Eh.
My 'Main' villain is a Mind/Psy dominator, my 'Main' hero is an Illusion/emp controller.
The dominator has leverage both control/damage to the maximum of her capacity, soul drain up half the time, and triple domination.
The controller has leveraged her pets/buff as much as possible, phantom army down for 6 seconds, and permanent adrenalin boost, fortitude up for 4-5 people.
Mind/, especially permanent domination mind/, has its specialty in direct control. She's the only character I've seen that can solo permanently hold any AV (except those with unstoppable...that extra mez protection+triangles are a pain.) Everything is safe as nothing can attack.
My Illusion/empathy can't lock everything down...but with max defensed fortitude, decoys grabbing aggro, AB on whoever's vulnerable in the thick of things, RA's up half the time, and heal other up almost immediately as it goes off, and rampant confusion? Few allies are ever in danger, even IF they get attacked.
Therein lies the difference. Dominators have the best control, better than controllers, as that's their first and last line of defense most of the time. It's their armor.
Controllers don't have that, as they have a second line of defense. The enemy can attack? No problem. There are bubbles/healing/debuffs etc. to make that not hurt so bad. Dominators? If the controls miss on a boss, there's less leeway.
As to damage, that comparison varies wildly. Not on the dominator end, as they are pretty straightforward...it's the specific controller buff/debuff powers that will make controller damage differ. If you don't have those, you will have a very different experience than those that do.
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Check the numbers on dom drain psyche kthx.
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Originally Posted by Panikaze
Tell your mind/psy to solo an AV faster than a mind/rad.
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Mind Controllers are terrible AV soloists actually. Possibly one of the worst in the game. The Dom probably does have them beat there.
But the thing is you can't measure an AT by how well it solos, and especially can't measure it by how well it solos AVs. Mind Controller <> Mind Dom. Although if I knew nothing about the makeup of a team or the player and had to pick one or the other I'd pick the Controller every time because the control is good enough to get by on and the buff/debuff secondary is more helpful than the dom's damage in a lot of situations.
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Like Tex said, Mind is terrible if you actually want to kill an AV. Mind/psi is a very low damage combo (probably the lowest for doms) redeemed largely by the -regen of DP in this situation.|
Originally Posted by Terror1
Check the numbers on dom drain psyche kthx.
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I wouldn't be surprised if a damage specc'd mind/rad puts out as much dps as a mind/psi. Pretending of course the dom could actually live for more than a few seconds in the aforementioned scenario.
Damage:
Other than /fiery controllers can be built to do more st and aoe damage
Killing AV's:
Not even close, controllers eclipse dominators
Utility vs AV's:
mind doms have a nice niche role in a single encounter. Controllers have the buff/debuff that has been enabling teams and themselves to tackle the toughest stuff out there for years.
Hard Control:
Dominators. well specifically perma-doms, but there are some controller combos that get close like earth/rad, or ta.
Agro Management:
Similar to control, but adds in debuffs and soft control. Pretty even, they both do a great job of keeping a team upright.
Team Desirability:
Controllers by a country mile. They have 'enough' agro management for just about anything and they can greatly improve those around them through buff/debuff. I single troller casting freezing rain brings more to team kill speed than most doms when looked at in that specific light.
My Opinion:
I like doms a lot. They are my third favorite AT behind corrs and trollers. However, they don't do enough damage. The exception is of course /fiery which does terrific damage. All the other doms I've played feel anemic in this department before and after the revamp.
Even /nrg post revamp which has received rave reviews and is chalk full of boosted DS attacks is comprised of powers that do between the mid 40's and low 60's DPA. With no way to boost that damage and the likely occurrence of reducing it further with controls they just end up doing really low damage (like ~100 dps low). Even an ice controller (not including pet) can do close to 100 dps as long as their secondary provides some offensive boost.
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Just to nitpick, mesmerize (and sleeps for that matter) seems to be a strength vs. AV's in general. As such, it's a particularly good control in both controller and dominator hands. Domination saves from re-layering, but controllers can sleep AV's as well.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Damage:
Other than /fiery controllers can be built to do more st and aoe damage Utility vs AV's: mind doms have a nice niche role in a single encounter. Controllers have the buff/debuff that has been enabling teams and themselves to tackle the toughest stuff out there for years. |
Also, Mind/ doms with very high recharge can hold through the triangles on AV's. Not sure on other primaries, though.
It's funny that this has come to Dom vs. Controller, as it seems to overlook a fun thing in the future: (after going rogue) dom and controller teams. With that much lockdown, no foe would pose a threat. Doms would serve as an excellent containment setup for controllers, while any damage boosts from controllers would greatly enhance doms, due to their extremely high damage mods. Yum!
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!!! Oh dear god...you are right seldom! A Controller/Dom Team would be LAWL.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Just to nitpick, mesmerize (and sleeps for that matter) seems to be a strength vs. AV's in general. As such, it's a particularly good control in both controller and dominator hands. Domination saves from re-layering, but controllers can sleep AV's as well.
Also, Mind/ doms with very high recharge can hold through the triangles on AV's. Not sure on other primaries, though. It's funny that this has come to Dom vs. Controller, as it seems to overlook a fun thing in the future: (after going rogue) dom and controller teams. With that much lockdown, no foe would pose a threat. Doms would serve as an excellent containment setup for controllers, while any damage boosts from controllers would greatly enhance doms, due to their extremely high damage mods. Yum! |
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Yes..and yes. Everyone keeps overlooking this but to me it seems like it's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about. I've played on teams like this on both the LGTF and the ITF. Take two doms + two controllers..and four of any other AT and you have a steam roller! A full team of Doms and Trollers....laugh crazily as everything in sight is locked down and annihilated in seconds. And I would love to see a team of Mind/Rads, Mind/Kins, Mind/Fires, and Mind/Psis. That sounds like heaven. |
Originally Posted by Seldom
It's funny that this has come to Dom vs. Controller, as it seems to overlook a fun thing in the future: (after going rogue) dom and controller teams. With that much lockdown, no foe would pose a threat. Doms would serve as an excellent containment setup for controllers, while any damage boosts from controllers would greatly enhance doms, due to their extremely high damage mods. Yum!
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The real story isn't Dom vs. Trollers..its Doms and Trollers working together.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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It's not a nitpick as I already mentioned that as long as you don't want to kill the AV mind (both AT's) is great against AV's. When you actually want to kill them it is the worst.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Just to nitpick, mesmerize (and sleeps for that matter) seems to be a strength vs. AV's in general. As such, it's a particularly good control in both controller and dominator hands. Domination saves from re-layering, but controllers can sleep AV's as well.
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Also, Mind/ doms with very high recharge can hold through the triangles on AV's. Not sure on other primaries, though. |
You have to ask. Does being able to hold through the ptod carry much value? On the surface the answer is yes. What if it takes ~35 seconds to achieve? That yes turns in to a maybe. What if in doing so you will drastically reduce your outgoing damage and you offer little else to the encounter? That maybe starts to turn in to probably not much value.
Lvl 50 AV's just aren't dangerous enough to a team to require holding through the ptod. Now if a dom could hold through a lvl 53 AV's protection that would be a tremendous asset would likely be worth the reduction in any other contribution they bring to the encounter.
FWIW a mind dom is generally better off confusing through the ptod than holding. They can do it with much less degradation to their damage. Little is gained by actually holding them compared to confusing them for most cases.
I have both Doms and Trollers.. and to me its very simple..
BOTH are viable.. and both can be enjoyable depending in build and playstyle. IMO controls are about more than holds its about how you affect the mob overall to minimize incoming damage to the team and to defeat them quickly.
Controllers do this through control and debuffs. Dominators do it through contol and damage.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
if ur jealous don't speed boost him and don't siphon any dmg for him. if he asks admit ur jealous. But understand ur prolly the one making him uber.
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Unsportsmanlike conduct. -1 point.|
Originally Posted by Neeto
if ur jealous don't speed boost him and don't siphon any dmg for him. if he asks admit ur jealous. But understand ur prolly the one making him uber.
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To make the corniest comment I possibly could: There is no I in team- if everyone is contributing, then just be happy.
(and siphon damage? that'll barely make any difference after the fulcrum shift... you are fulcrum shifting, right?!?!?!)
Edit: Maybe I've watched too much of the world cup
The acting the opposing team did in the KOR game was just silly!
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Two arguments it seems: one being /mind dom vs /mind troller and the other being dominator vs controller in general.
Controllers have Illusion. So unless/until they proliferate Illusion to Dominators I prefer Controllers more. But that's because I personally love Illusion, being I have three level 50 Illusionists. As for /mind, I wish I had rolled a /mind dominator instead of /mind controller. I took a very long break and didn't realize how possible (and awesome) Perma-dom became, so when I rolled a /mind I went with controller without even thinking about making a dom. Sadly my mind controller just collects dust in the mid-30s.
Opinions vary. That being said, my vote goes towards the /mind dominator
FWIW, fire / kins are the outliers of the controller world; a dom with a random primary / secondary combo is most likely a better soloer than a controller with a random primary / secondary combo.