You are more than likely going to be hidden when you use BU anyways. Don't think that .8 seconds will hurt you too much.
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But it is kind of strange. And I frequently hit BU *after* the AS if I know it can kill the target in a single strike without BU. That way I get the bonus for longer during the scrapping portion of the fight.
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Originally Posted by Fr0stbyte
You are more than likely going to be hidden when you use BU anyways. Don't think that .8 seconds will hurt you too much.
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Actually, I didn't look at the numbers but I did feel the activation time on BU seems longer. |
Originally Posted by Fr0stbyte
You are more than likely going to be hidden when you use BU anyways. Don't think that .8 seconds will hurt you too much.
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It matters a bit to me. If my job is to AS somebody to death quicker, then BU + 4s AS is 6s job. 6s is hardly a useful tool to eliminate a target that could be killing your teammates. But of course if I start alpha, then it doesn't matter as much. Just saying... that 1.9s is a bit too long on Stalker.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I reported this very early on in beta, guess it got missed. It seems silly, but you definitely feel the lengthier cast time. I believe it shares its cast time with Power Siphon, eventhough they use different animations and function differently.
Does KM Build up Stack,if not which im assuming so, what are the diminishing returns on a double build up
Doesn't kinetic melee BU apply a damage debuff to your enemy? Maybe thats why it takes longer? Also, Im not a high enough level yet on live to have either BU or AS, but Im wondering if the BU unhides you, so you may not want to use it before AS anyway. That's gonna suck versus bosses and higher if that were true though.
-Largo
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Lol? Where on earth did you see KM BU applying a damage debuff? They're talking about the animation of it taking too long, not some imaginary debuff that takes you out of stealth...|
Originally Posted by Largo
Doesn't kinetic melee BU apply a damage debuff to your enemy? Maybe thats why it takes longer? Also, Im not a high enough level yet on live to have either BU or AS, but Im wondering if the BU unhides you, so you may not want to use it before AS anyway. That's gonna suck versus bosses and higher if that were true though.
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A hypothesis on the longer animation of this particular BU might be the fact that Concentrated Strike refreshes instantly the cooldown of it so, with this in mind, the developers might have made the animation longer in order to avoid the people spamming it between more timely attack sequences. If, however, this isn't the reason they made it, i can't really think of another.
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I think you're confused on how KM works.|
Originally Posted by Largo
Doesn't kinetic melee BU apply a damage debuff to your enemy? Maybe thats why it takes longer? Also, Im not a high enough level yet on live to have either BU or AS, but Im wondering if the BU unhides you, so you may not want to use it before AS anyway. That's gonna suck versus bosses and higher if that were true though.
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All Kinetic Melee attacks debuff damage (except Repulsing Torrent) all the time. When you activate Power Siphon, each attack will then also grant you a damage buff. Power Siphon does not turn the damage debuff on and off and it is not a debuff itself.
Either way, Power Siphon is not in Stalker Kinetic Melee. Stalkers get Build Up like all the other sets (except that using the Tier 9 has a 20% chance to instantly recharge Build Up).
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I don't think they'd really go out of their way to prevent Build Up spamming or stacking this way when just lowering the chance that it will instantly recharge would be easier. And anyway, increasing the cast time really doesn't prevent that happening.|
Originally Posted by Armath
A hypothesis on the longer animation of this particular BU might be the fact that Concentrated Strike refreshes instantly the cooldown of it so, with this in mind, the developers might have made the animation longer in order to avoid the people spamming it between more timely attack sequences. If, however, this isn't the reason they made it, i can't really think of another.
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Given that the cast time is the same as the cast time on Power Siphon, the power that Build Up replaced, I'd say it's more likely that the cast time was just forgotten about when the power was being converted in to Build Up.
Although, it's possible that leaving the cast time on Build Up the same as Power Siphon is intended in order to create some kind of balance between it and the other Kinetic Melee versions. Though it's probably a very small chance that that's the case because this would be a silly way to go about achieving that.
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Originally Posted by Largo
Also, Im not a high enough level yet on live to have either BU or AS, but Im wondering if the BU unhides you, so you may not want to use it before AS anyway.
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Build up doesn't UnHide you. That would be a really stupid thing for them to implement.
For me BU is the precursor to AS 95% of the time.I definitely 'feel' the longer cast of BU on KM compared to my other stalkers. It is not a good thing. It is not much of an increase, but it IS noticeable and I don't see any reason for it. It can be hard enough getting in position, BU and AS before team mates unleash a load of KB or the mobs aggro with an attack that does unhide you, without this.
(PvE only, PvP YMMV)
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It doesn't seem like much on paper, but on teams it's very annoying when you realize that the difference is just long enough for you to hit build up and have your target move out of AS range before the attack cues up. I had to reposition after buildup so many times last night that - given the lag on my server - if I tried to reposition of the AS I would more often than not lose too much time on the damage buff to make it worthwhile.
Even if I did get the AS off, the brute would have my target half dead by the time the AS landed. As the night progressed, I used AS after BU less and less often.
Given that Buildup for KM is otherwise identical with the same power from the other sets, I'd wager that the animation time is an oversight, because I certainly can't see what the extra animation time is balanced against.
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+1|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
It doesn't seem like much on paper, but on teams it's very annoying when you realize that the difference is just long enough for you to hit build up and have your target move out of AS range before the attack cues up.
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Soloing, it's no big deal but on a team even that small of an extra delay is apt to bite us.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
So is this being /bug'd by folk?
I'll have to /bug this too. The more you play kin stalker, the more you realize how annoying that extra activation time on BU is. I really see no justification for this.
As others mentioned, sounds like they just ported Power Siphon's cast time accidentally.
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I'll add my /bug to the collective when I sign on to Shade this afternoon.
That extra bit of a delay nearly got a favorite NPC pet flattened yesterday in the last Anti-Matter mission. ('Gave him too much time to close on the goons... Dude got to Aeon before I could AS the second drone into oblivion. ) That moves it into "annoying even when solo"-territory.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
It's been pointed out in another thread that the animation for AS is shorter by roughly the same amount that Build Up has been extended.
Now that I know to expect Build Up to be longer, I can work around it. Has anyone noticed any difference in practice on the AS? Jury's still out for me on whether the 2.65 second AS makes any significant difference.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Soloing, it's nice from a "get on with it already"-perspective, and it's good for getting the first shot in before a pet catches up... but I haven't had the chance to try it out teamed yet. I can't see anything that shortens our set-up time as a bad thing, but no clue how much or little this particular difference will make.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
It's been pointed out in another thread that the animation for AS is shorter by roughly the same amount that Build Up has been extended.
Now that I know to expect Build Up to be longer, I can work around it. Has anyone noticed any difference in practice on the AS? Jury's still out for me on whether the 2.65 second AS makes any significant difference. |
As for the BU timing, if the longer activation is intentional I guess we can just hit it en route if we need to. That'll shave a second or two of set-up time. I already have to do that with one of my DB/WPs (She runs with a fragile ag-magnet of an Adept pet, and has to kill things before they see him-) and it works reasonably well once you get the timing down. I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well with a team if it comes to that.
Honestly, if I'd been thinking about the KinMelee BU's longer activation at the time, I'd probably have tried the same thing with Kang... but I was too intent on getting to smack Aeon around.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
I'm not sure if it's working as intended but the activation time on build up for Kinetic Melee is 1.9 seconds. Nearly every other set has a 1.1 sec activation time and an even shorter time for claws and spines.
Any thoughts?
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