Quote:
Whoo! Congrats! The first is always the biggest rush. |
Originally Posted by Garthalus
No temps, no inspirations, no click vet powers, etc. with my level 50 DM/SR Scrapper. Tackled Infernal, even con AV...
I am sooooo stoked now to go and tackle more!  |
Quote:
Why do people keep exploiting the melee range discrepancy against AVs (particularly Infernal)? |
Originally Posted by Garthalus
Specifically, stand at the very edge of melee range with him and wail away, then when he stepped forward and drew his axe, back off and evade until he planted again and started with the ranged attacks. At that point close to the edge of melee range and repeat.
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I mean I guess it's not a big deal, but still, at least have the decency to wear your Scrapper pants like a man!
Congrats on your victory. Pay no attention to naysayers. If you beat him, you beat him. There are no rules here.
Nice work!!!
Nice one! I can imagine Infernal would be really difficult to solo. I've only solo'd one AV so far, and it was only Vandal. Infernal would definitely be harder to beat than Vandal.
To Silverado, I'd love to see you try and defeat Infernal while staying in melee range 
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Congrats!
Quote:
That was the first 5 times...|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Why do people keep exploiting the melee range discrepancy against AVs (particularly Infernal)?
I mean I guess it's not a big deal, but still, at least have the decency to wear your Scrapper pants like a man! |
He has an attack with his Battle-Axe that hits for roughly 1300 hit points of damage, or about 95% of my hit-points (counting IO bonuses and the FPRM accolade). At melee range it's a given that at SOME point he's going to hit with that, and 2-unlucky hits in a row, with anything, means faceplanting.
And it's not an exploit, IMHO. It's called tactics.
Scrappers are bold and sometimes crazy, they don't need to be stupid.
Grats!! I tried taking him down solo with my Fire/shield but didn't use the same tactics.. He hits hard when a hit does register lol.
I've started AV solo attempts recently with my Fire/Shield and took down Requiem although I used minions as AAO fodder. Ended up using a couple insps, but he dropped pretty fast.
I do agree that its a rush when you solo your first av! So much fun!1
@Radmind - Justice Server
ClintarCOH - Twitter
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Congrats! You should post up your build so we can disect it and make it stronger, faster, smarter, nanananananananananananana.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Here's the trick with forcing them to use ranged (for anyone who doesn't know). Since you're DM I assume you're using Midnight Grasp. A little while back the Dev's changed all melee attacks for players to have a 7ft range instead of 5ft. They didn't change the NPC's melee attacks. If you stand at the edge of your melee range and immobalize them, they won't be able to attack you with melee attacks and they won't be able to move closer.|
Originally Posted by Garthalus
No temps, no inspirations, no click vet powers, etc. with my level 50 DM/SR Scrapper. Tackled Infernal, even con AV...
Damn, that boy was tough. Took me 5 tries to get the hang of it. I finally figured out that if I could keep dodging in and out of melee range, he would stick to range attacks. Specifically, stand at the very edge of melee range with him and wail away, then when he stepped forward and drew his axe, back off and evade until he planted again and started with the ranged attacks. At that point close to the edge of melee range and repeat. Took a while to take him down, but I was finally able to take him out. I am sooooo stoked now to go and tackle more! |
This trick works on pretty much every AV, although there are some that don't really use melee anyway. The ones that do close to melee always hit harder with their melee attacks then with their ranged attacks, and several AVs don't have many range attacks so it reduces incoming damage by a huge amount.
This is just another reason DM excells at soloing AVs. Although you can play with the geometry and pathing some to do it reasonably consistantly without an immoblize.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Quote:
Wait... what? I just hit things until they stop hitting me. Am I doing it wrong? |
Originally Posted by Garthalus
And it's not an exploit, IMHO. It's called tactics.
Scrappers are bold and sometimes crazy, they don't need to be stupid. |
Infernal's a nasty AV to start with. Grats.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Umm, I've done it about a thousand times?
|
Originally Posted by SpikyShane
To Silverado, I'd love to see you try and defeat Infernal while staying in melee range
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Congrats!!!
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Quote:
Nobody really cares. This is Garthalus's thread, and people should be congratulating him on a job well done. If you don't have anything nice to say, why say anything?
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Umm, I've done it about a thousand times?
|
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Quote:
Oh, sorry. I thought you cared since you were the one who asked it, my bad.|
Originally Posted by SpikyShane
Nobody really cares.
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Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SpikyShane
This is Garthalus's thread, and people should be congratulating him on a job well done. If you don't have anything nice to say, why say anything?
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Have a nice day sir!
I never asked you anything. I never phrased my comment as a question.
I love how you say I'm a newbie, when I signed up on the CoH forums over a year and a half before you. It's funny how you say I'm obnoxious, when you were the one who came into a thread where the mood was good, and made a comment which you knew would recieve a bad reaction from others.
Who gives a damn about the methods used to beat an AV. It's just a game, and there are tricks and corner cutting tactics in most games.
Edit: Oh, and I'm having a great day. You have a good day as well
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Quote:
Chill out kid, it's Garthalus' thread and he doesn't need you menstruating all over it.
|
Originally Posted by SpikyShane
I never asked you anything. I never phrased my comment as a question.
I love how you say I'm a newbie, when I signed up on the CoH forums over a year and a half before you. It's funny how you say I'm obnoxious, when you were the one who came into a thread where the mood was good, and made a comment which you knew would recieve a bad reaction from others. Who gives a damn about the methods used to beat an AV. It's just a game, and there are tricks and corner cutting tactics in most games. Edit: Oh, and I'm having a great day. You have a good day as well |
Quote:
I'm sorry, what?|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Because I love seeing obnoxious newbies getting riled up over not congratulating someone else on a "feat" achieved through questionable methods.
|
I fought and beat Infernal using nothing but my build... No inspirations, etc. etc. What about that was "questionable"?
Did I find an approach that worked? Yes.
Was it an exploit? No.
I consider it tactics. He was attacking me the whole time, it wasn't like it was a free ride by any stretch...
By your logic, I should just walk up and hammer away until someone goes down? Isn't that just button mashing and leaving it to the mechanics of the build and the random number generator?
Personally, regardless of your position, I was thrilled to have found an approach that worked after trial and error and some creative positioning. Ultimately, it's about the challenge and pushing limits. I did both, as set by my own expectations, so I am satisfied and pleased. That's enough for me.
If you can do it "better" or the "right" way, power to you. Perhaps I'm not there... yet.
It's a game, relax and have fun.
Quote:
Sure.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Congrats! You should post up your build so we can disect it and make it stronger, faster, smarter, nanananananananananananana.
|
Please note that I credit Gaiden and some other folks here for their suggestions and advice on my final build. It's working well for me.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Slammer Sam: Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:42(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:42(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:42(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:42(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:42(17), Hectmb-Dam%:50(19)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:40(A), LkGmblr-Def:40(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(17), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(23)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Oblit-Dmg:40(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:40(3), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:40(5), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(7), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(15), Oblit-%Dam:40(19)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:40(A), LkGmblr-Def:40(15), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(23), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:40(25)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:47(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:47(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:47(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:47(11), Heal-I:50(11), Nictus-Acc/Heal:47(13)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx:40(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg:40(37), Numna-Heal/Rchg:40(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:40(46), Numna-Heal:40(46), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:40(48)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(A), LkGmblr-Def:40(34), GftotA-Run+:38(42)
Level 18: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def:40(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(37), GftotA-Run+:37(42)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod:40(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:40(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:40(21), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg:40(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:40(43), P'Shift-End%:40(43)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I:40(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- GSFC-ToHit:40(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:40(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:40(27), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:40(29), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:40(29), GSFC-Build%:50(31)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Def:40(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(40), GftotA-Run+:39(42)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:27(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:37(31), ImpArm-ResDam:35(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:37(40), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:37(50)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:47(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:47(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:47(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:47(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:47(34), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 35: Evasion -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:40(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:40(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:40(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(36), RedFtn-Def:40(37)
Level 38: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:40(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:40(39), RedFtn-EndRdx:40(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), RedFtn-Def:40(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:45(A), RechRdx-I:45(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), P'Shift-EndMod:40(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:40(45), P'Shift-End%:40(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:40(50), RgnTis-Regen+:21(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB:42(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 6: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 12% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 12% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 12% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 12% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 12% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 12% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 12% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 12% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 6.13% Defense(Smashing)
- 6.13% Defense(Lethal)
- 5.81% Defense(Fire)
- 5.81% Defense(Cold)
- 6.13% Defense(Energy)
- 6.13% Defense(Negative)
- 4.88% Defense(Psionic)
- 9.25% Defense(Melee)
- 9.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 8.63% Defense(AoE)
- 2.25% Max End
- 6% Enhancement(Heal)
- 41% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 55% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 15% FlySpeed
- 175.7 HP (13.1%) HitPoints
- 15% JumpHeight
- 15% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 11%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 10% (0.17 End/sec) Recovery
- 62% (3.47 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 37.5% RunSpeed
Code:
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We should both leave this thread to Garthalus because neither of us are on topic anymore, but I have one last thing to say. Silverado, you need to check your attitude, because it's foul. You may think your snide comments are funny or cool, but they're not. You may think they are funny, but you're the only one who's laughing. You can say whatever you like about me in reply to this, but I'll never read it as I'm leaving this thread for Garthalus to enjoy his moment of glory against a particularly hard AV to beat. Once again, well done Garthalus for beating Infernal. Also, sorry about Silverado's and my behaviour in your thread.
Edit: Garthalus, I'm really liking that build. Very nice work.
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Well, the posts here are intended to solicit feedback, so it seems this post did it and then some...
I suppose it shows how inexperienced I am at soloing AVs that I pointed out an approach that obviously has some prior discussion and established positions (pro and con) on it.
It's all good, and part of free speech is letting everyone say their piece. I'm fine with that.
Now... on to Nightstar.
Quote:
It was the fact that you were, apparently unknowingly, exploiting the range discrepancy between players (7ft) and critters (5ft), which means you were out of his melee attack zone, but he was still in yours. In other words, enjoying the advantages being a melee has, with none of the disadvantages.|
Originally Posted by Garthalus
I'm sorry, what?
I fought and beat Infernal using nothing but my build... No inspirations, etc. etc. What about that was "questionable"? |
Now, I didn't mean to come crap on your achievement, we're all being calm and civil (except that Shane guy). My tone in the first post was more about being playful (notice the smilies and all) and informative (informing you that what you did was 'questionable'), and being a young Scrapper with a lot of potential, it'd give you something to look forward to.
Like I said, it's not that big of a deal and I'm pretty much the only one to point it out. What matters here is that you had a rush. I will not congratulate you on this one, but I encourage you to keep fighting more AVs and get stronger.
Quote:
Unless you fight Hopkins, then it's lolzy.|
Originally Posted by Deuce_Spade
Congrats on your victory. Pay no attention to naysayers. If you beat him, you beat him. There are no rules here.
|
To the OP-gratz.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Gratz. Infernal is a handful from range or melee if you rely largely on defense because he has several attacks with higher base acc. And he hits like a mack truck.
Regarding the fact that our melee attacks outrange npc melee attacks: well it is what it is...for now. It's this way for every mob type, but it likely won't be addressed until someone shows how they can exploit it in a significant enough way to warrant attention. Assuming the devs are even aware of the disparity...Demonstrating the problem is actually fairly trivial if one was so inclined, but I personally don't care enough to try and make such a change happen.
But if anyone is interested in bringing about change I'd recommend an /elec blaster. Immobing things and then punching them in the face with the massive melee attacks in that set with none of the risk that is supposed to be attached to blapping is probably the best way to show that a problem exists.
Gl on Nightstar, she has a lot of resistance, but if you can overcome it she is fairly non-threatening.
No temps, no inspirations, no click vet powers, etc. with my level 50 DM/SR Scrapper. Tackled Infernal, even con AV...
Damn, that boy was tough. Took me 5 tries to get the hang of it. I finally figured out that if I could keep dodging in and out of melee range, he would stick to range attacks. Specifically, stand at the very edge of melee range with him and wail away, then when he stepped forward and drew his axe, back off and evade until he planted again and started with the ranged attacks. At that point close to the edge of melee range and repeat. Took a while to take him down, but I was finally able to take him out.
I am sooooo stoked now to go and tackle more!