City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

With GR basically allowing Brutes to be heroes, are scrappers obsolete?

bAss_ackwards

By bAss_ackwards,
Posted on: 2010-08-23 06:20 in Scrappers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
You can't spam either of those two, dull pain with a good build is up every 2 mins and recon is up every 20 or so seconds, if in 20 seconds you can't kill a crappy regen than you need to reconsider your tactics.
You don't PvP much, do ya.

 

Posted

if you get killed by a solo stalker on a regin scrapper im fairly sure you are doing something wrong.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Am I the only one that plays the game to have fun anymore?

Or did I miss the memo saying that it's all about how fast you can get your shinies?

The quoted statement (not meant as an attack btw, Uberguy) is one of the major problems I have with the game these days. Everyone is concerned with how much DPS they do, or how fast they can run this TF to get the most reward possible in the shortest amount of time. The game has gone from a fun pastime to an exercise in efficiency.

"Oh, I'm not going to run that Task Force because I can get more stuff for running this other one twice with 2 different characters."

It shouldn't be about getting more stuff, it should be about having fun doing it. When people start YELLING at their teammates for not being fast enough with something, the point of doing it in the first place has been completely lost.
I enjoy number crunching. Some people enjoy leveling as fast as possible. Some people enjoy speed running task forces. Some people enjoy being able to buy all the best equipment and then retire the character. I don't think anyone but gold farmers are doing this as a job. We're all here to have fun. We just have fun in different ways.

Unfortunately, when someone who's fun involves speed running a task force gets on a team with someone who's fun involves reading all the dialogue and role playing, there's GOING to be a problem. Best people can do, I think, is be clear about what BRAND of fun they enjoy if their brand of fun is anything other than the vanilla, "Eh, whatever. I just like teaming up and running around and doing missions and beating things up and chatting and..."

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Brutes replace Scrapper? Doubt it. They are pretty comparable currently in my opinion, with no clear cut winner or loser in the general case.

If you favor a fast play style and just go from fight to fight Brutes will work better for you in general. If you stop and go more, scrappers will work out better. If you team with mitigation buffers Brutes generally have the edge, if you team with damage buffers Scrappers generally have the edge. If you like one of the powersets that's not yet been proliferated either way then that will obviously edge one or the other.

But otherwise the differences between them are pretty mild. For me, the question is really unless I want to play a dedicated Taunting aggro-sponge for team play, why would I make a Tanker instead of a Brute? I've got several Tankers that I used to really love...and now every time I look at them I just wish the character were a Brute instead. But that might just be me...I tend to favor a "Scranker" style of play for my Tanks.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I enjoy number crunching. Some people enjoy leveling as fast as possible. Some people enjoy speed running task forces. Some people enjoy being able to buy all the best equipment and then retire the character. I don't think anyone but gold farmers are doing this as a job. We're all here to have fun. We just have fun in different ways.

Unfortunately, when someone who's fun involves speed running a task force gets on a team with someone who's fun involves reading all the dialogue and role playing, there's GOING to be a problem. Best people can do, I think, is be clear about what BRAND of fun they enjoy if their brand of fun is anything other than the vanilla, "Eh, whatever. I just like teaming up and running around and doing missions and beating things up and chatting and..."
Soo... the tl;dr is "Everybody's fun is subjective. Just don't cross the streams."

Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP

Remember kids, crack is whack!

Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I enjoy number crunching. Some people enjoy leveling as fast as possible. Some people enjoy speed running task forces. Some people enjoy being able to buy all the best equipment and then retire the character. I don't think anyone but gold farmers are doing this as a job. We're all here to have fun. We just have fun in different ways.

Unfortunately, when someone who's fun involves speed running a task force gets on a team with someone who's fun involves reading all the dialogue and role playing, there's GOING to be a problem. Best people can do, I think, is be clear about what BRAND of fun they enjoy if their brand of fun is anything other than the vanilla, "Eh, whatever. I just like teaming up and running around and doing missions and beating things up and chatting and..."
Oh, I get what you're saying. It just seems anymore like every single TF I go on ends up being a speed run.

I said in a global channel "I'm looking to start a Tarikoss SF, and I'm NOT speed running it" and had a full team join me. I had never run that particular TF before, so I wanted to actually read what the guy had to say. Someone complained, loudly, that I was taking too long to set the missions. Keep in mind that it takes me 2 minutes tops to read mission dialog, and that I said in the very beginning that I was not speed running it, but apparently 2 minutes was too long between missions. I was very clear on what kind of TF I was putting together in this case, and that person tried to force me into speed running it anyway. I ran the Silver mantis TF as well, and I have NO idea what was happening because everyone was rushing through everything, there was at least one mission that was completed before I even got to it.

I don't mind speed running TFs that I've done dozens of times, but if it's my first time through it, I want to read the dialog and have some idea why we're killing this particular collection of enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Even before I ever went on any speed runs, I would have wondered what was up with a team leader who took two minutes to set a new mission, be it a TF or just some pugs.

When I am the leader, I assume others have a similar mindset, and so I won't generally read the plot when leading. (At least not between missions - I might read the info popup version after the mission's set.)

One side effect of that is that I solo new content a lot. Obviously I don't get to do that on most TFs, but I don't get to see a lot of the plot for any sort of story arc if I'm not the leader, and I don't want to leave people waiting when I am leader, so I generally read up on those at places like ParagonWiki.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

So, I should allow a teammate to dictate how I play....even after I expressly informed the entire team that I was going to read the dialog before we ever started it?

Sorry....but no. If I tell a team that I'm going to be reading the dialog because I've never done the TF, and they choose to come on the TF anyway, they can deal with me spending 2 minutes reading 2 paragraphs.

It's not a matter of inconveniencing people, it's a matter of they knew exactly what they were getting into at the outset and deciding that they were going to complain about it.

It's like going to a pizza place, being informed when you walk in that they are out of onions, and then getting upset when there are no onions on your pizza.

Edit: I rarely team with anyone other than my wife or a few friends for anything other than TFs. My wife and friends know I like to read the dialog and don't try to rush me through it. Incidentally, most of my friends in-game were met on TFs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Yup. If you're the leader and you tell them clearly that you will be reading the mission dialog and they complain about you taking too long, then that's their fault for not reading when you told them otherwise. It's not the leader's fault in the slightest. If you don't like it, then you can leave and let somebody else join.

And to get on topic: No, scrappers are no more obsolete than tanks are because brutes/masterminds can get blueside. Didn't make sense? Good.

Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
It's not a matter of inconveniencing people, it's a matter of they knew exactly what they were getting into at the outset and deciding that they were going to complain about it.
You are assuming they had actually read and comprehended what you typed beyond just seeing the word Tarikoss.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

I don't disagree that you can do whatever you want when you have the star. If they guy didn't like it, that was his problem. What I'm saying though, is that I consider two minutes between missions excessive, and would not expect it even on a run declared "non-speedy".

I acknowledge your right to do as you please, but in your place, I would choose to act differently.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

No, I think that its the other way around.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
You are assuming they had actually read and comprehended what you typed beyond just seeing the word Tarikoss.
Yeah, I've made that mistake before. Formed an ITF "for the money" one 2XP weekend to get more XP, influence, and drops, advertised it that way, then had someone complain that we were going too slow by pretty much wiping every map. Which I had advertised and noted at the start of the ITF, too. Oy. We reminded them of the setup, but they quit very fast after we beat Rommy and did not say anything like goodbye.

I can understand wanting to read the dialogue, too, but... even with Praetoria and it's good amount of dialogue and info from your contact between missions, it shouldn't take two minutes to read through it. I know I can speed read a bit since I read a lot, but still... I might be confused why it was taking two minutes as well.

Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
it shouldn't take two minutes to read through it. I know I can speed read a bit since I read a lot, but still... I might be confused why it was taking two minutes as well.
Which is why I said 2 minutes TOPS. It usually takes much less than that.

Though I sometimes read too fast and miss an important word that changes the context of what I'm reading

I apologize for derailing the thread as far as I did, I really only intended my post as an aside rather than a topic change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

No worries, the OT seems to have died a page or so back.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Which is why I said 2 minutes TOPS. It usually takes much less than that.

Though I sometimes read too fast and miss an important word that changes the context of what I'm reading

I apologize for derailing the thread as far as I did, I really only intended my post as an aside rather than a topic change.
Back on topic, then. Scrappers are obsolete because they've taken up reading, which destroys scrapperlock. ClawsandEffect does it. I just started doing it in Praetoria. The end is nigh. Only Brutes can save us. (They can't read, right? )

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Though only slightly different in playstyle, I just can't get myself to play a Brute. I just enjoy seeing CRITICAL pop up over my enemies. I think it would be great if one of the Incarnate levels augmented AT Inherent abilities in some way.

Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP

Remember kids, crack is whack!

Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

Scrappers beat brutes any day. trust me the only thing a brute has on a scrapper is a little higher res and more hp and thats it

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33 View Post
I guess I'm wondering what does a scrapper offer that a brute doesn't? Once a brute gets rollin its damage is far higher then a scrapper even with the crit bonus. So I'm just wondering what place a scrapper has now. They seem obsolete.
Not really. I've been playing this game a long while and Brute is the only Villain I don't have at lvl 50. Why? Because I can't stand losing Fury and I like to chat a lot. Brute can be fun for a while but I don't like that "go go go" mentality. Probably the same reason why I have 3 lvl 50 Stalkers....

I just made a new Scrapper. Scrapper is very straight forward. No need to chase Fury and no need to hide/AS. Very good for beginners. Not sure how long I'll stick with Scrapper but we'll see. I am more curious as to why people think Scrapper > Stalker so much. I need to test my Scrapper to see if that "grass is greener" mentality is correct.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.