you are complaining about a kin doing a decent job of applying sb? I'll give it to you because it's new at least.
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When I first read the chat log, I skimmed over the names and assumed that the OP was actually Idiot Kinetic, not Me... Now I just have to scratch my head as to why the OP would post that long, as it certainly gives the impression that he was just being whiny- or that he just died and was mad.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
you are complaining about a kin doing a decent job of applying sb? I'll give it to you because it's new at least.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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My question is what's the connection between Transfusion and SB?
And as to the OP's last comment, all I see is an excerpt of a chat log, I'm not really seeing an expressed opinion (excluding the names.)
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Problem isolated.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: if someone breaks the chain it breaks the continuity of buffing
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I have no problem skipping people in the buff order. Sure, it takes a little more concentration, but you learn quickly. First, because not everyone on a team needs Increase Density, Clear Mind, O2 Boost, or what have you. Second, because it's unrealistic to expect your teammates to remain in line of sight and 60' of you at all times. Third, and most importantly, because you have to skip yourself.
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There's the rub. I confronted him about the lack of transfusion and offered for him to skip my SB turn, and he replies that would mess up his buff cycles. He says he can't find me but yet he knows I am in melee. And for the record, if you were the only team mate without an ice shield where would YOU go to get a heal with a kinetic on the team?
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Problem isolated.
I have no problem skipping people in the buff order. Sure, it takes a little more concentration, but you learn quickly. First, because not everyone on a team needs Increase Density, Clear Mind, O2 Boost, or what have you. Second, because it's unrealistic to expect your teammates to remain in line of sight and 60' of you at all times. Third, and most importantly, because you have to skip yourself. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
That's the problem right there. The kineticist cites him running into melee as a problem, when his heal only works on targets in melee.
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Maybe he didnt know about targeting thru the player. Thats how I heal with a Kinetic, target melee toon in need, hit Transfusion, BAM 90% of the time the person I want to heal gets hit with the heal. The only hard part is trying to get the heal off before the target critter dies |
Originally Posted by Garent
That's the problem right there. The kineticist cites him running into melee as a problem, when his heal only works on targets in melee.
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Additionally, Buffs should be refreshed when they drop, but I try to do that before a fight starts or as a battle is winding down, so they will be fresh at the start of the next battle. And if someone is out of range when they come up in my buff cycle, guess what, they wait till next cycle or when the battle winds down again and I notice they are not buffed.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
The problem is that too many people think that this game is difficult enough to need the idiocy of everyone that commented in that chat log. Except for the claws scrapper. He appears to be the one with the brain.
OP, you should have kept your mouth shut and need to learn how not to die. The kin user also needs to learn how to play.
This game is not rocket surgery.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Nor is it brain science.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
This game is not rocket surgery.
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I'm of the opinion that if kin is actively speed boosting me, which is a rarity, I'll take that and not complain. If you can't keep yourself alive then quit.
I am not getting why Psylenz had to be in melee range at all.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Mmm... quick mathematics time. Assuming the 12 buffs are 6 Speed Boosts and 6 Increase Density, that's 6 seconds of cast time for Speed Boost and 12.42 seconds of cast time for Increase density. Then add in a 2.17 cast time of Fulcrum Shift, we're up to 20.6 seconds worth of casting time. Since it's moving targets, the likelihood of him being able to get each person in rapid succession seems... not too plausible. That and if he's complaining about not getting you, I assume it should technically be 14 buffs, increasing the chain to 24 seconds. However, what I don't get is if he can SB/ID the tank and scrappers, why he wouldn't be able to get you in melee. Either way, I wouldn't want a buff bot on my team and that's about what he was sounding like he was. I mean, Siphon Speed and FS would be something I'd be using as much as possible to, so he'd have no time for a heal or an attack.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: i'm layering 12 buffs on moving targets every 30 sec
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60 second duration, 2 second cast time ID, how I loathe thee.
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[Team] Idiot Kinetic: you run into melee and die in 10 sec [Team] Idiot Kinetic: and i'm supposed to find you [Team] Idiot Kinetic: can't buff around corners or out of LOS |
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| [Team] Idiot Kinetic: i'm working top to bottom |
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| [Team] Idiot Kinetic: if someone breaks the chain it breaks the continuity of buffing |
There's been many times, especially when playing a Kin, that someone starts yelling at me for SB. Guess who doesn't get it that cycle? Yeah, when it comes to someone telling me how to do my job as a support character, I can get quite defensive. I'm not telling you to kill the boss first and let the AoEs from the blasters kill the minions. I just let them do what they will because we'll all get through it eventually. It's not a farm and it's not all about XP or Inf/sec. It's about fun.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
Heals are not a necessity. They are just good when doing things in a way that requires them which is basically almost never the only way.
If as a Cold defender there was no Kin, there would be no transfusion to get in melee for. I would stay ranged to be outside of the majority of effects. If in doing so I was still getting hit then I would be looking at the difference between what aggro control there could be compared to what aggro control there is.
I don't think the Kin has much to be sorry for. Transfusion isn't autohit, they could of tried and it could of missed. Then there could be targets that die or be moved just before the Kin is able to use it. Selecting the most survivable target takes time that a Kin may not be able to afford. Transfusion is not something that is reliable and as my Kin I am not in melee for long at all so that I don't need it personally. Why a Cold would need to be in melee is still questionable. I wouldn't want a defender that needed another defender for anything just as I wouldn't want a Tanker that needed another Tanker for anything.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I never fault someone for being in "melee". If the support types on the team (especially controllers) are doing their job, the critters should be harmless at any distance.
Besides, being within 20' (Transfusion's radius) of an enemy critter isn't really "melee" if you're a cold defender, the critter is movement floored, and takes a full ten seconds to move 20'. More likely the the cold defender was faceplanting not because of his position but because he was the only one without ice shields. Not having SB would have helped him stay in that sweet spot just within Transfusion's radius.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
The problem is that too many people think that this game is difficult enough to need the idiocy of everyone that commented in that chat log. Except for the claws scrapper. He appears to be the one with the brain.
OP, you should have kept your mouth shut and need to learn how not to die. The kin user also needs to learn how to play. This game is not rocket surgery. |
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I think Psylenz lost it here anyway along with needing another defender in the team. If there was no other defender in the team then what then? Psylenz would still have to support the team and survive. I think there is some misdirection as to who is as fault. A number of people could be at fault.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
[Team] Me: youre a pompous ***
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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This is why my only character without a self heal power is my permadom. You can't rely on anyone to heal you, including empaths without any secondary powers. Expecting a level of performance out of the people around you is just setting yourself up for irritation.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
The problem is that too many people think that this game is difficult enough to need the idiocy of everyone that commented in that chat log. Except for the claws scrapper. He appears to be the one with the brain.
OP, you should have kept your mouth shut and need to learn how not to die. The kin user also needs to learn how to play. This game is not rocket surgery. |
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Fault? like the gravity/empathy controller that recast/tp'd Singularity in the middle of the melee group around the tank, exploding the AoE of doom? That was the one I referred to as tool empath. Fault? like the tank that would try to grab multiple spawns on a 7 man team and taunt them to himself in numbers beyond the aggro cap?|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
I think Psylenz lost it here anyway along with needing another defender in the team. If there was no other defender in the team then what then? Psylenz would still have to support the team and survive. I think there is some misdirection as to who is as fault. A number of people could be at fault.
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| Besides, being within 20' (Transfusion's radius) of an enemy critter isn't really "melee" if you're a cold defender, the critter is movement floored, and takes a full ten seconds to move 20'. More likely the the cold defender was faceplanting not because of his position but because he was the only one without ice shields. Not having SB would have helped him stay in that sweet spot just within Transfusion's radius. |
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| [Team] Idiot Kinetic: if someone breaks the chain it breaks the continuity of buffing. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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Now a messy team ontop of that Kin does paint a clearer picture, in which case I wouldn't be all on the Kins back as he/she probably has it bad too. Transfusion is nice but unreliable, as a Kin, which is probably my worst I do see people create problems that are hard to fix. You can't transfuse on people all over the place and sometimes you know that you have a priority list as if one certain person goes down then the rest might. Can't play other peoples toons nor make their builds for them.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
Fault? like the gravity/empathy controller that recast/tp'd Singularity in the middle of the melee group around the tank, exploding the AoE of doom? That was the one I referred to as tool empath. Fault? like the tank that would try to grab multiple spawns on a 7 man team and taunt them to himself in numbers beyond the aggro cap?
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Well, I was expecting this to show up.
As pug runs go, it was short and ended on a sour note, but I can only offer my point of view. If I'm in the wrong, so be it.
I was leading and tanking Dark/Ice, so I built the team. Psylenz was the first to join, cold/sonic defender. Great. I have one myself and know it's a great for teams.
Second was the kin/ele defender with the search message "If you're looking for a healer look elsewhere". Ok, if you don't want to spam transfusion as a filler that's your choice, I didn't even check his powers because that gave me a warning before I even sent a tell.
Grav/emp controller, ok some heal support if we needed it but I'm not pushing someone to play their seconday, I want them to lock things down.
Claws scrapper and ele/shield scrapper. Not much to say, they did as you can guess.
Missions +1/8
Our run lasted 4 missions. First mission was Nemesis, a bit rough for a "getting to know you" start but we did ok. Aoes caused a couple of isolated deaths, no wipes. Next two missions where Crey, we walked over them. And the last mission where some here keeping up with the thread may say "Oh well sure..." was the Save the Oranbegans from the Malta group.
Now I was playing a Dark/Ice tank and I have him slotted pretty well with IOs. Dark regeneration was up when I needed it, and yes while I did dip below half sometimes, I was up to full soon after. By level 44 I know when to hit it and it's usually when the last couple of mobs are beating on me.
I saw the sonic nuke as something cool that defenders don't get to do enough of and when the kin hit transference right after I was all "Heck Yeah." Little did I know you were saving my llife. Thanks bro.
I'm not the most vocal person when it comes to team conflict, because not everyone will like the team mix, some people recognize each other and have old beefs, certain missions have been seen/done enough, but pugs are like that. On Triumph I've seen a lot of experienced opinionated players and I tend to go the route of offer advice if it is hurting the team to the point of multiple wipes but other than that don't tell someone how to play their character.
So after the quoted chat above occurred, I said "Ok guys let's save it for the Malta." I knew it was the last mission because I didn't pick a side in the cold/sonic vs kin/ele. I felt a team disintegration coming and the first to bail was Psylenz.
When I said "Gj all/guys/team on a tough mission" and Psylenz responded with "bite me" and left, I sent him a tell. The jist was, "I'm sorry you had a bad run, I can't tell people how to play their toon, I hope we can team again sometime." I got no response. In the meantime others had dinner/break/cat on fire and left.
So the side I pick is, if you want to play a defender up front that's cool with me, I have a couple of defenders like that too. (kin/ele, traps/ele, dark/dark) When I get knocked down, I can either play more cautiously or I can get knocked down multiple times in one mission then blame others for not healing me. It sounds rude but yeah learn to play, bud.
LMFAO
Dyin on a pug fightin +1 X8's
And then complainin its cuz you didnt get healed.
At least you had ID on you. Thats 20% s/l resists (if i remember correctly) and mez protection.
The mez protection alone shoulda saved you from any "serious" trouble.
Bad form OP. Bad form.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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I dunno. In my experience, if a debuffing type of defender is taking that much damage, I look to the teammates to fix the problem. Tanker to hold aggro, controller to mez enemies or buff the defender, blaster to put out more AoE damage than the defender (which shouldn't be that hard).
The alternative is for the debuffing defender to stop doing what he's best at, and buffbot or leech instead. Aggro problem solved, at the cost of XP rate for the whole team. Against deep purples, this is a sad necessity, but against +1s it shouldn't need to get to that point.
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As a note, if these were Nemesis, especially on an 8x team size, the kin heal is going to be pretty unreliable anyway, since it needs to hit. Especially based on the kins team search comment of "look elsewhere for a healer" he may not have slotted it with super high accuracy. Your better bet would have been the /emp controller it sounds like was along on the team. |
Originally Posted by Psylenz
These were nemesis, so the ice shields weren't a perfect solution in themselves.
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Last time I tried targeting through another player a couple weeks ago, by the way, I couldn't get it to work, I didn't get a reticle for their target. Did something change there?
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Assisted Targeting doesn't work that great IME. Too often when I see people low on health and try to heal through them, they either have no target, an ally targeted, or their target is way too far away. I just had this problem a day or so ago when I was on my Kinetics, and was invited to a team. When I got to the mission, they were about to wipe and I tried to heal off the Tanker and at first he had no target, then when he finally did it was way out of range to get the heal.|
Originally Posted by Scientist
Last time I tried targeting through another player a couple weeks ago, by the way, I couldn't get it to work, I didn't get a reticle for their target. Did something change there?
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Kinetics may have good values on the shiny green numbers, but it's not the most dependable heal and if you really need heals NAO you're better off depending on somebody that doesn't need a target (also fun to have the target die in the middle of the cast, so it still animates but does nothing!
)
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Yes, for Transfusion I always target something directly that has lots of hit points, if I have a choice.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Assisted Targeting doesn't work that great IME.
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Even though I like to team, and do it all the time, I have come to expect nothing from PUG team mates in terms of buffs. I defend myself like I'm solo: as a defender/controller/blaster, I always carry 3-4 break frees and 3-5 greens and recombine insps to make sure I have those at all times. If I'm a fire tank and we're fighting Carnies, I load up on about 12 purples because I know I'm not going to get any help from the team. I don't ever count on team buffs for anything. If I get them, great. If not, I don't really care.
If I die, it's almost always because I didn't manage my inspirations properly, attacked when I shouldn't have, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, didn't run away or duck around a corner when I should have, and so on.
On PUGs I've just come to accept the rest of the team as another potential challenge to deal with. Lots of the time I'm surprised and get on teams with good players, and it's really fun. Other times I get on a team that doesn't have a clue. But instead of hectoring them about how bad they are, I try to lead by example. If it's too irritating I politely leave at the end of the mission.
Arguing about how team mates are playing is a waste of time. It destroys unit cohesion.
There's already enough bad blood in the world. I don't need to add more by whining while I'm playing a game that's supposed to be fun.
Let me preface this by saying I am not opposed to letting people play the way they want or am I down on any particular AT or defender.
I was playing my Cold/sonic.
[Team] Me: dont sb me if you arent going to use transfusion
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: you're kidding right?
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: thx
[Team] Me: not at all
[Team] Me: you havent used it one god damn time
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: i'm layering 12 buffs on moving targets every 30 sec
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: you run into melee and die in 10 sec
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: and i'm supposed to find you
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: can't buff around corners or out of LOS
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: i'm working top to bottom
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: if someone breaks the chain it breaks the continuity of buffing
[Team] Claws scrapper: what are you doing to our bottoms?!?!? ;P
[Team] Me: youre a pompous ***
[Team] Tool Controller: exposed bottoms??
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: lol
[Team] Idiot Kinetic: Psylenz, you amaze me
I will submit to the stern rebukes of the community, and reply to my point of view after you all have your fun.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.