While personally it doesn't offend me, the cursing to a stranger like that pointed out in the original post is just bad form. It also sounds like the team leader was trying to behave above all the drama only to get "bite me" from the OP. If it's really that important that people "lurn 2 play" and play the way you want them to maybe try acting like a grown up and set a good example. Just saying.
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Well if Psylenz was in melee despite taking too much AoE that's down to Psylenz. If I was a Cold Sonic I would be flagged as the ranged half of the group as a) most my powers doesn't require melee and b) to not be a burden as a low survivability person in a most dangerous position.|
Originally Posted by toadliquor
So the side I pick is, if you want to play a defender up front that's cool with me, I have a couple of defenders like that too. (kin/ele, traps/ele, dark/dark) When I get knocked down, I can either play more cautiously or I can get knocked down multiple times in one mission then blame others for not healing me.
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I ain't judging no one as I wasn't there but these type of threads have got to stop.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Kinetic on the team and I'm not allowed to get into the Fulcrum Shift zone because I'm the bubbler?
Does the kinetic's right to not be a healbot outweigh my right to not be a buffbot?
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You can be within range of FS without being in Melee range (it's AoE is actually fairly sizable). And going in to get a FS doesn't mean you must stay there.
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Kinetic on the team and I'm not allowed to get into the Fulcrum Shift zone because I'm the bubbler?
Does the kinetic's right to not be a healbot outweigh my right to not be a buffbot? |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Kinetic on the team and I'm not allowed to get into the Fulcrum Shift zone because I'm the bubbler?
Does the kinetic's right to not be a healbot outweigh my right to not be a buffbot? |
"If" your in a position where you could die then perhaps through unfortunate circumstances you will. Your choice. You can not always tell other people how to play. Sometimes its better to adapt play. Trying to get everyone to adapt to how you want them to play is going to be like getting blood from a stone. Bubbling is like 20 times easier than being a heal bot, there is just a real lack of excuses for not bubbling. Transfusion isn't autohit and there can be delay in getting a good target.
I've seen pics of some players and there are some that are disabled and some might be kids. It's hard not to bite when ones expectations aren't there infact if you get moody maybe it's best to just get off the game.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
everyone should just play emps.....oh right, on freedom most already do.
after that.... you wanna be in melee? Take your lumps. I do whether im on ill/rad or traps/dp, you can too. Melee is the best place to be, although sometimes when im doing my thing its a terrible place to be......for them.
Based upon that team make up, and the Tank's post, you pretty much confirm what I was thinking that it was the players and not the AT's that did not synergize well.
Hahahaha! the original post is funny! I remember when the OP used to team with us and get mad when the team would run in to fight before he could finish buffing us to his liking.... even though we steamrolled stuff!
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All right. So staying 80' away from enemies and buffbotting, except for the occasional panic nuke, screech, or siren's sn0g, would've been Psylenz's best option, in this team, with these players. I've seen this kind of situation before. Debuffers aren't the only case where you have to rein yourself in if your teammates are a bit handicapped. Blasters and offenders in general have the same problem.
Still, I think it would've been even nicer if the Kin would refrain from Speed Boosting him so he could stay in the sweet spot, close enough to the movement-floored enemies to benefit from FS, far enough not to be a Rikti sword pincushion.
Or the devs could just let us delete buffs and this whole thread becomes moot and everyone goes home happy. Right? 
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Closer to 20' instead of 80. It dramatically reduces his damage compared going into melee to get damage capped, but 20' out a Cold/Sonic can use all their powers effectively (possible exception heat loss) and stay safely out of melee range of enemies. After all, playing Cold defenders that keep up their shields will always be the squishiest player on their team, so they should make a special effort not to die.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
All right. So staying 80' away from enemies and buffbotting, except for the occasional panic nuke, screech, or siren's sn0g, would've been Psylenz's best option, in this team, with these players. I've seen this kind of situation before. Debuffers aren't the only case where you have to rein yourself in if your teammates are a bit handicapped. Blasters and offenders in general have the same problem.
Still, I think it would've been even nicer if the Kin would refrain from Speed Boosting him so he could stay in the sweet spot, close enough to the movement-floored enemies to benefit from FS, far enough not to be a Rikti sword pincushion. Or the devs could just let us delete buffs and this whole thread becomes moot and everyone goes home happy. Right? |
Though if it were me, I'd have simply asked the /emp to keep me fortted, which would have rendered the thread moot and made everybody happy.
Sure, 20' "would've been even nicer" (see 2nd paragraph of my last post), but unwanted Speed Boost makes that difficult.
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Strongly Disagree
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Sure, 20' "would've been even nicer" (see 2nd paragraph of my last post), but unwanted Speed Boost makes that difficult.
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So nice to know that you have perfect ability to control your positioning regardless of whatever speed you are moving at. Not everyone can do that. (I speak for others, since I rarely have an issue with moving too fast.)|
Originally Posted by m3lon
Strongly Disagree
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As for the OP, it looks like a bad response to a bad situation. Everyone is assuming that he was in melee simply to be in melee... What if he was in melee range hoping to god to get a heal? When I (rarely) play a kin, it bugs me that folks who get low on HP run *out* of melee; their effort to avoid more damage reduces my ability to keep them alive with my heal, often resulting in them dieing and me advising them to try and break the habit. If they are likely to die either way, at least in melee there is less of a chance of that happening.
Transfusion has a 20% increased base accuracy; this means at base tohit values and *no* slotting, it has a 90% chance to hit right off the bat. It actually has a higher overall chance to hit enemies with just 2 acc enhancers slotted than a power at base accuracy has with 3 acc enhancers. Let's not forget, as well, that Sleet was readily available, and probably used often, given the aggro concerns presented. At base values, Sleet will offer -30% defense, more than enough to cap to hit chances against an even con with no accuracy slotting on a base accuracy power. So I don't think it was so much a matter of the kin not being able to hit with Transfusion, as much as a matter of them not using it at all, which against tough foes like Malta and Nemesis, would be a very good idea, since they can dish out lots of aoe damage with very high accuracy. Heals are invaluable against them, regardless of how much other forms of mitigation you have available. And if you see the team taking damage, and you have the heal available, why not use it?
This Kin defender seemed predisposed to being a buffbot and only a buffbot, which IMO is poor playing. Of course, it's his/her choice to play as they choose, but if they don't want to play healer, why take the heal? Defenders can skip it, no sweat. Unless you are taking a power purely as a mule, or to open up later pool powers (Boxing/Tough, for example), if you have it, use it. If you don't want to use it, don't take it (if you have the choice, of course). Psylenz did overreact, and should have adjusted his playstyle a bit, but so should have the Kin. He (apparently) was using every tool in his arsenal to help the team, obviously the kin was not. You can't force them to change, but neither should they force *you* to change. Teaming is all about adapting to various other folks playstyles, and they should be willing and able to adapt to yours. If you are unwilling (as the kin seemed to be) then you are not being a team player, no matter how much buffing you do. Had I been the leader, I would have finished the mission and then probably consulted with the rest of the team about whether or not we should keep that kin. (I almost always consult; just because I have the star doesn't mean I'm the only one in charge.)
TL;DR: They were both wrong, for different reasons. It's not fair to dump on Psylenz for having a bad reaction.
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And what's so bad about being in melee simply to be in melee, anyway? Air Superiority is a perfectly good power for Defenders. So's Dreadful Wail.|
Originally Posted by WarronPeace
Everyone is assuming that he was in melee simply to be in melee... What if he was in melee range hoping to god to get a heal?
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There are MMOs out there where there are melee classes and ranged classes and maybe a mixed melee/ranged class, and if you don't play at the range you're supposed to at all times under all circumstances, you're doing it wrong. This is not such an MMO. You get that. The Kinetic on Psylenz's team should've gotten that, too.
Anyway, Psylenz's response should've been just an internal mental dialogue. "OK, Kinetic's an obvious farm kiddie, doesn't want anyone in melee but the tanker, fine, I'll just buffbot this mission, feel zero guilt for leeching since it's not my choice, pour myself a nice cold drink between 4-minute rebuff periods, sit on my fingers when someone inevitably says 'nice heals', and excuse myself to find another team when we're done." Wish I had the patience and presence of mind to do that myself, so I don't fault Psylenz for blowing a fuse. I've blown a few fuses myself in similar situations.
It has been a couple of days and whoever was the kin hasn't found this thread, so I will assume they do not post on the forums.
What I will say regarding their play style is this: sb/id kept up consistently, fulcrum shift and transference firing off regularly, short circuit sapping/damaging the enemies, I was hit with inertial reduction a time or two for crying out loud.
I will not call out the name of the toon, but the name suggested that sapping was a big part of their strategy/contribution to a team.
Before the Malta mission, I asked the team to pass any spare breakfrees to the defenders and controller to cut down on the mezzing I knew would come our way (Malta stun grenades last sooo long).
I tried passing greens to Psylenz at least once that I remember, and he was full. So, the comment about inspiration usage/management may have been a factor. In hindsight should I have stopped and asked if anyone needed greens? That could have kept things from getting bad and the ensuing quoted chat. Shoulda coulda, if I was wrong I was wrong.
Then again, in the quoted chat the kin calls Psylenz by global name. Maybe they had a run in some time back on other toons. Who the heck knows?
Psylenz was playing in melee range and died a few times. The kin was also in melee range. I did not see transfusion fire off at all, so the kin would not even heal himself I assume. (granted with cold shields on he may not have needed to). I could definitely be wrong about transfusion firing off, though. I wasn't expecting to see it, so could have turned a blind eye.
I am not against anyone getting in melee if they want, because I do the same on a few of my non melee toons. If I get knocked down then I take my lumps and get up again, but I do not blame others and "take it to the forums" under the guise of a debate. This is no debate, one person got a virtual bloody nose and started name calling.
Heals aren't buffs anyway. Now there's a debate!
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This comment most closely approximates my feelings. And it highlights that some players have a higher/lower tolerance of PuG stupidity. I enjoy PuGs. I enjoy making them better. I enjoy creating them and mowing stuff down. Once in a while you run across players that don't play their AT/Powerset quite the way you want them to and when that happens you have to adapt (a.k.a. make believe they don't exist).|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
And what's so bad about being in melee simply to be in melee, anyway? Air Superiority is a perfectly good power for Defenders. So's Dreadful Wail.
There are MMOs out there where there are melee classes and ranged classes and maybe a mixed melee/ranged class, and if you don't play at the range you're supposed to at all times under all circumstances, you're doing it wrong. This is not such an MMO. You get that. The Kinetic on Psylenz's team should've gotten that, too. Anyway, Psylenz's response should've been just an internal mental dialogue. "OK, Kinetic's an obvious farm kiddie, doesn't want anyone in melee but the tanker, fine, I'll just buffbot this mission, feel zero guilt for leeching since it's not my choice, pour myself a nice cold drink between 4-minute rebuff periods, sit on my fingers when someone inevitably says 'nice heals', and excuse myself to find another team when we're done." Wish I had the patience and presence of mind to do that myself, so I don't fault Psylenz for blowing a fuse. I've blown a few fuses myself in similar situations. |
As a regular teammate of Psylenz I can attest that he's a good player. Knows the ins and outs of powers (especially defenders) better than most. In reading this thread I can almost guarantee that we're not getting the whole picture. But from what I can tell, it was a very chaotic team. Grav troller summoning Singy in the middle of a mob? /e facepalm. Ouch. Kin not healing? Could be a result of not enough accuracy in transfusion. Busy time buffing and siphoning? Sure, could be. What I haven't seen is if the Tank had taunt. That goes a long way in keeping "melee defenders" safe. My traps defender is always shadowing the tank. By the way, some tanks need a shower after those sewer runs...
Anyway, the majority of PuGs work for me. Some don't and you have to say your goodbyes and move on.
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As an aside, there are many good players out there. It is important to bear in mind that being a good player is not a license to act like a fool. Bringing this whole little drama onto the boards screams temper tantrum and not any good play style. I have no doubt we have not seen the whole story, but I think we have seen enough to know, this really wasn't something worth posting a rant over.
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Originally Posted by Asha'man
This comment most closely approximates my feelings. And it highlights that some players have a higher/lower tolerance of PuG stupidity. I enjoy PuGs. I enjoy making them better. I enjoy creating them and mowing stuff down. Once in a while you run across players that don't play their AT/Powerset quite the way you want them to and when that happens you have to adapt (a.k.a. make believe they don't exist).
As a regular teammate of Psylenz I can attest that he's a good player. Knows the ins and outs of powers (especially defenders) better than most. In reading this thread I can almost guarantee that we're not getting the whole picture. But from what I can tell, it was a very chaotic team. Grav troller summoning Singy in the middle of a mob? /e facepalm. Ouch. Kin not healing? Could be a result of not enough accuracy in transfusion. Busy time buffing and siphoning? Sure, could be. What I haven't seen is if the Tank had taunt. That goes a long way in keeping "melee defenders" safe. My traps defender is always shadowing the tank. By the way, some tanks need a shower after those sewer runs... Anyway, the majority of PuGs work for me. Some don't and you have to say your goodbyes and move on. |
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This. |
Originally Posted by Transhade
but I think we have seen enough to know, this really wasn't something worth posting a rant over.
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It's not like the OP was getting personally insulted or anything. It's a game, afterall. If a PuG isn't working for you, leave and find another. Don't curse, don't pout, and definitely don't rant about it on the boards.
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Gadgetron - Grav/TA (Lbrty)
Ice/Kin Guide
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Originally Posted by AWRocketman
This.
It's not like the OP was getting personally insulted or anything. It's a game, afterall. If a PuG isn't working for you, leave and find another. Don't curse, don't pout, and definitely don't rant about it on the boards. |
That's an easy one. Suppose you "forgot" to ice shield the emp and kin and then stood near them. Heals would eventually have to come your way.
I understand that you're trying to point out how the kin wasnt doing his/her job properly and buffing through top-to-bottom list, but I think the real issue (IMO) in that excerpt was the OP's attitude.
I play on protector mostly, so we don't really have attitudinal players (lots of newbies tho :P). Imo, player behavior is almost as important as player skill, I you saw he was effin up, I would have sent him a tell giving him my advise an what not. The minute you bash someone in public (this goes in-game and real life too) you put that person on defense and they are not going to be as open to your ideas as they could have been.
Personally, I would not want to team with your attitude, but that may have just been a bad day for ya..
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