Q's for Martial Arts masters


American_Dynamo

 

Posted

Hey fellow Scrappers. I'm looking to roll up a new toon for Going Rogue. I've settled on Martial Arts as the primary but I've never played the set before so I'm in need of some guidance. I read through Spider_Teo's guide but I have a few questions.

1) Is the all Smashing damage a serious problem at higher levels? I know the damage type is commonly resisted but I've never played a toon that uses purely Smashing damage. I'm considering slotting Touch of Death procs to offset the issue if it's really noticeable but they're pricey since you need the complete set to get the melee Defense bonus.

2) Should I skip Crippling Axe Kick? I've read that the power's commonly skipped by MA users due to its quirks but I've never had the chance to try it out.

3) What's the most synergistic secondary? I've got a feeling that Dark Armor would be preferable for Oppressive Gloom but I'm not sure. My concept for this toon is a shapeshifter so I've got a lotta leeway in terms of what works.

4) How well does MA fare against very hard targets? By definition I'm a casual gamer. In CoX terms I'm a little bit more. I'm not looking to solo AVs or take on a pylon but I like knowing that if an Elite Boss pops up in a mission I don't necessarily need to scour the team window.

I appreciate any advice you guys can give. I started with Scrappers and I'm looking to get back into the groove of the AT.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeshadow View Post

1) Is the all Smashing damage a serious at higher levels?I know the damage type is commonly resisted but I've never played a toon that uses purely Smashing damage. I'm considering slotting Touch of Death procs to offset the issue if it's really noticeable but they're pricey since you need the complete set to get the melee Defense bonus.
It was never a problem to me, but the procs would be a good ideal. Just don't hurt your attacks by doing this.

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2) Should I skip Crippling Axe Kick? I've read that the power's commonly skipped by MA users due to its quirks but I've never had the chance to try it out.
Crippling Axe Kick is a good attack for MA I think it was buff sometime ago. It is part of the best DPS attack chain for MA which is CAK>SK>CK>SK. But that does take a lot of recharge but you will want Crippling Axe Kick.
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3) What's the most synergistic secondary? I've got a feeling that Dark Armor would be preferable for Oppressive Gloom but I'm not sure. My concept for this toon is a shapeshifter so I've got a lotta leeway in terms of what works.
Any secondary will go good with it, I love my MA/SD toon. So really it what fits your concept the best.

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4) How well does MA fare against very hard targets? By definition I'm a casual gamer. In CoX terms I'm a little bit more. I'm not looking to solo AVs or take on a pylon but I like knowing that if an Elite Boss pops up in a mission I don't necessarily need to scour the team window.
You're a Scrapper you should do just fine agains EBs. Some EBs that have very high resis to smashing might be a little hard but just pop a very reds and you will be fine.


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Posted

You can certainly take on EBs just fine with MA, and if you build it right, you could take on AVs (though it sounds like you don't care about that... nor do I, heh). My MA Scrapper soloed through all the EBs in the game, though of course the ones with Tier 9s are more annoying.

I personally love my MA/Regen. I grabbed Air Superiority, and that with the Stuns in MA are nice mitigation if I need it (no redraw to worry about, either). But it'd work fine with other powersets, too.

For damage, a lot of high level mobs have resists to a lot of damage, including Smashing, so you will run into that. Current Praetorian robots are a little weak to Smashing, I think (or they don't resist it), so it's not all stacked against you. Anyway, I picked up procs while slotting my attacks well and that helps, so I would recommend doing it (though it's a good idea for most characters when you can do it as well).

I personally enjoy Eagle's Claw a lot (it's hard for me to not like leaping into the air and kicking a guy's face in, hehe), but believe CAK now has better DPS. However, Cobra Strike + Eagle's Claw can nicely stun bosses with annoying auras and/or damage (or on their own for lts or minions). EC also has a 15% chance to crit, which is higher than most attacks, including CAK (if I'm looking at the numbers right). So there are pros and cons to both.


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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
You can certainly take on EBs just fine with MA, and if you build it right, you could take on AVs (though it sounds like you don't care about that... nor do I, heh). My MA Scrapper soloed through all the EBs in the game, though of course the ones with Tier 9s are more annoying.

I personally love my MA/Regen. I grabbed Air Superiority, and that with the Stuns in MA are nice mitigation if I need it (no redraw to worry about, either). But it'd work fine with other powersets, too.

For damage, a lot of high level mobs have resists to a lot of damage, including Smashing, so you will run into that. Current Praetorian robots are a little weak to Smashing, I think (or they don't resist it), so it's not all stacked against you. Anyway, I picked up procs while slotting my attacks well and that helps, so I would recommend doing it (though it's a good idea for most characters when you can do it as well).

I personally enjoy Eagle's Claw a lot (it's hard for me to not like leaping into the air and kicking a guy's face in, hehe), but believe CAK now has better DPS. However, Cobra Strike + Eagle's Claw can nicely stun bosses with annoying auras and/or damage (or on their own for lts or minions). EC also has a 15% chance to crit, which is higher than most attacks, including CAK (if I'm looking at the numbers right). So there are pros and cons to both.
I stay away from eagles claw and cobra strike because with all set enchancments theres nothing I can't kill faster than it take to stun them. Typically those attacks are ineffective against EBs and AVs. Eagles Claw might seem awesome, and sure it looks good, but honestly for the animation time, its a pretty crappy attack. Thunder kick is nearly worthless.
I run with Regen as my secondary, I have no problem with EBs and can take many AVs solo. I reccommend Storm Kick, Crippling axe kick, and crane kick as attacks, as well as dragon's tail. You don't really need anything more than that.


 

Posted

My very first Scrapper was MA/Regen ... My theory on attacks is MORE is always better than less and I have them all along with Air Superiority. When I got to Epics I took Body Mastery which added Focused Accuracy and now even my Vet reward Sands of Mu is effective and in my attack chain. I am not one to spend Billions IOing out a characetr but she does have generic 50 level Ios in most slots and can handle ANY EB. If it gives you any more incentive to try.. I tend to like trying different powersets but I have TWO MA/Regen scrappers at level 50 now and the second has Dimensional Warder after soloing all of those Praetorians as Elite Bosses.

It may not be the most DPS scrapper out there but it will definately hold its own solo or on a team and i like the animations. Enjoy your new addition and have fun! :-D


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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
My very first Scrapper was MA/Regen ... My theory on attacks is MORE is always better than less and I have them all along with Air Superiority. When I got to Epics I took Body Mastery which added Focused Accuracy and now even my Vet reward Sands of Mu is effective and in my attack chain. I am not one to spend Billions IOing out a characetr but she does have generic 50 level Ios in most slots and can handle ANY EB. If it gives you any more incentive to try.. I tend to like trying different powersets but I have TWO MA/Regen scrappers at level 50 now and the second has Dimensional Warder after soloing all of those Praetorians as Elite Bosses.

It may not be the most DPS scrapper out there but it will definately hold its own solo or on a team and i like the animations. Enjoy your new addition and have fun! :-D
If you like a lot of variety or like to watch the animation, by all means get more attacks, but with only 3 attacks(storm kick, Crippling axe kick, crane kick) you can handle any single target threat. Adding Dragons tail helps with AOE. After that, the other attacks will only be used because you feel like using them not because you need to use them. Unless you're seriously debuffed one of those 4 attacks will always be ready. Also, CAK can knock enemies out of the air like air superiority.


 

Posted

CAK has -fly
CK has a chance for knock.


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Originally Posted by Shades_McSpikey View Post
I stay away from eagles claw and cobra strike because with all set enchancments theres nothing I can't kill faster than it take to stun them. Typically those attacks are ineffective against EBs and AVs. Eagles Claw might seem awesome, and sure it looks good, but honestly for the animation time, its a pretty crappy attack. Thunder kick is nearly worthless.
I run with Regen as my secondary, I have no problem with EBs and can take many AVs solo. I reccommend Storm Kick, Crippling axe kick, and crane kick as attacks, as well as dragon's tail. You don't really need anything more than that.
Yeah, I noted that DPS numbers are better elsewhere. I'm goofy (for the Scrapper forum) in caring more about taking powers that I like and using them, rather than dialing everything to eleven and using a chain. At least I feel like I'm goofy, heh.

Still, there are plenty of bosses in the +40 game that I liked taking out of the equation for awhile. Gunslingers resist smashing like crazy, and do a lot of ranged damage (with high accuracy, if I'm not mistaken... it seems like they hit more often than other mobs, at least). I noticed a big different fighting them when I kept stunning them or knocking them down. And they're not the only bosses like that.


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Posted

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1) Is the all Smashing damage a serious problem at higher levels?
I haven't noticed much problem with Smashing damage all the way up to 50. Now I might be a bit bias because I have mostly been doing smashing damage on the way up with most of my toons, but I don't think it's any hinderance. In fact, I notice more often when smashing damage is not resisted than when it is.

The Touch of Death set is good for the set because of the proc and the melee defense set bonus. Getting a couple of these sets for your build will be very recommended if you are building for defense.

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2) Should I skip Crippling Axe Kick?
I've tried my toon before I got it and after I got. I only bothered getting it after the animation chances and the buffs were applied some issues ago. So far, I have not been that disappointed with the power, though the timing of its animation in both forms still feels "off."

If you are aiming for a high +recharge build, then get this power, since that is necessary for its high DPS chain. If you don't have a high +recharge build, then you can get away with skipping it since you are not necessarily aiming for a min/maxing build, and get something else that works for you. For the longest time, I got Thunder Kick instead of CAK, and I had no problems with it (was able to accomplish the RWZ Challenge and solo a pylon, though it did take a long time).

By the standards of his forum, most people are going to say that Thunder Kick and even Eagle's Claw are more skippable than CAK. But keep in mind that this is from a min/maxing perspective. Even a "subpar" MA build is still good and able to accomplish most of the normal content of the game, from soloing EBs and teaming up in TFs.


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3) What's the most synergistic secondary?
That will depend on your perspective. Some people like /Regen because higher +recharge will benefit both sets. Others might say /Dark Armor because of the stun potential, if that's your playstyle. Willpower and Invulnerability can be synergistic or not depending on playstyle; both sets work better with mobs surrounding the toon, but the single-target nature of MA means that the mobs won't die as fast, like with a Spines scrapper, but that you can allow some mobs to live in order to take advantage of the "mob-fueled" buffs against some single hard targets. The same could also be said for Shield's Against All Odds power.

Again, I think your playstyle will more determine which secondary might work the best for you.

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4) How well does MA fare against very hard targets?
Martial Arts fares damn good against hard targets. EBs are easily taken down with or without high +recharge. Only against things like pylons and AVs would you need the high +recharge build for a high DPS. Otherwise, the burst damage alone on MA makes it measure up against most normal targets.


 

Posted

I have found (and posted in the pylon thread) that I had higher dps with EC than with CAK, 166 to 161, with a high recharge buildbut that is just me. My recharge was high 117 without hasten.

One of the main drawbacks with MA if you don't take SD is that you only have one AoE, so if you like to participate in farms it can be a little boring.

Like others have said you should handle EB's with no problem. MA has a hard time with some of the tougher AV's (at least in my experience), but I can handle Chimera, Manticore, Mako, etc with not much problem.

I run MA/SR, get soft capped, run tough for some resistance and you should have a fine toon


American-Dynamo 50 MA/SR: Freedom
2 RWZ challenges, 4 AV's solo'ed no temps, no insp

 

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Originally Posted by American_Dynamo View Post
I have found (and posted in the pylon thread) that I had higher dps with EC than with CAK, 166 to 161, with a high recharge buildbut that is just me. My recharge was high 117 without hasten.
I'd like to see this attack chain. (I didn't see/couldn't find your post pylon post). From what I can tell as soon as you hit Eagle's Claw not only is that attack's DPS bad but more importantly you are delaying the use of Storm Kick.


Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

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Posted

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Originally Posted by Timeshadow View Post
H1) Is the all Smashing damage a serious problem at higher levels?
Not noticeably.

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2) Should I skip Crippling Axe Kick? I've read that the power's commonly skipped by MA users due to its quirks but I've never had the chance to try it out.
I find the hillbilly punch and the goose-step freakout to be undesirable to watch. I took in on a respec and don't use it cause it makes my toon looks stoogy.

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3) What's the most synergistic secondary? I've got a feeling that Dark Armor would be preferable for Oppressive Gloom but I'm not sure. My concept for this toon is a shapeshifter so I've got a lotta leeway in terms of what works.
I did Inv. Hurts a little on the endurace, but a solid combo. Some criticize as feeling like a tank, eh, maybe a little. [note: MA is not my favorite]

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4) How well does MA fare against very hard targets? By definition I'm a casual gamer. In CoX terms I'm a little bit more. I'm not looking to solo AVs or take on a pylon but I like knowing that if an Elite Boss pops up in a mission I don't necessarily need to scour the team window.
OK, I guess. You're a solid scrapper and all.


 

Posted

Thanks for all the replies so far guys. I've decided that I definitely wanna go for MA/WP. Now I'm torn between whether to roll the combo as a Scrapper or Stalker

What's really got me divided are the differences between the sets. Both the Scrapper and Stalker versions have things that I want. The Scrapper MA has Dragon's Tail, a nice AoE and source of soft control in an otherwise single target set. Stalker WP has a click self heal in Reconstruction and invisibility. But on the other hand the Scrapper version has Quick Recovery which would allow me to skip Stamina.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeshadow View Post
What's really got me divided are the differences between the sets. Both the Scrapper and Stalker versions have things that I want. The Scrapper MA has Dragon's Tail, a nice AoE and source of soft control in an otherwise single target set. Stalker WP has a click self heal in Reconstruction and invisibility. But on the other hand the Scrapper version has Quick Recovery which would allow me to skip Stamina.
Eh... I don't like MA at all, but WP is much better on scrappers IMO. Don't let the lack of a click heal in scrapper WP deceive you - Rise to the Challenge is much more potent. You won't be left wanting for click heals, trust me. As for the invisibility... You can take Super Speed on a scrapper and stuff a Celerity +stealth in it, and the only things that will see through it will be turrets, GMs and snipers. You won't have AS and Placate, of course, or the enhanced out-of-hide crit chance in large teams, but will be markedly more durable. IMO you should base your decision on that (and Dragon's Tail) instead, not on the lack of a clicky heal in scrapper WP.

And in regards to skipping Stamina: I think that's a bad decision during leveling, but a viable one in a final build (especially with scrappers, who can get Physical Perfection unlike brutes). While leveling, you really feel the difference between Stamina with Quick Recovery, and Quick Recovery only. Also, Health is actually a great power on /WP scrappers.


 

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Originally Posted by Exxar View Post
Eh... I don't like MA at all, but WP is much better on scrappers IMO. Don't let the lack of a click heal in scrapper WP deceive you - Rise to the Challenge is much more potent. You won't be left wanting for click heals, trust me. As for the invisibility... You can take Super Speed on a scrapper and stuff a Celerity +stealth in it, and the only things that will see through it will be turrets, GMs and snipers. You won't have AS and Placate, of course, or the enhanced out-of-hide crit chance in large teams, but will be markedly more durable. IMO you should base your decision on that (and Dragon's Tail) instead, not on the lack of a clicky heal in scrapper WP.

And in regards to skipping Stamina: I think that's a bad decision during leveling, but a viable one in a final build (especially with scrappers, who can get Physical Perfection unlike brutes). While leveling, you really feel the difference between Stamina with Quick Recovery, and Quick Recovery only. Also, Health is actually a great power on /WP scrappers.
I figured when it came down to it I'd get more durability outta the Scrapper version. I've used the SS+Celerity combo before so I'm aware of that avenue.

Does Willpower retain it's vaunted levels of survivability without plenty of RttC fuel? I can always adjust my tactics to compensate if it doesn't.

As for Quick Recovery vs. Stamina, Mids shows Quick Recovery as having a higher +Recovery value than Stamina outta the box. Am I mistaken on that?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeshadow View Post
Does Willpower retain it's vaunted levels of survivability without plenty of RttC fuel? I can always adjust my tactics to compensate if it doesn't.
Well, fighting a single AV sure isn't a forte of WP toons, but it isn't a problem either. And if you're just fighting spawns set for less players, there's no problem with that either since the purpose of RttC is to scale in exactly such circumstances. You'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Timeshadow View Post
As for Quick Recovery vs. Stamina, Mids shows Quick Recovery as having a higher +Recovery value than Stamina outta the box. Am I mistaken on that?
You're not. QR > Stamina.


 

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Originally Posted by Exxar View Post
Well, fighting a single AV sure isn't a forte of WP toons, but it isn't a problem either.
Heh. There was a period when, for some unfathomable reason, lots of threads showed up about making specialized AV fighting builds using Willpower "because it's the best." I kept mentioning that if you look at Willpower, it doesn't have any particular synergy against strong single targets. I don't know why people made some kind of big deal about it. At least one person agrees with me.


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I think it all started when someone came up with a theoretical Kat/WP build that Werner plugged into his survivability spreadsheet and came up with this really good number.

Then Iggy put it into practice and soloed an ITF and did other cool stuff. I'm pretty sure it was his original build that Werner analyzed, but I'm not 100%.

Quite a few FotM's come from someone posting a vid or screenshots of something cool or OP'ed.


 

Posted

Like all scrappers, any primary and secondary will work well together and be fun and should have not issues leveling as scrappers are probably the easiest AT to get to 50 with since you can solo and team easily. With MA, I would focus on the extra AOE attacks to supplement the lack of AOE that comes with MA. So Shield Defense is my top choice unless you are going to pvp (then regen). MA/Regen can actually pvp decently.

Simple way to take down bug mobs with MA/SD is to run into mob and let AAO damage buff get up there. Focus Chi and Dragon's tail followed by shield charge to same spot to keep damage buff high and then eagle claw the boss or finish who is standing. Two knockdown attacks will not KB, but will put everyone including the bosses on their butts.

Shield Charge does decent damage, so even with single target fights that are long, I may consider dropping a shield charge here and there. MA is really about single target, and I love the animations as well as the feel of the gameplay with it, but the lack of AOE can be bothersome at times. Of course, if you were about AOE only, I would go Fire/SD or Elec/SD. I created the former, and my Fire/SD easily wipes mobs faster, but also solos ritki pylons faster too.

Forget about the whole stun stacking thing with dark melee. It looks cool, but team with a half-decent troller and you don't need to focus on that. A scrapper's job is many, but damage is one of the primary roles, so just decide if you want to be a single target specialist or an AOE nightmare and go from there.

WP is always a good choice too for an all around balanced toon, but I just wanted a bit more AOE, so I had to go shield and that shield AOE is da shiznut son.


 

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Originally Posted by NightSable View Post
Forget about the whole stun stacking thing with dark melee. It looks cool, but team with a half-decent troller and you don't need to focus on that. A scrapper's job is many, but damage is one of the primary roles, so just decide if you want to be a single target specialist or an AOE nightmare and go from there.

WP is always a good choice too for an all around balanced toon, but I just wanted a bit more AOE, so I had to go shield and that shield AOE is da shiznut son.
You got it wrong with what i assume you mean as /dark armor and ma/

Its a helluva lot of work to get the build playable, its an extreme endo *****. But it shouldnt be overlooked either.

Death shrouds pbaoe damage helps with ma/ single target focus alot.
Most of the time, buy the time ive managed to defeat a boss, DS has killed the minions and almost all of the Lt's. Dragon tail to finish up the left overs.

And oppressive gloom's pbaoe stun is GREAT when used in conjunction with trollers aoe stuns.
Have the /da run in with OG runnin and let the troller follow up with their aoe stun.
And, while not all trollers have stuns most do. I think ice, ill, and mind trollers are the only ones without.

But I like being the only ma/da toon ive ever seen. So maybe you shouldnt run up this combo.

Edit...
Shield Charge is DEFINATELY getting changed, a red name has spoken on the matter. The only question is WHEN itll get its damage reduced.


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