Tarantulas as a Villain Epic ArcheType

I'd like to see all the different Tarantula types become available as VEATS, although not necessarily the Full-sized Toxic variety. I'm sure there will be objections by the instinctive nay-sayers, such as travel powers, costume customization and other incompatibilities, but I really think it's doable.

A lot of people were initially put off by the VEATs, I being one of them, but have long since learned the error of our ways. Certainly, no one now objects to an Archetype that is so extraordinarily versatile and fun to play. I will of course expect a lot of people to complain that they do not want to be weird, freaky spider-cyborgs; That's fine, no one expects you to be.

I do like how you bring up certain points that would need to be addressed, and then you don't address them.

Yes, this could be cool.


However, how do you handle all of the pool powers, not just the travel pools? How would you handle these characters only able to get the base costume slot, when all other characters get 5-6 costume slots available to them? How would you handle even using a temp power, which all current ATs can use?

This would really be a lot of work for the Devs, since, besides the current powers that the Tarantulas already have, the Devs would need to make new animations for every other power they would get, plus the pool powers, plus and Ancillary/Patron pools they would have access to, PLUS any temp power they could possibly find.

That is a decent problem, and is not just a knee-jerk reaction.

Suggestion: If you just want "oh yay that's wonderful" and nobody to bring up the actual problems with it, use a blog. If you want to ignore the actual problems with it - because like it or not, the costume creator is a big draw for this game, for instance - don't expect to be taken seriously.

Oh, and there's not universal agreement on VEATs. I find them boring with an utter crap storyline. That's not an "error."

See my Guides and Tutorials

I'd rather see the varius flavors of Arachno-bots as a MM Primary Set, perhaps with some sort of unlock required....or not.

Tarantulas as a playable AT? I'll tell Mr. Bruce to prep that shotgun for his cranium so he won't have to worry about making a billion new animations for a non-bipedal frame

I like how you made this ENTIRE post about Memphis_Bill and his love (or lack there of) for VEATs, instead of addressing ANY of the points you ignored the first time around.

You don't have to write a "master's thesis", but you know what? How about a little effort on your part if you want support from people? And support from people is what you'll need if you want the Devs to see the idea and feel it's desired by the population. Not just you. But the population.

Sorry, I for one would much rather have something a lot more options, like a Rikti EAT.

While having different character rigs would be cool, it would also be a huge problem for the animations and powers teams, which takes up a significant chunk of anything except scenery going live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

The New Epic VEAT

Here, then, is a more complete vision with less snark.

To clarify my position: I think that having Tarantulas as a playable character would be cool. The potential for freaky, macabre atmospherics is great, to say the least, and I feel that there is a hole in the VEAT lineup without the Tarantulas, despite the ability to summon Spiderlings and Arachnobots. Arachnobots are still just robots, and don't have any character, plus the summoned ones are uncontrollable, and their cool-down timer is annoyingly long. There may be someone out there with numbers on how beneficial they are when available, but personally, I don't find them a satisfying power to have.

Objections have been raised, not without justification, that the animations necessary for bringing Tarantulas into playability would constitute an undue burden upon the artists who specialize in that area. To be certain, everyone who wants something added to the game is asking for an outlay of time and effort from the artists that others feel would be better spent doing other things, like creating mission content, or making redundant zones more unique and worthwhile. I can't answer that, other than to say that I think the time spent would be worth it. I may well be mistaken, but I think that a lot of the groundwork for playable Tarantulas has already been done.

There are many animations that are already there in game that could be recycled to the player version, such as knock-back, knock down, jump, the ranged attack animations, forearm slash attacks, the 'look at me I'm Mezzed' stumble, and the death animation, just to name the few I can think of. The rig, or 'skeleton' of the Tarantula is there already, so it's not as if the entire thing has to be invented from scratch. To be certain, there are considerable complications in having a toon that is not a humanoid biped, but this was true to a lesser extent for the Crab Spider model when it was made into a VEAT - Lots of joints there that had to be animated to convincingly react and move even when the toon wasn't specifically using them for anything.

The real potential for the Tarantula model, I think, is in the animations. All kinds of creepy spider-like behaviors could be animated into the toon to give it real character - quick, twitchy jumping-spider moves, and slow, blood-curdling stalking followed by a quick strike. If you've played GR and seen the Ghouls, you know that there is vast, untapped potential for scariness and horror that can be brought forth in animation. CoT ghosts are not scary, despite all the gruesome textures, spooky sound effects, and black-light tunnel environments. They move like haunted-house animatronics, and no one is fooled. Ghouls on the other hand, are *scary*.

Complications and downsides: How do you give them pool power, travel power, and temp power options? Unfortunately, there are just some things that a Tarantula would not be able to do, given the physical limitations of the creature's form. Lots of impractical powers would just have to be grayed out; almost anything that requires hands for instance. Same for many emotes like /e research, and /e teabag. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that there is some precedent for this on certain player forms, such as Granite - There is no jumping in Granite, no matter how much you hit the space-bar. Squid form Khelds are also limited in some of the things they can do, aren't they? One option is to just give the player model hands - Some kind of manipulative extremity that folds out or deploys when someone is getting newspaper missions or using the invention worktables. Likely this entails a great deal of complication for the animation artists and riggers, so probably not.

Some things like Super Jump would be doable, although at the expense of having to animate the progression of the arc. Super Speed would be simpler I should think. Sprinting would perhaps be better animated with a quadrupedal mode of running like a trot, pace or a gallop, doubling up pairs of legs to move in concert. Whirlwind would be insane, useless and fascinating. Just curl up the legs and have the thing spinning around the room like Gamera. Conventional flying would also be weird looking, no doubt. The ability to go clambering around on vertical surfaces and ceilings, however, would be utterly cool. Probably not something the engine is built to handle though. Spinnerets, silk-line walking, and 'Ballooning' flight would be less immersion-breaking than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

Even upon cursory examination it's evident that a Tarantula VEAT would not be like other toons - it would be unique, and have to be thought of and treated differently. The VEATs were something of an adjustment from one's ordinary villains, and a Tarantula would have to be even more so.

In the area of Costumes, it would be inconsistent with the Tarantula concept to have a single non-human model in the first slot and then four other slots that were bipedal or 'civilian', like the other VEATs. My take is that a Tarantula is a person bonded with their cybernetic systems, and not capable of independent existence outside of them. One possibility is to give the Tarantula a single model across all the slots, and make each one after the default customizable with alternative armor, colors, textures, lighting (such as the Resistance costume parts) and specularity (reflectiveness). One could start with a default Tarantula minion look and progress to the Mistress, and then finally the Queen form, although with the same alterations for gender that the Widows had as VEATS. One might also choose to be a Fire Tarantula or a Toxic Tarantula after the level 25 respec.

I admit that I have only addressed a fraction of the concerns and criticisms that my original post elicited, however I must beg off at this point.

What do you think so far?

I think that you are severely understating the complications that this would cause. I am going to point out a few specific items where this comes up.

Tarantulas? Umm no thanks. I'll keep my Fortuna and Crab Spider.