfer our consciousness into explorer ships because to Quote Brother Cavil from Battle Star Galactica:
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Originally Posted by Brother Cavil
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I'm trapped in this absurd body! And why? Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way!
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Kurzweil is a hack.
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...but some of his ideas are fun to think about. :P
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Originally Posted by MasterJediJared
Kurzweil is a hack.
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I just wanna know where the tall blue elf-like kitty-kat people live so we can go and mess up their world like the good 19th century imperialists we obviously still like to pretend we are. 
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Even with current propulsion technology we could probably get to this system in a few thousand years.|
Originally Posted by Mothers_Love
127 light years away = 746,585,422,394,318.2 Miles away.
Never gonna get there until Warp theory is realised, and thats never gonna happen until Mankind makes an astonishing breakthrough in a capable new powersource, and we are unfortunately far more likely (given our track record) to blow ourselves up through new said technology through war. I used to love to speculate about stuff like this, but the more you research it the more you find that we are still a pretty low-tech and basic species, still dependant on dead plant and animal remains for the majority of our power sources. |
Sure that's far easier said than done, but not absolutely impossible. *shrugs*
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I'd say concentrate on major outposts on the Moon and Mars to avoid the 'all your eggs in one basket' doomsday scenario - and then lets see where technology is in a thousand years or so. One things for certain. As long as we let our differences divide us here on our own home planet, we haven't a hope in hell of making the steps we should be doing as a species. |
It's hard to motivate people to work hard for no pay off - we need an actual cool place to try to get to as an ultimate goal. You might consider the Moon or Mars a worthy enough goal at first, but we already know both of those places are relatively barren and inhospitable. A second Earth would make us actually want to get to the Moon and Mars first as a stepping stone to the stars.
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And all the wonderful space microbes we'd get infected by. Like War of the Worlds, an Earth like planet that's filled with life would be toxic to us. One breath and their common cold would kill us.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
A second Earth would make us actually want to get to the Moon and Mars first as a stepping stone to the stars.
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After the millions of years of evolution that allow us to be immunized to Earth's smallest life forms, can you imagine how long it would take us to find "cures" for all the stuff floating in an alien's world? It might be better to just terraform.
After all, if we devise faster than light space drive or if we have the patience to travel that far in colony ships then we should also achieve the technology or patients to create habitable worlds in our image. Like the genesis device. That way we don't die of alien acne or something.
Then again with the same argument, if we had the tech or the patience to get us there, then perhaps the argument holds that we would have the tech or patience to create a cure for everything.
hmm
Heck, I'll stick to my first idea. Give me an immortal robot body so I don't have to deal with it.
Beep, boop, beep.
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You know the Immortal Robot Body solution would not only solve the "alien biology killing us" problem but also the "taking thousands of years to get anywhere" problem as well.|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
Heck, I'll stick to my first idea. Give me an immortal robot body so I don't have to deal with it.
Beep, boop, beep. |
Gene Roddenberry assumed we'd be humans flying around the galaxy. Turns out we'll more likely have to become something like the Borg (or better yet Cylons) before we leave our solar system.
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Our chemical propulsion technology would not work because we would run out of fuel; a): if launched from Earth, somewhere around Mars - or b): If constructed in orbit and fuelled there, somewhere before we left our local system.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Even with current propulsion technology we could probably get to this system in a few thousand years.
Sure that's far easier said than done, but not absolutely impossible. *shrugs* |
The only propulsion tech that we have experimented with is ion propulsion and solar sails pushing off of starlight or a base-laser beam. The former being very slow at building up speed, and the latter (as far as i'm concerned) in both forms is totally unsuitable for independant deep space travel. Space is full of debris and other hazards travelling at ridiculous speeds. A rocky grain of space dust can punch holes in solar sails and sheet metal when its travelling at tens of thousands of mph.
If we did work out some kind of nuclear fusion or ion-drive, then we would still have to contend with the fact that this would be a generational ship that would have the entire onboard population to go through many generations of decendants before it reached its destination.
Problem 1: motivation and training en route with a loss of incentive re: the target destination.
Problem 2: Gravity. Unless a decent gravity can be generated onboard, the humans would not have the strength to disembark anywhere with gravity because their bones would shatter like the finest most fragile glass. Even after 10 months in orbit current astronauts/cosmonauts lose 40% of their bone density which is why they are practically carried away by ambulance on return.
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But consider this: even though as a species we're currently distracted and unmotivated, if science was able to give us near-certain knowledge of a real Earth-like planet out there that'd be the kind of thing we'd need to actually get our collective butts in gear and actually try to go there. It's hard to motivate people to work hard for no pay off - we need an actual cool place to try to get to as an ultimate goal. You might consider the Moon or Mars a worthy enough goal at first, but we already know both of those places are relatively barren and inhospitable. A second Earth would make us actually want to get to the Moon and Mars first as a stepping stone to the stars.
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1): The exponential expansion in World population and the starvation therein.
2): The total depletion of mineral resources.
3): When a large asteroid hitting shows us that we cannot afford to stay exclusively on our homeworld.
4): The expansion of our own star to Red Giant status in 5 billion years which consumes our solar system. If we haven't got our ship together by then, then i absolutely despair and reckon we deserve to go extinct.
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1) I do not believe that colonization would solve the population problem. I don't think we would be able to send enough people off world to decrease the load. Kim Stanely Robbinson points out that fallacy pretty well in the Red / Green / Blue Mars books.|
Originally Posted by Mothers_Love
Four things will force us to take expansion of our species more seriously.
1): The exponential expansion in World population and the starvation therein. 2): The total depletion of mineral resources. 3): When a large asteroid hitting shows us that we cannot afford to stay exclusively on our homeworld. 4): The expansion of our own star to Red Giant status in 5 billion years which consumes our solar system. If we haven't got our ship together by then, then i absolutely despair and reckon we deserve to go extinct. |
2) If we deplete our mineral resources, how will we have the mineral resources necessary to build huge interplanetary colony ships with FTL Drives?
3) Hopefully we will have time between finding the killer asteroid and building the colony ships. Again, the majority of us will die, as with #1 we won't be able to evacuate the entire population.
4) Sounds about right. However, I don't think the human race will be around that long. We'll die out long before then due to natural selection or some other natural force. I for one welcome our new Bee overlords.
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I think QuietAmerican indirectly came up with the solution to handle most of these problems. The questions of meeting acceleration, gravity and biology thresholds would be mitigated if you could remove the relatively frail human body from the equation.|
Originally Posted by Mothers_Love
Our chemical propulsion technology would not work because we would run out of fuel; a): if launched from Earth, somewhere around Mars - or b): If constructed in orbit and fuelled there, somewhere before we left our local system.
The only propulsion tech that we have experimented with is ion propulsion and solar sails pushing off of starlight or a base-laser beam. The former being very slow at building up speed, and the latter (as far as i'm concerned) in both forms is totally unsuitable for independant deep space travel. Space is full of debris and other hazards travelling at ridiculous speeds. A rocky grain of space dust can punch holes in solar sails and sheet metal when its travelling at tens of thousands of mph. If we did work out some kind of nuclear fusion or ion-drive, then we would still have to contend with the fact that this would be a generational ship that would have the entire onboard population to go through many generations of decendants before it reached its destination. Problem 1: motivation and training en route with a loss of incentive re: the target destination. Problem 2: Gravity. Unless a decent gravity can be generated onboard, the humans would not have the strength to disembark anywhere with gravity because their bones would shatter like the finest most fragile glass. Even after 10 months in orbit current astronauts/cosmonauts lose 40% of their bone density which is why they are practically carried away by ambulance on return. |
I realize the idea of "humans as sentient robots" may seem a bit far-fetched right now but most experts believe we are only a few decades from the Technological Singularity. All bets are off until we see how we adapt to or survive that event. It's either going to be "humans in robot bodies" or "AI in robot bodies" going to the stars at that point.
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Four things will force us to take expansion of our species more seriously. 1): The exponential expansion in World population and the starvation therein. 2): The total depletion of mineral resources. 3): When a large asteroid hitting shows us that we cannot afford to stay exclusively on our homeworld. 4): The expansion of our own star to Red Giant status in 5 billion years which consumes our solar system. If we haven't got our ship together by then, then i absolutely despair and reckon we deserve to go extinct. |
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You know, with the current technology we have, all it would take is a mad scientist to make a robocop. I mean we are literally right there and it's more a matter of ethic that is holding us back than it is the possibility that we could figure it out in save 5 years.
There are a number of things like that... It's not ethical to experiment that fast so we don't, because if we did we might stumble onto something like the grey goo apocalypse and most of us don't want that, but it if we were to remove that little ethics thing someone who really wanted to go explore the stars today could, albeit really slowly and in isolation, and not to mention they'll likely reach their first star long after we as a civ do if we are determined to do it... but it's there in our grasps if we're psychotic enough to do so ^.^
Also the first digitized person will be a very dangerous gamble for both our civilization and the person in question. Given the ability to learn and retain faqs along with human creativity the first digitized brain needs to be someone of character simply to compensate for all possible things that could go wrong that we could control, because that person could easily take over the world ^.^
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Dr. McCoy: Compassion. That's the one thing no machine ever had. Maybe it's the one thing that keeps men ahead of them. Care to debate that, Spock? Mr. Spock: No Doctor, I simply maintain that computers are more efficient than human beings, not better. Dr. McCoy: But, tell me, which do you prefer to have around? Mr. Spock: I presume your question is meant to offer me a choice between machines and human beings. And I believe I have already answered that question. Dr. McCoy: I was just trying to make conversation, Spock. Mr. Spock: It would be most interesting to impress your memory engrams on a computer, Doctor. The resulting torrential flood of illogic would be most entertaining. Star Trek - The Ultimate Computer |
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Yeah, this is the one big one people tend to forget, I think. If you were to go to a planet where the native microorganisms considered your body tasty but weren't bothered by your immune system and natural defenses, there'd be nothing stopping you from just sort of decomposing.|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
And all the wonderful space microbes we'd get infected by. Like War of the Worlds, an Earth like planet that's filled with life would be toxic to us. One breath and their common cold would kill us.
After the millions of years of evolution that allow us to be immunized to Earth's smallest life forms, can you imagine how long it would take us to find "cures" for all the stuff floating in an alien's world? It might be better to just terraform. |
Of course, this is assuming it's carbon-based or otherwise cares about the chemicals in our body. If silicon-based life were to visit Earth, I can't imagine much would happen to it. Though I guess plants might like to grow on them.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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The irony will be, when the sleeper ships finally get to their destination, they will quite possibly be greeted by humans that departed Earth long after the sleeper ships did, due to improvements in transit technology back on the home planet.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Even with current propulsion technology we could probably get to this system in a few thousand years.
Sure that's far easier said than done, but not absolutely impossible. *shrugs* |
And the people greeting them will likely be hundreds or thousands of years more advanced in most other areas, too.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Can I be put into an Adrienne Barbeau-bot?|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
Heck, I'll stick to my first idea. Give me an immortal robot body so I don't have to deal with it.
Beep, boop, beep. |
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
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Of course they left something out of War of the Worlds... Viruses that they were carrying that they were immune to would cause just as much damage to us as any of our germs would do to them...|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
Yeah, this is the one big one people tend to forget, I think. If you were to go to a planet where the native microorganisms considered your body tasty but weren't bothered by your immune system and natural defenses, there'd be nothing stopping you from just sort of decomposing.
Of course, this is assuming it's carbon-based or otherwise cares about the chemicals in our body. If silicon-based life were to visit Earth, I can't imagine much would happen to it. Though I guess plants might like to grow on them. |
Theoretically, any germ that could attack us we could develop a vaccine the same way we do it currently and the ability to play with genes like we're beginning to do would be extremely useful. It would more or less be trial and error. Have supply of rats, send a number of them down. Any that survive breed... eventually you get a vaccine. If none survive just take a few sample from indigenous life, check out their code, play with their genetics a bit and then splice into a test case of rats and test again. If you get a near 100% success start vaccinating and splicing colonists...
It is not known how much will be lost if humans are downloaded into robotic minds. We could have the personality and memories of our human form, but we might lose compassion, innovation, curiosity, and enjoyment. Or we could die when our minds are downloaded into a robotic body and we have a duplicate of ourselves with none of the intangible quantities that humans possess. After all, you can't find Justice, Compassion, or Curiosity anywhere in the universe, but in our minds. Becoming cybernetic organisms should give us the best of both worlds.
There is also the possibility of evolving to a certain point where we can travelling to anywhere we wish just by thinking of it. If we all become robots or cyborgs, then humanity won't reach that point.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
I doubt that any technological singularity would impair our humanity. Thankfully, I don't think the Universe reads TVTropes.org.
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It does, but for a good laugh.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I doubt that any technological singularity would impair our humanity. Thankfully, I don't think the Universe reads TVTropes.org.
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The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syVr01xv3Zs
Another step is made ^.^