It would involve bases, and therefore, never be implemented.
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First, I think this belong in the suggestion forums. |
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
I was thinking today about a possible inf sink that would actually improve the game and not be so me kind of tax. I thought I would run it by the market mavens and pundits before submitting to the suggestion forum. Also it might have already been discussed.
In short, switch from using prestige to influence for base building, and raise the prices on base items. Anything that can currently be bought except for personal items would eligible. How it would work: 1. Prestige is still earned but at a reduced amount, say to about 25% of current levels. 2. Recalculate rent to be based on square footage and storage to be paid with influence. 3. Keep the transfer rate from Inf to prestige the same. Since there will less prestige available it may be more attractive than before. 4. Base builders can use personal influence or collect influence from team mates to build with. (possibly set aside a percentage of inf. When running in supergroup mode that transfers to a base account) 5. Possibly raise prices on all base items to be bought by inf by adding a 0 to the end. What I think it would do is allow base builders more freedom in base design because they will be able to afford bigger plots and more rooms and items. There will still be incentives to run in SG mode because teleporters and base upgrades are personal items and must be purchased through prestige. It might be a small sink, but it would be great for personal base builders and every sink will help. So tell me what you think, why its good, why its bad, what would make it better. |
Second, I think the whole point of prestige is that all members, particularly low level members, are contributing to the SG. This is why higher level toons have to choose between influence and prestige while lower levels do not - if it were all influence, or prestige never cut into inf earning, then high level characters would be far, far more valuable to an SG and thus lower level characters (and therefore, presumably, new players) might have a harder time getting invited to an SG.
I think they should adjust the inf to prestige exchange rate to make prestige cheaper, but maybe only by adding one more zero. If it gets too close to equal, then the point of prestige is defeated.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Well, I wanted to get the opinions of the marketers who really understand the economy of CoX to vet whether or not there was any point in posting it in suggestions. I will post it there if it seems useful.
Prestige is still earned and important. All personal items such as base teleporters, supercomputers, auto-doc, mission computers, defense items still have to bought with prestige which is going to earned at slower rate, say 25% of what is now. SG's that want all the bells and whistles will still need members.
I think the ideal inf sink is something that is used 10 times by 1 character, not 1 time by 10 characters. I know every little bit helps, but...
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This would penalize small/one-player bases.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
1. Prestige is still earned but at a reduced amount, say to about 25% of current levels.
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| Recalculate rent to be based on square footage and storage to be paid with influence. |
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| Keep the transfer rate from Inf to prestige the same. Since there will less prestige available it may be more attractive than before. |
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| Base builders can use personal influence or collect influence from team mates to build with. (possibly set aside a percentage of inf. When running in supergroup mode that transfers to a base account) |
And if you're going to do an inf set-aside mechanic, why not just stick with Prestige?
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| Possibly raise prices on all base items to be bought by inf by adding a 0 to the end. |
HELL NO!
The base editing community fought long and hard for the price reductions to make base editing more accessible to people. All your suggestions so far has SQUAT to do with marketing, inf surpluses (other than incidentally), or anything else relating to inflation.
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| Items bought with Inf do not refund inf when sold/deleted. That inf is gone. Items bought prestige are refunded as per the current system. |
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| What I think it would do is allow base builders more freedom in base design because they will be able to afford bigger plots and more rooms and items. There will still be incentives to run in SG mode because teleporters and base upgrades are personal items and must be purchased through prestige. |
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| It might be a small sink, but it would be great for personal base builders and every sink will help. |
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As proprietor of a couple of one player SGs I'm not a fan of anything that makes paying for my bases more onerous than it is now.
I vividly remember the bad old days.
IMHO bases should be a fun perk anyone can mess around with, not a prestige item requiring a lot of game time to support.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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This. As it stands now we can do the low end base building and if we want to spend inf for prestige do more and I think the only things we lack are the ability to pay "anywhere" and some more base goodies.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
As proprietor of a couple of one player SGs I'm not a fan of anything that makes paying for my bases more onerous than it is now.
I vividly remember the bad old days. IMHO bases should be a fun perk anyone can mess around with, not a prestige item requiring a lot of game time to support. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Appreciate the feedback -
OK, here are some numbers.
This is for a fully funtional base with TP's to all zones, Flashback, medbay (with Autodoc), Storage (2 Enhancment tables, Inspire collector, 14 storage racks, empowerment station, invention table) and necessary power and control.
Perks: Mission Computer, Holodisplays, Breakers, upgraded plot
Decorative Items - (Not included)
Total cost in Prestige - 3,355,000
Using the method I suggested above:
Influence - 30,000,000
Prestige - 355,000
Does anyone really think that you would need to "market like crazy" to make 30,000,000?
Even if rent was higher, say 20,000 a month (about 10 times what I pay now) I just don't see these numbers as all that extreme. A level 20 toon could make that in almost no time by flipping salvage in a couple of months. Not to mention AE ticket rolls, a lucky merit roll or heaven forbid, an actual in game drop.
Granted, it isn't a huge sink (keep in mind that "no refunds" on items bought with influence), but you could build this base totally out of influence for about 1.671 Billion. Beyond the reach of everyone but eBillers I would think.
I don't know what your SGs are like, but most members of my SG are 1: completely ignorant of what base stuff costs, and 2: always broke. So we insist that everyone run in SG mode until 25, that way everyone contributes, and we have all the prestige we need without inconveniencing anyone.
Guess who's already paying for all the salvage needed to craft stuff? Yup, the base builder. Namely, me. That's enough of an inconvenience, I don't need another one.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I don't know what your SGs are like, but most members of my SG are 1: completely ignorant of what base stuff costs, and 2: always broke. So we insist that everyone run in SG mode until 25, that way everyone contributes, and we have all the prestige we need without inconveniencing anyone.
Guess who's already paying for all the salvage needed to craft stuff? Yup, the base builder. Namely, me. That's enough of an inconvenience, I don't need another one. |
Sure, I know that. I built my base the same way you did. I supplied all the salvage and even converted some inf to prestige at the ruinous rate. It took 6 months of active play by 3 players to get the base where it is now. It will take another 3 months to ge t enough to upgrade the plot.
They would or could still run in SG mode. with Inf and Prestige being set aside. It would be no different than what we have now but with the added advantage of anyone who chose to could plop down funds and do a base without running for months and months to get the prestige.
I am thinking this would be more of boon for those who like to solo or small SGs or just like to build bases as well as a small inf sink.
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Hmm..so what do you really think? |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
HELL NO!
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Actually when you look at the numbers I've posted I think you only have to have the resources of an active player. I don't really think it would be hard to earn a few million, but you would still have the set aside for those who are market clueless.
Keep in mind that almost all these prices are paid in influence which is plentiful. Numerous posters in this forum have pointed out that you actively have to avoid making money to be poor.
I think this would make base builing accessible to just about everyone who wanted to do so.
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Ok I get it now. You have a small SG and want a big SG's base.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Sure, I know that. I built my base the same way you did. I supplied all the salvage and even converted some inf to prestige at the ruinous rate. It took 6 months of active play by 3 players to get the base where it is now. It will take another 3 months to ge t enough to upgrade the plot.
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Small SGs are supposed to have--get this--small bases. That's why we got all kinds of starter items and stuff, so you could have something. Big bases are for big SGs.
And I don't care if it's 30 million or 1 million, it's my inf and I'm spending it on me. The current system allows me, and everyone else, to contribute to the group without giving up a dime.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I don't see the need to mess with bases, other than to improve them and make them more fun.
my idea of an ideal inf sink is MOAR STUFF to buy, not taxing the stuff we already have.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Okay. You asked for it.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Hmm..so what do you really think?
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Better?
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| Actually when you look at the numbers I've posted I think you only have to have the resources of an active player. I don't really think it would be hard to earn a few million, but you would still have the set aside for those who are market clueless. |
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| Keep in mind that almost all these prices are paid in influence which is plentiful. Numerous posters in this forum have pointed out that you actively have to avoid making money to be poor. |
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| I think this would make base builing accessible to just about everyone who wanted to do so. |
Immediately on hitting level 10? No. But nobody ever intended a new player to have a max-sized base with all the trimmings on their first L10 anyhow.
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You do realize that the current inf to prestige exchange rate (which you advocated keeping) is 500:1 not 10:1 as you seem to be assuming. So 3million prestige in inf is actually 1.5 billion inf not 30 million.|
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
This is for a fully funtional base with TP's to all zones, Flashback, medbay (with Autodoc), Storage (2 Enhancment tables, Inspire collector, 14 storage racks, empowerment station, invention table) and necessary power and control.
Perks: Mission Computer, Holodisplays, Breakers, upgraded plot Decorative Items - (Not included) Total cost in Prestige - 3,355,000 Using the method I suggested above: Influence - 30,000,000 Prestige - 355,000 Does anyone really think that you would need to "market like crazy" to make 30,000,000 |
Personally I think providing a better inf to prestige conversion rate would make it a better inf sink since people are more likely to go for 100:1 or 50:1 (or maybe even as low as 10:1) instead of the current 500:1.
Heck, based on Fulmen's work a lot of people are willing to go 250:1.
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A better conversion ratio would make an awesome inf sink, and here's why:|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Personally I think providing a better inf to prestige conversion rate would make it a better inf sink since people are more likely to go for 100:1 or 50:1 (or maybe even as low as 10:1) instead of the current 500:1.
Heck, based on Fulmen's work a lot of people are willing to go 250:1. |
IT'S OPTIONAL.
If you want a big fancy base NAO you can spend a bunch of inf, but if you're willing to start small and build up as you can afford it, there's still the old-fashioned way.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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You are correct. I dropped a 0 on my Excel spread sheet. The total cast to build the base out of inf would 1.671 billion. I'll fix the original post.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
You do realize that the current inf to prestige exchange rate (which you advocated keeping) is 500:1 not 10:1 as you seem to be assuming. So 3million prestige in inf is actually 1.5 billion inf not 30 million.
Personally I think providing a better inf to prestige conversion rate would make it a better inf sink since people are more likely to go for 100:1 or 50:1 (or maybe even as low as 10:1) instead of the current 500:1. Heck, based on Fulmen's work a lot of people are willing to go 250:1. |
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No, not really. I just want to add more storage. What exactly does a big SG base have that I need?
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Ok I get it now. You have a small SG and want a big SG's base.
Small SGs are supposed to have--get this--small bases. That's why we got all kinds of starter items and stuff, so you could have something. Big bases are for big SGs. And I don't care if it's 30 million or 1 million, it's my inf and I'm spending it on me. The current system allows me, and everyone else, to contribute to the group without giving up a dime. |
Well guys, thanks for all the input! Very helpful.
I guess we will just figure if the marketers see no value in it certainly the base builders won’t so there really isn’t any reason to bother posting it in the suggestion forum.
It seems to me though that the only way base building is gonna get some love is if base builders make up a bigger percentage of the population. Virtue and Freedom SG’s might not have a problem recruiting dozens of members but other servers that is not the case at all. Even with a fully functional base, the population is too low for any but the most well established groups.
I thought that letting people spend Influence to buy the basics and prestige to buy the fancy stuff would allow for more bases and thus more interest in base building.
PS. Nethergoat is correct. MOAR STUFF to buy would be good.
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Yes, it does. And the solution, in my opinion, is to introduce personal 'apartments' that use the same base-building system. This would make the system accessible at a basic level to EVERYONE.
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Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
It seems to me though that the only way base building is gonna get some love is if base builders make up a bigger percentage of the population.
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That would be pretty sweet but they will need some more furniture. Cots and exam tables don't look to comfortable to sleep in!
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Yes, it does. And the solution, in my opinion, is to introduce personal 'apartments' that use the same base-building system. This would make the system accessible at a basic level to EVERYONE.
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I was thinking today about a possible inf sink that would actually improve the game and not be so me kind of tax. I thought I would run it by the market mavens and pundits before submitting to the suggestion forum. Also it might have already been discussed.
In short, switch from using prestige to influence for base building, and raise the prices on base items. Anything that can currently be bought except for personal items would eligible.
How it would work:
1. Prestige is still earned but at a reduced amount, say to about 25% of current levels.
2. Recalculate rent to be based on square footage and storage to be paid with influence.
3. Keep the transfer rate from Inf to prestige the same. Since there will less prestige available it may be more attractive than before.
4. Base builders can use personal influence or collect influence from team mates to build with. (additionally a percentage of inf. would be collected when running in supergroup mode that transfers to a base account)
5. Raise prices on all base items to be bought by inf by adding a 0 to the end.
6. Items bought with Inf do not refund inf when sold/deleted. That inf is gone. Items bought prestige are refunded as per the current system.
What I think it would do is allow base builders more freedom in base design because they will be able to afford bigger plots and more rooms and items. There will still be incentives to run in SG mode because teleporters and base upgrades are personal items and must be purchased through prestige.
It might be a small sink, but it would be great for personal base builders and every sink will help.
So tell me what you think, why it’s good, why it’s bad, what would make it better.