AT Suggestion: Leader/Marauder
Respectable idea in theory, but you need to consider balance a little more.
DPS, control, and defense seems a bit tough to balance out. I'd be dropping the attack potency significantly.
You're offering controller/scrapper combos. Not a bad idea, but then you've got control (which keeps you alive) and defenses (which keep you alive) and then DPS for a secondary (for killing mobs) and that's a dangerous combination because you make OP farming out of the box.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
Respectable idea in theory, but you need to consider balance a little more.
DPS, control, and defense seems a bit tough to balance. |
Gravitic Alteration
Tier 1: Temporary Invulnerability: 22.5% Res (Smashing/Lethal)
Tier 2: Gravity Distortion
Tier 3: Crushing Field
Tier 4: Unyielding: 3.75% Res (Smashing/Lethal) 7.5% Res (Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold/Toxic)
Tier 5: Resist Physical Damage: 7.5% Res (Smashing/Lethal)
Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field
Tier 7: Invincibility: 3.75% Def (all but Psi) .75% (for each additional target)
Tier 8: Wormhole
Tier 9: Unstoppable: +52.5% Resist (All but Psi)
So outside of Unstoppable that's only 33.75% resistance to smashing/lethal and 7.5% resistance to all other damage types. With SOs that's roughly 50% resistance to smashing/lethal and 10% to all others but psi. Add in the defense of around 17% and it's -fairly- survivable.... unless you fight anyone dishing out any damage other than smashing and lethal, to which you have low resistances (10%)
Now with IOs you could probably make a fairly -strong- defensive build. However IOs are not used in balancing metrics.
-Rachel-
*Edit* Basically, until you get to the AoE control levels, a Leader or Marauder will have to rely on his low levels of defense while focusing on harder targets, while using his controls to actively stop lesser threats with greater numbers. It's a combination of Active and Passive defenses which requires a careful or defensive playstyle.
I'd suggest taking out the tier 9 armours, and keeping them to pets or something similar.
Aside from that...my limitedly critical eye for builds seems to like it =P
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Well... Let's see Gravitic Control's real numbers.
Gravitic Alteration Tier 1: Temporary Invulnerability: 22.5% Res (Smashing/Lethal) Tier 2: Gravity Distortion Tier 3: Crushing Field Tier 4: Unyielding: 3.75% Res (Smashing/Lethal) 7.5% Res (Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold/Toxic) Tier 5: Resist Physical Damage: 7.5% Res (Smashing/Lethal) Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field Tier 7: Invincibility: 3.75% Def (all but Psi) .75% (for each additional target) Tier 8: Wormhole Tier 9: Unstoppable: +52.5% Resist (All but Psi) So outside of Unstoppable that's only 33.75% resistance to smashing/lethal and 7.5% resistance to all other damage types. With SOs that's roughly 50% resistance to smashing/lethal and 10% to all others but psi. Add in the defense of around 17% and it's -fairly- survivable.... unless you fight anyone dishing out any damage other than smashing and lethal, to which you have low resistances (10%) Now with IOs you could probably make a fairly -strong- defensive build. However IOs are not used in balancing metrics. -Rachel- |
IMHO, .02 inf and all that. Not trying to be a negative nancy because I like the idea.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
The idea was to give them the Dominator Assault sets for their primary. So yeah, it would be feasible to remain at range against minions and lieutenants, take less damage, and only really have issues with Bosses, EBs, AVs, and special case enemies (enemies with mez protection of various kinds)
For sake of argument let's say you made an Ice Assault/Ice Alteration Leader or Marauder.
Ice Patch is a point blank area of effect power, in order to use it effectively you have to either place it and drag aggro through it, or enter into melee range and then place it.
Let's take a look at Ice Alteration's Real Numbers on it's defenses, however.
Frozen Armor grants 12.75% defense to smashing/lethal, 22.5% resistance to cold, and 9.37% fire resistance. Wet Ice drops another 22.5% resistance to Cold. Permafrost another 22.5% resistance to Cold and 9.37% resistance to fire. 67.5% Cold resistance, 18.74% Fire resistance, and 12.75% defense to smashing lethal... A fairly weak set without the use of Ice Patch to KD enemies pretty consistently. It's also why I gave them an AoE Sleep rather than an AoE immobilize, to mitigate some more of the incoming damage rather than rely on (enhanced) Capped ice resistance, 28% fire resistance, and 19% smashing/lethal defense.
You're going to fight a lot more smashing/lethal enemies than cold ones. And both Energy and Psi damage are more common than Ice.
-Rachel-
I'd suggest taking out the tier 9 armours, and keeping them to pets or something similar.
Aside from that...my limitedly critical eye for builds seems to like it =P |
-Rachel-
For sake of argument let's say you made an Ice Assault/Ice Alteration Leader or Marauder.
Ice Patch is a point blank area of effect power, in order to use it effectively you have to either place it and drag aggro through it, or enter into melee range and then place it. |
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
Ice Alteration was given Ice Slick, which is the BIG ice patch which has a targeting reticle and doesn't need Line of Sight. That power alone is what makes me curious about balance, lol.
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Admittedly, I've never played an Ice... anything. I'm just not a fan of Ice Control, Armor, Blast, or Cold Domination. But for the sake of argument let's combine Ice Patch (range) and Ice Slick (area) for the power.
PBAoE giant ice patch.
-Rachel-
Okay, the idea has legs but I think the Dominator Assaults are a bad idea (Drain Psyche comes to mind as a little much)
I think to fit the idea of a Leader or a Marauder, you perhaps should have a primary set focusing less on attacking and more on buffing - a leader being able to keep his team alive through tactics and maneuverability seems more fitting.
Example idea of set for Primary:
Leading by Force
Tier 1: Force Smash (Moderate energy/smash damage with knockdown, using Seismic Smash's animation)
Tier 2: Deflection Shield (Less than controller values)
Tier 3: Insulation Shield (Less than controller values)
Tier 4: Force Wave (Cone attack energy/smash with Knockdown, using Power Push anim from Doms)
Tier 5: Dispersion Field (Less than controller values, and 3/4 the diameter)
Tier 6: Energy Tap (New power: Briefly disorients a group around a targeted enemy and siphons a mediocre amount of endurance from them, like consume and Flash Fire had a kid)
Tier 7: Force Wall (Modified power allows you to anchor a teammate with this power at 1/8 the diameter - the mechanics on Force wall seem different from, say, Repulsion Field, so I chose that one)
Tier 8: Repulsion Bomb (Extreme DMG Targeted AoE, very close range)
Tier 9: Force Pulse (New power drains your endurance completely on completion but allows PBAoE knockdown/Def Debuff anchored on yourself for 30 seconds on a 2 second pulse with a 10% defense (all positions, excludes self) buff to all teammates within 15 feet. Very Long recharge)
This idea is ridiculous, perhaps, under scrutiny. But with the control and the defenses, limiting the amount of attacks might be a way to go for the primaries. You have a Mastermind's level of assault capacity but your team is your minions. This fits the definition of a Leader/Marauder better for me.
Alternatively, imagine if the Dominator Assault was simply ported over and things like Power Boost and Drain Psyche were available for some of your secondaries.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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Commenting only on this: I've asked about it before, and apparently this is simply not possible under the current game engine.
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The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
So the AT would become...
Primary: Ranged/Melee/Buff
Secondary: Defense/Control
... I don't like it. This would require the Developers to create two whole new sets of powers (at -least-) for each combination of powers (Fire/Fire/Thermal primary Fire/Fire secondary) while using the Assault sets allows them to have half their work complete and gives them someplace to proliferate Assault sets to.
In addition it also lets players fulfill the "Iceman" concept. Using one power to do multiple things. Iceman was not a controller, a scrapped, or a blaster, but could instead use his one power (Ice Generation) in many different ways. This AT idea would allow you to do that with fire, cold, energy, electricity, mental power, plant control, and mineral manipulation.
Though there are a few instances where one or two powers from the Assault or Control set could tip the balance towards "OP" one one set or set combination, but that's what testing and nerfing (or buffing) is for.
-Rachel-
You will more than likely have to drop the control numbers to something less than controller levels. Right now a mid-level controller can easily lock down 3 to 4 targets by cycling through them with their single target hold alone. Add in scrapper level defenses, ranged attacks and a pet and your risk level drops to almost nil.
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

I'm just throwing ideas out there.
The idea of ranged assault with scrapperish toggles just irks me. Trying to stir the pot a bit and see what others come up with.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
I have a 50 in every AT, but Scrappers and Dominators are my favorites.
I'm just throwing ideas out there.
The idea of ranged assault with scrapperish toggles just irks me. Trying to stir the pot a bit and see what others come up with. |
I agree but I am willing to play along this round.

>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

You will more than likely have to drop the control numbers to something less than controller levels. Right now a mid-level controller can easily lock down 3 to 4 targets by cycling through them with their single target hold alone. Add in scrapper level defenses, ranged attacks and a pet and your risk level drops to almost nil.
> |
Maybe lower the duration, rather than the magnitude, so that with SO 3-slotting on recharge you can only get the single target hold up as it's ending? It would keep players from popping holds on multiple targets, for the most part. Outliers like Hasten and Extreme recharge builds with IOs shouldn't be too heavily factored in, since the sets need to maintain basic levels of survivability solo, without Hasten, and with SOs only, since IOs aren't accounted for in balancing.
Besides. If you're spamming holds you aren't attacking or dishing out damage, since I noted, previously, that the Alteration Set baseline controls wouldn't do damage. =-3
-Rachel-
You're kidding, right...? I honestly didn't know you could get your hold's recharge all that low. Hmm...
Maybe lower the duration, rather than the magnitude, so that with SO 3-slotting on recharge you can only get the single target hold up as it's ending? It would keep players from popping holds on multiple targets, for the most part. Outliers like Hasten and Extreme recharge builds with IOs shouldn't be too heavily factored in, since the sets need to maintain basic levels of survivability solo, without Hasten, and with SOs only, since IOs aren't accounted for in balancing. Besides. If you're spamming holds you aren't attacking or dishing out damage, since I noted, previously, that the Alteration Set baseline controls wouldn't do damage. =-3 -Rachel- |
HOLD - 18.15 * 2.14885 = 39 seconds
RECHARGE - 8 / 1.7659 = 4.5 seconds
And like this for Blind:
HOLD - 15.125 * 2.14885 = 32.5 seconds
RECHARGE - 9 / 1.7659 = 5 seconds
As you can see even Blind allows one to easily lock down up to 4 targets without having to spam holds. There is ample time for a Leader/Marauder to apply any ranged damage in between holds and end the fight fairly quickly with little to no risk. It's fairly easy to do right now with a controller that has no defenses of which to speak.
You could certainly lower the hold duration so that a player is relying on both the holds and the defenses for survival but then you are cutting into their damage output since they will have to be actively throwing out non damage 'attacks' in order to stay on their feet.
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

Wow. Yes. Well. I can see how that Holding method could keep 4 minions or lieutenants in check, permanently... However I also see it takes 18 seconds (minimum) to lock all four down... During which you're taking damage from 3, then 2, then 1. And this, combined with lower defenses and scrapper hit points, could be all it takes to deal some irreparable damage...
Add in the case of a single miss, early on, you wind up waiting an extra 4 seconds to get the fourth (or fifth). So it -would- be difficult up to SO level to hang through fights, right? And even -at- SO level, Bosses could still be a problem, for the 1-2 hits they land before the second hold stacks. And even then the LTs and Minions are still wailing on your lower than scrapper defenses...
Could the duration of the hold be shortened so it's only possible to hold 2-3 enemies for any length of time?
-Rachel-
Now with IOs you could probably make a fairly -strong- defensive build. However IOs are not used in balancing metrics.
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CoH isn't balanced around IOs and they are "not necessary", but they are still considered in any and all balanced metrics. If a power/powerset/build/AT is way too powerful with certain IOs, then changes are made, whether it be to the power/powerset/build/ATs unbalanced by said IOs or the IOs themselves (see Blessing of the Zephyr nerf). Fortunately, many of those balance issues don't make it to Live.
A fantastic suggestion that you've obviously put alot of work into
I was with the idea until I got to this...
Now.. For the Inherent power.
Leaders, being heroes, would gain a constant +15% HP buff while solo. For every teammate added (max of 3) they lose 5% of their HP buff and instead grant the team +2% Accuracy and +3% damage per teammate, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. They also gain this buff. Marauders, being villains, would gain a 15% endurance discount while solo. With each teammate they added their own damage would increase by 5%, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. Teammates gain 1/2 of this buff. |
A 15% endurance discount does not equate to a +15% HP buff. Not even close.
Other than that, looks great.
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[CENTER][SIZE=1][COLOR=white]The #1 True Villain badge collector on Infinity.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/CENTER]
I'd like to comment on this, but I don't know if you've got some Grudge against me, Spunkette. You always seem rather...vocal about your stance when I'm in the picture...don't know why. I can argue with someone like Samuel_Tow and still not be on his bad side...
Anyway, the idea is intriguing but I have conceptual issues with the pairings. For sets like Ice Alteration, Electric Alteration, Fire Alteration and even Energy Alteration, there's not much problem. But stuff like Nature Alteration, Gravitic Alteration, it creates pairings that reach a bit further than necessary.
If a character wants to use this AT for a plant themed character, Regeneration may not 'fit' or alternatively, if they wanted a regen themed character, plant may not fit. And what about things like Super Reflexes or Shield Defense?
Personally, for this AT, I'd look into maybe a defense/buff type combo for the secondary but even there, the concepts begin to reach. Perhaps just pure defense secondary with a combo of range (or melee) and control for the primary? Anyway, that's my overall opinion. But then I've heard more pleas for a melee/buff combo so looking at it from that angle.

Wow. Yes. Well. I can see how that Holding method could keep 4 minions or lieutenants in check, permanently... However I also see it takes 18 seconds (minimum) to lock all four down... During which you're taking damage from 3, then 2, then 1. And this, combined with lower defenses and scrapper hit points, could be all it takes to deal some irreparable damage...
Add in the case of a single miss, early on, you wind up waiting an extra 4 seconds to get the fourth (or fifth). So it -would- be difficult up to SO level to hang through fights, right? And even -at- SO level, Bosses could still be a problem, for the 1-2 hits they land before the second hold stacks. And even then the LTs and Minions are still wailing on your lower than scrapper defenses... Could the duration of the hold be shortened so it's only possible to hold 2-3 enemies for any length of time? -Rachel- |
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

But then I've heard more pleas for a melee/buff combo so looking at it from that angle.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat


AT: Leader/Marauder
Overview.
The Leader/Marauder AT is a combination design. Ranged/Melee for a primary with Defense/Control for their secondary. The method used for this design is a whole new secondary powerset build and the Primary being Dominator "Domination" sets. The AT will use both passive and active defenses in combat to survive, while pelting enemies at range or thrashing them in melee.
AT Multipliers
Ranged Damage: 0.85 (Between Peacebringer and Dominator)
Melee Damage: 1.15 (Between Dominator and Scrapper)
Defense Modifiers: As Scrapper
Control Modifiers: As Controller
HP Scale: As Scrapper
These numbers increase the Leader/Marauder's melee damage compared to a Dominator while lowering their ranged damage only slightly. They are given medium defenses, and strong control effects. However neither their Defense or Control effects are comprehensive. This means that while the player has controls they likely won't be able to stack them, and while they have some baseline defenses they won't be well-defended in melee. This can be achieved by building secondary powersets which contain 4 control powers (Single Target Hold, Area of Effect Immobilization or Sleep, AoE Hold, and Signature Control) and 4 Defensive powers (Baseline Toggle, Mez Protection Toggle, Taunt Toggle, Baseline Automatic Power) And either a Controller Pet or a Tier 9 defensive power. It should be noted that the three Baseline control effects would not contain damage components (single target Hold, AoE Sleep/Immobilize, or AoE Hold). The following example combines Invulnerability with Gravity Control.
Gravitic Alteration
Tier 1: Temporary Invulnerability
Tier 2: Gravity Distortion
Tier 3: Crushing Field
Tier 4: Unyielding
Tier 5: Resist Physical Damage
Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field
Tier 7: Invincibility
Tier 8: Wormhole
Tier 9: Unstoppable
As you can see, the set would resist smashing and lethal damage just as well as any other invulnerable scrapper, but would rely more heavily on control effects versus other damage types in most cases.
An Example of a set which ends with a pet would be Ice Alteration.
Ice Alteration
Tier 1: Frozen Armor
Tier 2: Block of Ice
Tier 3: Flash Freeze
Tier 4: Wet Ice
Tier 5: Permafrost
Tier 6: Glacier
Tier 7: Ice Slick
Tier 8: Icicles
Tier 9: Jack Frost
As you can see the set is relatively "Light" on defenses by comparison to Gravitic Alteration. Lacking a Tier 9 defensive power, it uses a large AoE Knockdown effect to increase it's survivability, added to more damage and minor control from the Jack Frost Pet.
I'd also like to suggest Fire Alteration (Fire Armor/Fire Control), Plant Alteration (Regeneration/Plant Control), And Stone Alteration (Stone Armor/Earth Control) all recieve pet powers. While Mental Alteration (Willpower/Mind Control) and Electrical Alteration (Electric Armor/Electrical Control) receives the Tier 9 Defensive treatment. Regeneration, lacking any toggles aside from it's mez protection, will gain a self-heal and a self rez, instead.
So without further ado, here are the remaining sets as designed.
Fire Alteration
Tier 1: Fire Shield
Tier 2: Char
Tier 3: Fire Cages
Tier 4: Plasma Shield
Tier 5: Temperature Protection
Tier 6: Cinders
Tier 7: Blazing Aura
Tier 8: Flashfire
Tier 9: Fire Imps
Nature Alteration
Tier 1: Reconstruction
Tier 2: Strangler
Tier 3: Roots
Tier 4: Integration
Tier 5: Resilience
Tier 6: Vines
Tier 7: Carrion Creepers
Tier 8: Revive
Tier 9: Flytrap
Stone Alteration
Tier 1: Rock Armor
Tier 2: Fossilize
Tier 3: Stone Cages
Tier 4: Rooted
Tier 5: Stone Skin
Tier 6: Volcanic Gasses
Tier 7: Mud Pots
Tier 8: Quicksand
Tier 9: Animate Stone
Mental Alteration:
Tier 1: Mind Over Body
Tier 2: Dominate
Tier 3: Mass Hypnosis
Tier 4: Indomitable Will
Tier 5: High Pain Tolerance
Tier 6: Total Domination
Tier 7: Rise To The Challenge
Tier 8: Mass Confusion
Tier 9: Strength of Will
Electrical Alteration
Tier 1: Charged Armor
Tier 2: Electric Shackles
Tier 3: Electrifying Fences
Tier 4: Static Shield
Tier 5: Grounded
Tier 6: (Insert AoE Electric Hold name here after Going Rogue Announcement)
Tier 7: Lightning Field
Tier 8: (AoE Electric Control power, preferably with a repeating effect)
Tier 9: Power Surge
As a bonus idea; a Gravity Control/Energy Aura powerset would also be lovely. And as a twist of strangeness let's go ahead and make it the one with the highest survivability of the Alteration powersets since Energy has no taunt aura and no self-rez power.
Energy Alteration
Tier 1: Kinetic Shield
Tier 2: Gravity Distortion
Tier 3: Crushing Field
Tier 4: Entropy Shield
Tier 5: Dampening Field
Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field
Tier 7: Power Shield
Tier 8: Wormhole
Tier 9: Overload
Now.. For the Inherent power.
Leaders, being heroes, would gain a constant +15% HP buff while solo. For every teammate added (max of 3) they lose 5% of their HP buff and instead grant the team +2% Accuracy and +3% damage per teammate, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. They also gain this buff.
Marauders, being villains, would gain a 15% endurance discount while solo. With each teammate they added their own damage would increase by 5%, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. Teammates gain 1/2 of this buff.
Now... What do people think of this idea? Any suggestions, ideas, criticisms, or points that should be clarified?
-Rachel-