With GR basically allowing Brutes to be heroes, are scrappers obsolete?
By
bAss_ackwards,
Posted on: 2010-08-23 06:20 in Scrappers
Well, if it is as out-of-balance as you say, i would imagine we'd see some fine tuning of the numbers by the devs. Buff scrapper damage, debuff scrapper damage, increase crit chances or make fury harder to sustain.
The Scrapper-Brute-Tank relationship is very strange in this brave new world. My guess is we'll see some tweaking and "fixes" to make sure all 3 ATs fulfill a unique roll.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
If you look around I think you'll find this has been discussed. 
In case it's worth mentioning, there's an "I want my money back!" thread in the Brute forum from someone who's unhappy that Scrappers now outdamage Brutes (in some circumstances, anyway).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I agree with you actually. I think the bigger problem isn't between brutes and scrappers, its between brutes and tanks. A brute does more damage then a scrapper and can reach tank like resistances.|
Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Well, if it is as out-of-balance as you say, i would imagine we'd see some fine tuning of the numbers by the devs. Buff scrapper damage, debuff scrapper damage, increase crit chances or make fury harder to sustain.
The Scrapper-Brute-Tank relationship is very strange in this brave new world. My guess is we'll see some tweaking and "fixes" to make sure all 3 ATs fulfill a unique roll. |
But even with the slight changes, a brute still mops the floor with a scrapper. The damage just isn't there. Instead of lowering the damage of the brutes, I hope they raise the damage of the scrapper.
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I don't mean to be rude but you're wrong. Brutes did similar damage to scrappers before and now that their overall output has been lowered its suffice to say that Brutes do not mop the floor with scrappers. |
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
I agree with you actually. I think the bigger problem isn't between brutes and scrappers, its between brutes and tanks. A brute does more damage then a scrapper and can reach tank like resistances.
But even with the slight changes, a brute still mops the floor with a scrapper. The damage just isn't there. Instead of lowering the damage of the brutes, I hope they raise the damage of the scrapper. |
Yes I do agree though that Brutes can encroach on Tanker's survivability.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
People who like scrappers will play scrappers, people who like brutes will play brutes and people who like tanks will play... you guessed it... tanks.
Some people don't like chasing fury so don't enjoy brutes as much as those who do.
Scrappers aren't obsolete. If I want to play with Spines, Martial Arts, Broad Sword or Katana and I also want to be able to have some survivability without playing hide-n-seek, I'll roll a Scrapper. People will play what they want to play, regardless of how many of these speculative doom threads that pop up.
I think the i18 changes show that the devs are at least aware of the possibility that Brutes may encroach on Scrappers and Tankers, and are willing to do at least something to help put the three AT's in a state of reasonable balance. So no, I wouldn't consider Scrappers to be obsolete. I wouldn't worry much about Tankers either, and Brutes are far more likely to encroach there, since they've been doing Tankers' jobs in villain content for years now, any time there was a call for it. Archetypes far more prone to relative underperformance have survived in this game, I wouldn't book a hearse for Tankers or Scrappers yet.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
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A scrapper has access to different power sets, a different playstyle, and doesn't have to gather aggro to maximize damage.|
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
I guess I'm wondering what does a scrapper offer that a brute doesn't?
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Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
Once a brute gets rollin its damage is far higher then a scrapper even with the crit bonus.
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It's been adressed, Brutes did get castle'd so that they don't make Scrappers obsolete
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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Well, if it is as out-of-balance as you say, i would imagine we'd see some fine tuning of the numbers by the devs. Buff scrapper damage, debuff scrapper damage, increase crit chances or make fury harder to sustain.
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Those fury chases get halted when the team is recovering and the brute runs off to die =).
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Originally Posted by Diggis
People who like scrappers will play scrappers, people who like brutes will play brutes and people who like tanks will play... you guessed it... tanks.
Some people don't like chasing fury so don't enjoy brutes as much as those who do. |
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While using "castle" as an alternate to "nerf" might be what the cool kids are doing, he buffs a lot more than he nerfs.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
It's been adressed, Brutes did get castle'd so that they don't make Scrappers obsolete
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I'm sorry, this wasn't meant to be a doom thread at all. In fact I like scrappers more than brutes in many ways, but before reading much of what has been posted here I was under the false impression that brutes were far superior in damage and def. Sorry if it came off that way.
Another convert to the truth!
Question: What's better, the scrapper or the brute?
Answer: That depends: which one am I currently playing?
Be well, people of CoH.
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Scrapper-Brute-Tank.|
Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
The Scrapper-Brute-Tank relationship is very strange in this brave new world.
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Where does the stalker fit I wonder.
Oh that is right. It doesn't fit.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Maybe the Tankers should be more worried.
Even worst case, Scrapper damage will be similar/close, but now people can play something tougher and tanker like, without the wet noodle.
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Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Aren't Stalkers the equivalent to Scrappers for Villains? Or has everyone thrown Stalkers out the window?
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Scrapper-Brute-Tank.
Where does the stalker fit I wonder. Oh that is right. It doesn't fit. |
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Stalkers are blappers that trade status protection for AoE, good sustained damage, and the ability to do decent ranged damage as well.
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Originally Posted by Marsha_Mallow
Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Aren't Stalkers the equivalent to Scrappers for Villains? Or has everyone thrown Stalkers out the window?
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Scrappers will never become obsolete as long as I'm paying to play!
While I have thought up rolling 1 more brute, Scrappers will always be what I consider the best AT.
Remember, Brutes only get up to Tanker resistance levels, when Brutes are teamed with the right Corr/Def/MM/Troller. Barring of course, Electric and Fire Armors specific heavy resist type.
As for defense, all ATs have been able to get up to softcap defenses, so I'd say that's a bit of a wash.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Stalker: Melee blaster with mez protection and decent mitigation. If you don't like that, quit playing them.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Scrapper-Brute-Tank.
Where does the stalker fit I wonder. Oh that is right. It doesn't fit. |
Stalkers are balanced with the other melee ATs. They have tools to run away which keeps their squishy butts alive. They get the highest burst melee damage. They do better in PvP. They are working as intended.
So quit with your constant whining. You are rapidly becoming the Johnny Butane of the stalker world.
Be well, people of CoH.
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fix'ed |
Originally Posted by Marsha_Mallow
Yeah, I was just thinking about that. Aren't Stalkers the equivalent to Scrappers for Villains? Or has everyone thrown Stalkers out for the Widow?
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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LOL, nice.|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
fix'ed
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So when all things are equal, the scrapper has a higher base def then a brute? I didn't realize that, I thought they would at least be equal.
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Scrappers and brutes have the same resist/defense mods. Brutes come with higher HP, higher caps, less damage before fury.|
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
LOL, nice.
So when all things are equal, the scrapper has a higher base def then a brute? I didn't realize that, I thought they would at least be equal. |
*edit* it's funny that people keep talking about resist/defense caps on brutes compared to tanks. The only way brutes get near their caps alone is with their godmodes. Otherwise they need a good forcefield/cold/thermal/sonic buffer type around, which aren't all the time.
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OMG I'm seriously about to put you on ignore. Take your Stalker ******** to the stalker section. You are constantly thread crapping on threads that have NOTHING to do with Stalkers. This is a Scrapper/Brute discussion.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Scrapper-Brute-Tank.
Where does the stalker fit I wonder. Oh that is right. It doesn't fit. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Melee blaster that has little aoe burst damage (I often say spines/Ninjitsu and elec/ninjitsu are the only stalker combos worth playing) and single target burst is limited by Gimmicks (AS interrupt, 30ft leash).|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Stalker: Melee blaster with mez protection and decent mitigation. If you don't like that, quit playing them.
Stalkers are balanced with the other melee ATs. They have tools to run away which keeps their squishy butts alive. They get the highest burst melee damage. They do better in PvP. They are working as intended. So quit with your constant whining. You are rapidly becoming the Johnny Butane of the stalker world. |
Scrapper burst is nearly as good due to superior self buffing, lets not talk about DPS.
Running away is always something appreciated on Teams, you win on that point
Looking forward to Ninjitsu going to scrappers.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
I guess I'm wondering what does a scrapper offer that a brute doesn't? Once a brute gets rollin its damage is far higher then a scrapper even with the crit bonus. So I'm just wondering what place a scrapper has now. They seem obsolete.