Soloing AVs/GMs worth it?
By
Ben_Arizona,
Posted on: 2010-06-12 24:37 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Lets look at it another way because despite your interpretation it isn't nearly as black and white as you'd like people to think I'm saying.|
Originally Posted by Primal
Either fight ever-bigger and -badder stuff and be a real hero, or you're pathetic and weak and second-string? You seem to be a little more into the RP aspect of this than you care to admit there Frosticus.
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Is the Stanley Cup > World PeeWee hockey championships?
Is Formula 1 racing > GoCart Racing?
Do people covet the featherweight boxing title, or the heavyweight title?
Etc.
In between each extreme there are hundreds, even thousands of potential categories. If you haven't achieved the pinnacle title that doesn't mean you aren't doing good things within your category. It just means you aren't competing on the same level as those that are achieving the ultimate titles of the entire overarching group.
In terms of CoX, you can be doing a bang up job stopping those street muggers, but you aren't in the same league as the character that stops Romulus and the Nictus all by themselves. Heart (which M E seems to be preaching) can only get you so far.
If you are happy with your character reaching their peak doing what they could easily send in a squad of like 5 R.I.P or P.P.D to do then that is your prerogative. I personally like to brush shoulders with the likes of States/LR. To each their own.
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If you're a mastermind....you haven't soloed them ICly. Since you were a lot vs one. =P| Poison Bloom (my villain main for a long time) had no real powers. And yet she can kill Lord Recluse. And she's beaten pretty much every member of the Vindicators and Freedom Phelanx to a pulp, multiple times. How does she do it? In the webcomic Magellan one of the main characters has no powers, in a world where all heroes have super powers. And yet she qualified to enter a superhero training academy. Not only that, but she preforms quite respectfully, and was key to saving the world. |
As for everyone that said Spider-man is cool and he mostly fight petty bank robbers.....
Yes he's cool ,but that's because he fights so many "unique" bosses and his sense of humor. When he's stopping random thiefs and muggers, it will rarely take more then 1-2 pages.
Vulture, Rhino, Venom, etc are all EBs at least. They might not be level 54 AVs like Sentry or Thor, but they are still a lot more powerfull then Emile Marcone or Ace McKnight. They all are unique and extremely powerfull, more then just "generic" villains like bosses are.
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Is it worth it to make sure Croatoa is safe again from these threats?
I RP often in CoX, and I pretty much agree with what Frosticus says.
I tend to notice in-game events and incorporate them IC. What I mean is, if someone RPs their character as a God, I kinda expect said character to perform feats in the realm of the game that reflect that. In other words, if Mr. God is RP'd as capable of rewriting all of reality and sneezing Lord Recluse and Statesman out of existence, and then dies because of a Hellion? I'll notice that. I'll usually comment on it IC. Nothing more than a comment or two, or friendly teasing about the inconsistency. While some people may not appreciate that much, it's that kind of reasoning that drives me to make my own characters perform better in-game as I claim them to be during RP.
Usually the only kind of actual trouble that may occur because I automatically link in-character and out-of-character ability is during PvP. That's only because people usually get pretty touchy about losing in PvP.
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I wouldn't be so sure. He's been challenged by a 2 bit punk who lucked into a force field device he could barely use. And a good number of Spiderman's named foes, are actually kinda wimpy to a degree. Mysterio for example would be better suited for Daredevil or Punisher usually. Granted, Daredevil would see through the illusions in a heartbeat.|
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
If you're a mastermind....you haven't soloed them ICly. Since you were a lot vs one. =P
As for everyone that said Spider-man is cool and he mostly fight petty bank robbers..... Yes he's cool ,but that's because he fights so many "unique" bosses and his sense of humor. When he's stopping random thiefs and muggers, it will rarely take more then 1-2 pages. Vulture, Rhino, Venom, etc are all EBs at least. They might not be level 54 AVs like Sentry or Thor, but they are still a lot more powerfull then Emile Marcone or Ace McKnight. They all are unique and extremely powerfull, more then just "generic" villains like bosses are. |
What I find cool about Spiderman isn't the foes, or himself at base. It's the fact he IS fairly low powered, yet will take on all these high threat situations. Things which might challenge guys like Thor. He doesn't usually, but the guy has the chops to punch Dracula in the nose!
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Which is an attitude on their part I don't understand. It's PvP, expect to lose now and then. No matter how awesome you are, or think you are, someone better then you exists. Sometimes you just have an off day. Sometimes your oponant surprises you with a tactic you hadn't expected. Sometimes your opponent cheeses out. It happens, deal with it.
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Originally Posted by Goshnova
Usually the only kind of actual trouble that may occur because I automatically link in-character and out-of-character ability is during PvP. That's only because people usually get pretty touchy about losing in PvP.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I do that to a degree. If someone who's power sets are the weak point of another, i'll let them say they beat it, even if they can't. For exemple: Invuln that say he beat Mynx, fire aura that say he beat Baphomet, etc.|
Originally Posted by Goshnova
I RP often in CoX, and I pretty much agree with what Frosticus says.
I tend to notice in-game events and incorporate them IC. What I mean is, if someone RPs their character as a God, I kinda expect said character to perform feats in the realm of the game that reflect that. In other words, if Mr. God is RP'd as capable of rewriting all of reality and sneezing Lord Recluse and Statesman out of existence, and then dies because of a Hellion? I'll notice that. I'll usually comment on it IC. Nothing more than a comment or two, or friendly teasing about the inconsistency. While some people may not appreciate that much, it's that kind of reasoning that drives me to make my own characters perform better in-game as I claim them to be during RP. |
What i hate is people that say they soloed "every" AVs out there, when they can't even solo an EB. Or when it really doesn't make sense. "My martial art can be statesman....nevermind that he can survive a nuke in his face." Or people that pretend they could stop Recluse for goodwith there 8-man team....without considering that he'll have his patrons and the 4-5 VG full of SoA loyalist protecting him. =P
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
Well, my scrapper solo'd a GM, and I didn't even use envenomed dagger.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
What Frosticus is really trying to say, is that he's better than you all.
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I follow in the path you have blazed my friend. Much of my interest in big game hunting came from you. After Castle took a giant **** on pvp I quit the game and had no intentions of playing again.|
Originally Posted by Silverado
What Frosticus is really trying to say, is that he's better than you all.
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To be honestly I'm not nearly as good of a player as I used to be, but I'm a lot better with calculating pve builds now.
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Originally Posted by Drexyl
So I've been considering making a toon capable of doing this for a while now. The only thing that's keeping me from doing it is that I'm not sure if it will be worth all the time and money it will take to get that character to 50, slotted with IOs. What I mean by that is, are the rewards for accomplishing such feats worth all the time it would take? For example, is there any money to be made from defeating the giant DE monsters? I guess I'm most curious about what kinds of drops you could get (if any), aside from those special inspirations, and in the case of AVs, are the drops considerably better?
If I'm going to take the time to make a toon for this, I guess I want it to be worth the time it takes. I don't want to make it if the only thing I would get out of it is being able to brag about who/what I killed solo. I have characters that can farm very well so I'm thinking I might just be better off playing them if all I'm looking to do is make money, but I know many people here have done this a lot so I was hoping to get some feedback from them on how this works for them. |
You get a TON more rewards for soloing a -1 X8 spawns in a mission then you'll EVER get soloing AV's or GM's. It's more about bragging rights, and testing the extream limits of your tricked out builds. That's honestly about it. I've got a few toons that i'd consider are "close" to AV soloers. But, the long fights bore me. And i'd prolly rather just make an alt.. heh.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
While I do appreciate you posting the most relevant response in a while (no offense folks, but we did get a little sidetracked there lol), I think that's already been addressed for the most part. Soloing at -1 x8 is indeed the fastest way of getting purples, but I prefer to do it at +0 x8 because all the other recipes that you get between purple drops sell for considerably more at lvl 50 than at lvl 49. If you're playing a survivable toon with good AoE, it won't take that much longer to kill a full spawn (if you consider an attack like Shield Charge will still take out all the minions if you go up that extra lvl in difficulty). But you're right though, even at that setting you're still going to make a lot more than you would taking down AVs.
I used to always do it without bosses, but recently I've been throwing those in as well. This might not be as effective in terms of money/time, but once in a while you strike gold as I got a LoTG +rech from a Greater Devoured the other day. Plus it makes it a little more challenging which is nice because sometimes I'll be soloing without bosses for a while and it's so easy that I start to forget I'm not actually that tough, it's just that easy. It only takes one tough mission to put me back in my place afterward.
I'm still considering making a build for AVs/GMs though. I might roll a few different toons and see which one I like the best. I'm definitely leaning towards the /rad set for the debuffs. Maybe an ill/rad or fire/rad troller, or for villains a fire/rad or sonic/rad corruptor. Any insights about these builds would certainly be welcome.
Pick Lingering Radiation. Congratulations, you win. 
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^^This.|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
I love this. "It's about the challenge." "It's about testing limits."
Please. It's about running around and saying you solo'd Recluse, because that's some epic bragging rights right there.  |
When others go and say "So and So AV is weak" I can say "Really? Did you need a team or beat him by yourself." if they say they beat them on their own, I can then ask "AV or EB?" and if they say EB, I can just snicker.
But that's me liking to think of the AVs as tough opponents when it comes to my characters. I also play on Virtue. Sooo I REALLY love to ask those questions.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Oh yea well I soloed him as an AV. (Note. solo in this case means several temp pets including shivs, all 3 nukes and a tray full of tier 3 purples and greens) |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
I DID solo Recluse. Mind you, he was an elite boss. That is still pretty rough though. When I fought Recluse on a claw/sr scrapper during an Ouro arc he managed to take out EVERY single member of the freedom phelanx and vindicators during the fight. And that was with him as an elite boss. I'd say beating him when the sucker dropped 16 sig heroes during the fight is pretty impressive. More so since I had to run back after the initial confrontation to fight him again. He killed me during the first try.
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But not all of them do. The Wheel of Distruction arc for example has you saving the world, but has no EB or AV in it. And not every AV/EB is part of a world shaking arc. Sometimes it's just bringing in a petty thug.
Think of this then. Spiderman usually deals with petty crimes. He spends more time stopping bank robbers then fighting super criminals. And the super criminals he usually faces aren't out to destroy the world. Their petty thugs with powers. Scorpion is a petty thug with revenge on his mind. Rhino is a thug who acts as hired muscle. Vulture mainly does robberies. Mysterio is a bank robber first and foremost. Green Goblin typically was after money and power in the underworld. He lately stepped up his game though. Hobgoblin was a petty thug who lucked into Goblin gear.
What is more heroic:
A normal person who dares to fight impossible odds and protect people.
or
Someone with superpowers who can trade punches with gods facing trvial danger to protect people.
Guys like Superman are interesting characters on the surface. And yet, their comic gets boring fast. The character is so powerful that nothing really threatens them. When Superman stops a bank robbery it's no big deal. When he fights terrorist cells it's not a challenge. When he fights most any super foe it's not a challenge to him. He's never in any real danger. The only danger is how much property damage will be caused during the fight. That Superman will win is a foregone conclusion, they can't beat him. Not without a 'magic bullet' type plot device. For all of superman's powers and abilities, he's boring to read about.
Writers. make. whatever. they. want. to. happen. happen.
What makes Spiderman a good character isn't his powers. It's the fact he can fail, yet tries anyway.
Superman has failed plenty of times. He's even died iirc..maybe more than once.
If you actually read and understood what I typed you probably wouldn't have responded to any of it. Just sayin'