Woo hoo! Solo'd my first AV!

If Gaiden approves than I know its good, because Gaiden knows how to build builds.

OK, while I wouldn't have used the term "questionable" for the achievement, I'm also not happy with everyone going off on Silverado for his input, and I think this is mostly about semantics rather than any disagreement of substance.

Anyone think that it's NOT easier fighting Infernal at range? Obviously Garthalus thinks it's easier - that's what makes it an effective tactic for the fight.

And those are the words I'D have used - easier, tactics. This tactic makes the fight easier. Tactics make the fight easier.

Similarly, it's easier using temporary powers and inspirations. And even if you DO use temporary powers and inspirations, I wouldn't call your AV soloing questionable. If it's just you and the AV, then you soloed the AV. I would just say that using temporary powers and inspirations makes the fight easier. Using temporary powers and inspirations is an effective tactic.

Garthalus chose to tie one hand behind his back (no temps, no insps), but not both (no tactics). I, uh... haven't heard a lot of people bragging about their no-tactics fights, with the possible exception of the Rikti War Zone challenge, which disallows certain tactics to make it harder.

So, if you want to make Infernal extra special hard, then by all means, get right up in his face and let him pound on you with his axe. If you just want him to be normal hard, then fool him into using his ranged attacks. If you want him to be even easier, pop some inspirations. It's all good, and all I ask is that you be up front about how you did it, which Garthalus was. Then people can form their own opinions. Like I give Iggy Kamakaze extra special props for doing a Rikti War Zone challenge using only Swipe, but it doesn't mean I think badly of people that actually use more than one attack for it.

I know Silverado feels that the melee range discrepancy and poor AI is in a different category. I believe he's explained in other threads why he considers it an exploit. Basically, you've got a "bug" in the melee range, or a "bug" in the AI. The devs very likely didn't intend it to work that way. If you're taking advantage of a bug, then it follows that it's an exploit. Makes sense, but I still personally just call it tactics. MY argument is that I'm not going to try to second guess what the devs intended, and I'm not going to avoid playing tactically just because the AI is stupid. I'm not going to lower myself to the level of a dumb AI - UNLESS I'm specifically trying to make the fight harder. I don't consider refusing to play stupid to be the same thing as exploiting a dumb AI.

But I think it's a subject where people can reasonably disagree, and again, I think the disagreement is mostly semantics, because both sides agree on the basic facts of the case (5ft vs. 7ft, stupid AI). I also think that Silverado is just encouraging us to be all that we can be. Make it harder. Make it as hard as it can be, and keep trying until you beat it. I can respect that.

Just like I respect Garthalus for kicking the *** of a rather nasty AV, and for choosing a Infernal as his first.

I largely agree with everything you just said. Especially the bit about tactics. Like for instance fighting Regent Korol on my corruptor was impossible from range, but fairly trivial from melee.

However, I disagree that the 7ft vs 5ft disparity falls under tactics. The tactics in this situation are the fact that Infernal is happiest using his ranged attacks. So an active kiting method that encourages him to use his ranged attacks the most would be tactics. However, generating enough dps as a melee toon doing this would be a challenge.

But standing just out of his melee range and using your own melee attacks and only facing him at his intended strength at the times he runs out of ranged attacks and switches modes is not so much tactics as much as taking advantage of a glitch in the system.

The last time this was discussed I made mention that it was similar to when mobs that were leaning against walls wouldn't fight back. Now obviously Infernal even in a limited capacity is much more of a threat than that, but my point is the mob is behaving in a limited capacity and it isn't because of anything you are doing, but rather because of a bug in the game.

The build I put together, which you can look at in the thread he linked to if you want, was somewhat different than Garthalus' live build, but for what he wanted, his worked out the best for him and is certainly capable of soloing AVs with.

As to the 5'/7' melee issue, I like Werner's explanation. It covered pretty much both sides of the argument well and also didn't insult anyone, either intentionally or unintentionally, while doing it. Well done.

Pure Win.

Yeah, that's why I frankenslotted my Siphon Life and picked up some recharge. When I'm badly hurt, I want to spam it faster than my normal attack chain. I switch to Siphon Life -> Smite -> Laser Beam Eyes. The chain isn't great for DPS, but the Laser Beam Eyes helps (a tiny bit) to make certain Siphon Life hits, and the chain spams Siphon Life almost as fast as it comes up on my perma Hasten and slotted for recharge build.

Mind you, my build is from before Physical Perfection. I'd almost certainly take Physical Perfection instead these days. I'd just lose even more DPS when spamming Siphon Life.

Sir,

The Most Interesting Man in the World takes exception to this.

Regards,

-Rad

He was once my hero, but after watching the Old Spice Man whip off nearly 100 personalized responses to youtube/twitter/facebook/etc comments on the Old Spice commercials I have decided I have extreme Man Love for him that only one manly man can share with another.

I dare you not to share the same opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GV2UqA5ElM

edit: I'm not Jason, but I laughed my *** off to this one. The responses to Alyssa Milano were terrific as well.

That summarizes my thinking precisely.

It's finding the balance between survivability and damage output. Ultimately, there are times where my DPS goes way down when I'm kiting and hitting Siphon Life after a nasty hit, but that's just so I can get back in there and deal even more pain... Now if I could only pin Siege to the table... He's a tough cookie.