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Originally Posted by HelgeS
Hi,
is there any recommendation what power sets a tank should have? Tried a Nature / Dualblade, but the swords where rather lacking after 20 levels. What would you recommend? |
Quick answer is "Whatever you like the look of".
Easiest thing to do is look in the Guides section of the Tanker subforum, read a few of the guides there and see what you like the sound of and what concepts you can come up with. There's no real right or wrong answer, but certain sets and combos of sets have different synergies.
What Primary Powerset did you pick. For example Willpower is very survivable and hands off, but the drawback is that it can be harder to maintain aggro and keep it off your teammates, especially if you choose a Secondary with fewer AOEs. So a Willpower/Dark tank will be pretty tough individually but may have to work harder to keep his teammates safe, compared to other combos.
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Well, "Nature" isn't a powerset, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there.....|
Originally Posted by HelgeS
Hi,
is there any recommendation what power sets a tank should have? Tried a Nature / Dualblade, but the swords where rather lacking after 20 levels. What would you recommend? |
But, if you're complaint is that your tank isn't doing enough damage....well, that's kind of the point. Tanks do less damage than other ATs to make up for the fact that there is nothing in the game more survivable if built right. It wouldn't be fair if a tank could hit 90% resistance, with over 3000 HP, and also hit as hard as a scrapper.
That said, Invulnerability/Super Strength is the "classic" tank combo. Willpower makes for smooth soloing with the capability to have a recovery power at level 12. Shield Defense can be softcapped without any IOs at all through power choices, and it will boost the damage of any secondary you pair with it due to its +dam aura.
Super Strength will do the best damage out of the tank sets because it has Rage (which is stackable, and easily made permanent), but it waits quite a while to get there.
Really, a lot of it is personal preference. I like Dark Melee, but I like having a self-heal as part of my attack chain. Electric Melee will have good AoE ability.
So, what kind of stuff do you like? AoE? Solid single target damage? Completely unkillable?
Unbeatable agro control?
The question "What powers should a tank have?" is a loaded one, and you will be likely to get 10 different answers from 10 different people. If you give a little more information we can help you a little better.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
For "Sony's My First Tank" take a WP/Something. Damage will be lacking. You are not a scrapper. I think the ultimate training wheels Tank would be a WP/Electric, but you'll have trouble holding aggro w/o Taunt, which is not a bad thing really. But you'll never worry about endurance and Rise to the Challenge is one of the best powers in the game.
Others will know more about tanks, and there is the tank forum here. I don't play them because of the responsibility to the team that is inherent in the AT choice. Also, I suck at tanking.
WP is actually pretty bad for a newbie Tanker, specifically because it has some problems holding aggro, and teams will be kind of expecting you to do that. Yes, it is easy on the blue bar, but it's not quite as easy as the other sets to actually "Tank." Once you get used to holding aggro with it, it's fine, but it'll be a steeper learning curve than the other sets because of this.
Sets I'd recommend for a newbie Tanker: Electric, Invuln, Ice, or Shields
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Strongest tank I think is granite but is susceptible to psychic attacks also slow moving unless speed boosted ,Ice good agro holding via the shields,Invulnerable also good agro holding due to shields I have taken dark melee with these as I find it gives me good damage as well.I think a lot depends on your play style I like to have a go as well as protect the team others are quite happy to be meat shields and suck up the hits while keeping all the aggro on themselves allowing the team to wipe out the mobs.Welcome to the game and if you need help you can get me on my Globals Professor Radburn or Marshal of Paragon.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
WP is actually pretty bad for a newbie Tanker, specifically because it has some problems holding aggro, and teams will be kind of expecting you to do that. Yes, it is easy on the blue bar, but it's not quite as easy as the other sets to actually "Tank." Once you get used to holding aggro with it, it's fine, but it'll be a steeper learning curve than the other sets because of this.
Sets I'd recommend for a newbie Tanker: Electric, Invuln, Ice, or Shields |
Electric is a good call. Resistance Sets are generally more predicable than Defensive ones and Electric is probably the best "middle of the road" one for a first timer (Dark can be hell on the End bar, Fire can be squishy and vulnerable to debuffs). Electric is a good compromise set.
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I'm not challenging this, just asking...|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
WP is actually pretty bad for a newbie Tanker, specifically because it has some problems holding aggro...
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If you throw some taunt into RttC, doesn't that help? I made a WP/Elec and she held aggro well, but I did "fight backward" facing the squishies and taunting the badguys off them. Though I also faceplanted often.
I didn't want to mention stone/stone, which does rock [crap, a pun], because the slow is frustrating.
And, thought late in the game, I think it's Salt Crystals? An AoE sleep, is a good aggro pig for you. Though that won't help at all when levelling, but it's good lockdown for a AoE smacko. Salt+Burn, har har har.
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Well, yes, if you put some Taunt enhancements into it, it can work better, but you can still lose aggro to high-damage ATs like Blasters and Scrappers. Not saying that it will happen, but it's much easier to lose aggro on a WP Tanker. An AoE-heavy secondary, like Electric, can mitigate that to some degree, as Gauntlet will take effect on more enemies (giving you the 13.5 second Taunt effect at level 50, versus the 1.25 second Taunt effect from RttC).|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
I'm not challenging this, just asking...
If you throw some taunt into RttC, doesn't that help? I made a WP/Elec and she held aggro well, but I did "fight backward" facing the squishies and taunting the badguys off them. Though I also faceplanted often. I didn't want to mention stone/stone, which does rock [crap, a pun], because the slow is frustrating. And, thought late in the game, I think it's Salt Crystals? An AoE sleep, is a good aggro pig for you. Though that won't help at all when levelling, but it's good lockdown for a AoE smacko. Salt+Burn, har har har. |
Stone Armor would probably be frustrating for a new player, due to both the physical slowness of the set, and the fact that it's a very weak Tanker set until you get to level 32.
Also, Salt Crystals + Burn wouldn't work out too well. The Damage would wake the enemies easily, and then they'd just run out of the Burn patch after taking maybe one more tic of damage. Stalagmites would work a little better, being a stun + damage, but that's on a decently long recharge.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I started out with the standard Inv/SS and still consider it kind of the "generic" tank, with the others branching off into more "specialty".
I definitely wouldn't recommend anything with damage aura (or just don't take it at low levels) for a new player, because the end problems early on will just suck the fun right out of it. We're fine with it, because we know better days come, but for a newbie, that'd be pretty "ouchy".
No matter what you choose, I'd go to the Wiki and read through what each and every power does once. I made some bad mistakes early on ("Dull Pain? Waste a power on some extra HP? Meh!") because the in-game descriptions sometimes don't match what the power really does (I had no idea DP was a self-heal and the description doesn't mention it).
Dec out.
Thanks, that was a lot input.
My first tank had serious problems to hold the agro and later he was even unable to kill mobs when alone.
I thought the best Tanker in term of holding agro would be someone with a fire aura or similar? But I take that those chars are no fun to play until later, right?
I tend between Willpower or Invulnerability, but I want to play with others and make sure I can hold the agro rather easily.
At least with the secondary power I made up my mind. Super Strenght seems the best choice for me now.
Invulnerability is a great aggro tank, but really doesn't come into that until you get Invincible at 18, IMHO. It can be tough for some slogging through those lower levels without getting bored soloing or having the enemies getting away from you on teams.
Dec out.
If you are unable to kill mobs when solo, then something is going wrong. Have you checked out any of the guides, and compared them to your slotting? You should be able to solo with a /DB tanker of any kind.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I suggest you take a look at a guide written by a good friend of mine, Call Me Awesome. Invulnerability Tankers for the First 20 Levels.|
Originally Posted by HelgeS
Thanks, that was a lot input.
My first tank had serious problems to hold the agro and later he was even unable to kill mobs when alone. I thought the best Tanker in term of holding agro would be someone with a fire aura or similar? But I take that those chars are no fun to play until later, right? I tend between Willpower or Invulnerability, but I want to play with others and make sure I can hold the agro rather easily. At least with the secondary power I made up my mind. Super Strenght seems the best choice for me now. |
CMA pretty strongly feels that a tank needs to do the job of grabbing aggro to protect the rest of the team. Willpower tanks have very good survivability, but are weak on the taunt built into the primary. Other characters, especially shield scrappers, can steal aggro from a Willpower tank unless you use Taunt a LOT. (I mostly use my WP/Stone tank solo -- he makes a good "scranker" i.e. Tanker who tries to play like a scrapper.) Invuln has a much stronger Taunt Aura and will hold aggo better without having to use Taunt as much.
As for secondaries, you should pick whatever seems fun. My first level 50 tank was an Invuln/Axe. My next one was a Stone/Fire. I am still working on a Stone/Stone, WP/Stone, Shield/Superstrength, and an Ice/EnergyMelee, all in the 40's. And I have several lower level tanks. Each powerset combo is a little different.
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Rise to the Challenge has a mag 3 Taunt for 1.25s. (ticking every second) Blazing Aura (which I would call the "baseline") has a mag 4 Taunt for 13.5s, and it tics every 2 seconds, which means it stacks with itself. The duration remaining of a Taunt also has an effect, so overall you're going to be getting a lot more effect out of the other Taunt auras.
I'm fairly sure that Enhancement only effects the duration of Taunt effects, so even if you could double that 1.25 second duration, it still wouldn't come close. The short version is, it tics JUST often enough to keep itself up all the time, but not enough to significantly stack. It'll pull aggro off a squishy, but not another Tanker. (or a Brute or a Scrapper with a Taunt aura) I'm sure that's by design.
In response to the OP, I love my Dual Blades, but with lethal damage it is commonly resisted. Then again, so is Super Strength. Rage is really the compensating factor for that. It can also be a bit harder to build combos with a Tanker since the Dual Blades powers unlock slower in the Secondary. Dark might be a good alternative, but as mentioned, you'll never do a lot of damage with a Tanker.
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Not really. The majority of Tanks get a single taunt aura power in their primary and these are all pretty much identical (in terms of taunt mag and duration). Arguably the damage based auras are slightly better than the debuff auras since the extra damage does increase aggro but it's not a huge difference. The two exceptions to this are Willpower which as mentioned above has a much weaker taunt aura and Dark Armor which has three different taunt auras although few (if any) dark tanks run them all at once.
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Originally Posted by HelgeS
I thought the best Tanker in term of holding agro would be someone with a fire aura or similar? But I take that those chars are no fun to play until later, right?
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Ok, just made an Invulnerability / Super Strength Tank. My 4th or 5th tank today I think
Let's see how this one plays.
Thank you very much all.
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Keep in mind that no tank is really really really good until at least 18, if not 20 or 22, or even later depending on how you're building. All tanks have to "grow into" their powersets.
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Originally Posted by HelgeS
Ok, just made an Invulnerability / Super Strength Tank. My 4th or 5th tank today I think
Let's see how this one plays. Thank you very much all. |
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Invulnerability and Shield Defense both have taunt auras with a longer Taunt duration than other sets (and Taunt duration does far more for your Threat rating than any other factor).
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Not really. The majority of Tanks get a single taunt aura power in their primary and these are all pretty much identical (in terms of taunt mag and duration). Arguably the damage based auras are slightly better than the debuff auras since the extra damage does increase aggro but it's not a huge difference.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Surprised no one mentioned xx/Shield tanking as a strong damage-dealer.
With Against All Odds running, you gain a damage bonus for every baddie huddled around you.
With enough baddies, your damage can rival that of a scrapper (well, that may be an exaggeration, but you get excellent damage numbers [for a tank]).
Couple that with Shield Charge's "superior" damage and relatively quick recharge, and if you jump into a mob, wait a beat for Against All Odds to take hold, then Shield Charge in place, you can decimate HUGE mobs in seconds. Rinse & repeat.
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Indeed they do, in my experience the only set that's better at aggro than Inv or Shield is Ice since Chilling Embrace tics every 0.5 seconds so it will grab aggro faster.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Invulnerability and Shield Defense both have taunt auras with a longer Taunt duration than other sets (and Taunt duration does far more for your Threat rating than any other factor).
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Stone or Fire with a 2 second tic rate can hold aggro, but they take longer to get aggro and Fire anyway has to roll a tohit on it's aura... most other auras are autohit.
To the OP, your Inv/SS tanker should be quite competent once it matures a bit... no tanker really shines in the low levels but Inv being heavily resistance based does decently. You will have endurance problems until you get stamina so slot your powers accordingly. Accuracy and endurance reduction in your attacks should take priority.
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Just to expand on that a little, you take accuracy because missing does zero damage and still uses endurance, and you take end reduction because you do no damage if you have no endurance to attack. It seems a little counter-intuitive at first but you'll probably actually do more damage overall by putting damage as a third priority.
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Call Me Awesome has that right: Accuracy and endurance reduction in your attacks should take priority. |
Dec out.
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If you want to hold aggro, roll an Ice Armor Tank, boy do they hold aggro. It's not really the easiest Tank for new players, and it is more fragile than other Tanks at lower levels. However, if you can stick with it, it's going to be an amazing Tank.|
Originally Posted by HelgeS
but I want to play with others and make sure I can hold the agro rather easily.
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As for secondaries...Tankers have pretty low base-damage, therefore they take forever to kill when you're soloing. If I have to decide, I would have to say Super Strength deals the most damage just because it has Rage, but there's also the Rage crash for you to get used to.
I would not recommend going with a Tanker if you want to be a damage dealer.
Edit: I also agree with the above posters on slotting with accuracy and endurance reduction as a priority for Tankers. Your damage is already pretty low, therefore your attacks are mainly for grabbing and holding aggro. You want to be able to land them in the first place in order to grab aggro. Endurance reduction is pretty self explanatory, unless you roll with a WP/ you will need at least 2 endurance reduction in everything, until you reach SO's.
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I just realized that. My level 10 tank is running out of stamina pretty fast.|
Originally Posted by SPiNE;
I also agree with the above posters on slotting with accuracy and endurance reduction as a priority for Tankers. Your damage is already pretty low, therefore your attacks are mainly for grabbing and holding aggro. You want to be able to land them in the first place in order to grab aggro. Endurance reduction is pretty self explanatory, unless you roll with a WP/ you will need at least 2 endurance reduction in everything, until you reach SO's.
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Just wondering, is there a way to repick powers later?
We have what is called a respec (respecification) where you completely recreate your character's powers from scratch (you have to keep your choices of AT, primary and secondary power, though). You can get these in several ways, detailed in the link.
EDIT: Note, the link touches on freespecs, but doesn't really mention that just about every new issue they give them out to everyone on every character. I can't remember the last time a new issue didn't come with a freespec. It's become a common assumption that there will be one with every issue, because they almost always change something that would require it/be handy for. So if you hang on until Aug. 17, there's a really really good chance you'll get one dropped on all your characters.
Dec out.
Hi,
is there any recommendation what power sets a tank should have?
Tried a Nature / Dualblade, but the swords where rather lacking after 20 levels.
What would you recommend?