Important System Improvements in Going Rogue

Then what you are doing is NOT "role-playing". What you are doing is "metagaming".

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See, but you've moved it from being completly optional to being required to keep up with the marketeers. At the moment everyone is presented with exactly the same information. This would be another channel that many users would ignore and would give marketeers an advantage over them.

Wow... 2 negative reputation points on my last post... nice

To whoever left this:
You'll notice I didn't mention marketeers making prices higher, I in fact DID mention that people will still use the buy it NAO price.

Marketeers do manipulate the market for profit. I'm OK with this, it's part of the game. I'm not in favour of giving them more tools to do it.

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Your post seems to think there's only a binary set of options here; a massive overload of information, or the tiny window we have. There are many steps along this possible gradient.

Then again, the 'delete in 60' rule of the market was something that I sincerely, sincerely miss, since I loved watching people gnash their teeth and whine when they failed to read something that they were told to read. Much like the farm-creators in AE, I suppose.

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I was replying specificly to the idea of having an exportable spreadsheet. Other methods would be judges on their merits.

When was the delete in 60 days taken off?

The problem with this sort of "RP issue" is that he's RP'ing metagaming knowledge.

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So it doesn't breed and introduce more flaws into the gene^H^H^H^opinion pool?

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Which means approximately nothing.

In a class of one, you always graduate "at the top".

What also is lacking here is an idea of the actual curriculum of the class, how it was taught, how it was graded, how grades were or could be bumped, and if (and how) the grading was curved.

We also have no idea of your real age, so we have no idea how much time has passed since your high school class and what you've forgotten.

Plus there's the fact that it's terribly easy to type something that isn't true.

I'm not saying you're lying. Merely pointing at the elephant in the corner.

What I'm saying (and what Geko was probably implying) is that your protestations of cognizance of all the issues falls flat in light of your actual responses.

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What makes you think that, if there IS evidence, it's solid enough to act upon?

In an electronic auction house, do you KNOW who and what you're dealing with?

Only in very general terms.

Is there the possibility that the things you're bidding on could be stolen or otherwise ill-gotten?

YEP!

Take a look at EBay.

A couple years back I bought a laptop off EBay. When I tried to get the laptop serviced, I found out that it was stolen and was forced to surrender it to the police.

EBay provided no relief. Nor would the seller. I sued the seller, won, and STILL didn't get my money back.

I've provided my evidence to other people who were looking to use EBay.

Yet many of them still did. And thousands of people use EBay every day.

So how, EXACTLY is WW/BM dealings any different?

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I16 I believe, but it only applies to those with active accounts (if your account isn't active your stuff will still be deleted after 60 days).

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

I'd like to speak in favor of the gnashers. Not everyone has time to read everything. Not everything read is correctly understood. Not everything understood is correctly retained.

Humans are funny that way and it's not necessarily their fault. All consequences within our control should be tempered by these truths.

Did you use a credit card to purchase it? If so, there are federal protections and several that you bank probably offers related to fraudulent or otherwise unsatisfactory purchases. Look into "charge backs".

Yeah, see, this is where you lost my sympathy when you complained about not having the time to read text designed for your information in a video game you choose to play.

If we're talking, say, real life safety management I might have more sympathy, but, we're very much not.

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I wasn't asking for sympathy, but I was trying to explain why people might be that way. It's a big game with a lot of parts. All I'm advocating is that they have some kind of second chance system. Not everything has to be "you should have read it and therefore maximum consequence on the first mistake!"

Both in life and in video games, a little humanity is preferred.

Yes, they are.

The vast majority of the time? Yeah, it is.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

If you can leave something untouched for sixty days, just how much can you have valued it? Just how important could it possibly have been to you if you could post it and not check it for sixty days? Have not used the market on that character at all for sixty days?

Real life getting in the way, sure - deployments and whatnot do, in fact, happen. But at the same time, is your fake parts of your fake toys in a fake auction house in a fake world really something that merits this high rhetoric?

I guess my thought on the matter is, if it mattered to you, you'd have paid some attention. Same is true of those people who deliberately made farms and failed to read the text saying they shouldn't make farms. You have nobody to blame for your own behaviour but yourself. And the 'punishment' for your ignorance is clearly very minor.

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It's hard to argue with your point that responsibility is important, but I'm going to try to anyway just because it's not so black and white. Do YOU read all terms of service agreements for all services, all websites, all contracts, all products, all of everything you do? Do you fully understand what each and every one of them says? When you get nailed by a fee, a charge, or a consequence that you didn't understand, don't you feel justified in asking for a refund, an extension, or some leniency?

Taking advantage of people's inability to read or understand fine print was freecreditreport.com's business model and they made millions off people that way. And yet they were slapped by a class-action lawsuit because people know that when you say free all over your ads, in huge print all over the place, and even in the name of your company, but then in the legal print somewhere tell them "well no, not really", it's just not fair.

I'm NOT saying that's how it is in the game, but the question we should ask is have we done enough to make it clear what will happen? Because the wrong answer is to just say "it was written SOMEWHERE and therefore it's your fault". Ever read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

I didn't say 'fake' enough for you, did I?

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I'll ask, but I'll also clam up and accept it was my error the second someone shows me something that I ought to have read but didn't out of laziness or haste.

Not a great analogy. We're talking about people who can't be arsed to read what's right in front of them, or a button click away. Presumably this additional market info would not be buried somewhere in the EULA or carved into a stone and buried in the mud of the Nile, or otherwise unavailable to us.

Really if the information is easily available and someone chooses not to use it or even read it, that's their problem and they deserve not an ounce of sympathy for the problems that arise.

Which is the responsible person's method. I just think that there's nothing wrong with asking while some other people seem to disagree.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Is the market 60 day limit "right in front of you" or in pages of data, several clicks away? The answer to the question would determine if anything need be done or not.

Exactly

My only real point in this whole thing is that everyone is different. Some psychotically read everything they see. Others prefer to figure it out as they go. I don't think the consequences should be that severe for people who choose not to read the manual (or at least not read it in depth). It's a game after all, not a shipping yard crane.

Some would say wiping someone's market queue isn't very severe, I think it is. Maybe we won't agree on that point, but if we can agree that severe consequences should have some extra efforts to warn player (ex, the VERY obvious PVP zone warnings when entering the zone), then we don't really think that differently after all.