Invul Passives vs Aid Self
By
Adept,
Posted on: 2010-05-14 14:03 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Well, here's one perspective on the issue:
My namesake is a level 41 Inv Tanker (so, a little bit different situation from yours). I'm not IOed out (mostly generic IOs, though I've got a few set pieces here and there; nothing major), I do have the auto powers. And I've never felt the need for more self-heals than just Dull Pain.
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Hell, my 50 Invuln Tanker doesn't even have the Elements/Energies passives. Defense + Dull Pain (+82% regen from set bonuses) suits me just fine.
EDIT: I guess that doesn't help you. I would go with the passives myself, in your situation. I can't see Aid Self helping you in an "oh crap" situation since it's interruptible ("oh crap, I need a heal! oh crap, my heal was interrupted! oh crap, I'm dead.")
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How much Defense are you rocking?
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Aid self wins easily when you're looking solely at survivability. The cost of endurance and animation time is significant, though. I've gone through several iterations of builds in my inv/ss tank using passives, aid self, or tough/weave, and I absolutely hated the performance of the builds that just took the RE passives. |
Originally Posted by Big_King
Specifically, which will increase my survivability more?
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Given sufficient use of IO set bonuses, the RE passives aren't too bad, but there's no contest when the comparison depends upon survivability only.
However, I would suggest freeing up another power and pursuing tough/weave -which don't have to be run simultaneously- for any build, IO'd out or not.
I love the invulnerability set and have tried nearly every combination of powers. The aid self is only useful if you also have phase shift. Then it is very nice. You can phase shift fairly often and heal yourself back to full strength. Otherwise the power is not worth getting. It is very hard to use during combat - even with two slotted interrupts. And it uses a lot of energy which isn't very helpful during combat.
I also don't choose either passive power (resist elements or resist energies). They just don't contribute that much. I would use the two extra powers on pool powers. Hasten, Hurdle/Health/Stamina, Boxing/Tough/Weave and Stealth/Invisibility/Phase Shift are all nice choices. Never thought much of stealth originally but it is wonderful while soloing to be invisible rather than fight through an entire map. And phase shift is a great power to have.
My two cents!!
Scott
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I have a lvl 50 dark melee/invuln scrapper. I took resist energies but didnt take resist elements and I have siphon life, which is an attack that heals me. During fights I am using siphon life liberally, even if I don't need it. This character also has tough and weave. Physical resist: ~67%, Energies resist: ~23%, Elements resist: ~13%, defense starts at 11% and goes up from there because of invincibility. And of course dark melee attacks have -tohit on them, so that is improving my defense against at least one target, more if I am spreading my attacks. This character is frankenslotted at the moment. |
Originally Posted by Big_King
I'm planning a build for my new Spines/Invul Scrapper and am conflicted on whether to take the passives, specifically Resist Elements/Energies (Scraps have to take RPD at level 1). I'm considering swapping them out for Aid Other/Aid Self. Here are my thoughts:
Benefits of Passives: 1. No endurance, no clicking. Provide consistent benefit against those damage types. 2. Require less slots to be effective. (I put 2 Res in passives, Int/2 Heal/End in Medicine.) 3. They fill specific gaps in my protection. Benefits of Medicine Pool: 1. I can take AS earlier to help in the late teens/early 20s. 2. It is up fairly often and can supplement Dull Pain as a heal. 3. A better "Oh Crap" button for alphas and damage spikes. Note that I'm open to other power suggestions, but the rest of my build is fine. I want these 2 power selections to focus on survivability. For those with some Invul experience, what are your thoughts on these options? Specifically, which will increase my survivability more? Thanks! Big King |
I did not take Resist elements because I don't think there is enough elemental damage in the game to make it worth a power slot, I use dull pain heavily when I do run across groups that use elemental damage heavily, ie Circle, but that is about it.
This character duos with an ice/fire blaster all the time and we run at +2/x6 mission difficulty. Today we was on Unai's first mission which sent us to Banished Pantheon dimension. The only time I went down was when we had at least 4 masks on us at once, specifically the Masks of Desire which debuffed my defense. The only times I felt I needed the heal from Siphon Life was when I was taking on multiple bosses. Dull pain was usually up often enough to hit whenever I took a hard alpha strike. For awhile I didnt run Tough, dropping my physical resist to ~50% and I noticed my health dropping and felt I needed the heal from siphon life more often, but never felt endangered by running without tough.
Overall this is a very durable character that can outtank Tanks. Hope that gives you some anecdotal information to work with.
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Particularly, because he's '1337'
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
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If you're running a mainly SO or common IO build then unquestionably Aid Self is a better choice. If you're working on set bonuses then things can get a bit trickier, say if you need them for mules for example. Overall unless you need the mules I'd say you'll get more mileage out of Aid Self.
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This will be an SO build, mostly used at lower levels. It will not have any sets and defense will only be derived from, Invincibility, Combat Jumping, and Tough Hide. I may fit in Maneuvers late.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
If you're running a mainly SO or common IO build then unquestionably Aid Self is a better choice. If you're working on set bonuses then things can get a bit trickier, say if you need them for mules for example. Overall unless you need the mules I'd say you'll get more mileage out of Aid Self.
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Thanks for the responses. I actually decided to use my 2nd build and try one of each option.
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Quote:
That's a good way to handle it.
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Originally Posted by Big_King
This will be an SO build, mostly used at lower levels. It will not have any sets and defense will only be derived from, Invincibility, Combat Jumping, and Tough Hide. I may fit in Maneuvers late.
Thanks for the responses. I actually decided to use my 2nd build and try one of each option. |
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Just my two cents: The passives offer some decent debuff resistances, namely def debuff in RPD (Which you'll have no matter what), end drain protection in REn, and slow protection in REl. If you plan on fighting low levels, then end drain won't be a major issue other than clockwork and some from freaks. But slows are prevalent at all levels, from Vahzilok darts to CoT spectrals using ice powers, not to mention Council/5th Column marksmen.
Do what works for you, but don't forget how much the passives can help you beyond just the additional damage resistance.
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Dude! That's too AOLeet for words!
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Well, here's one perspective on the issue:
My namesake is a level 41 Inv Tanker (so, a little bit different situation from yours). I'm not IOed out (mostly generic IOs, though I've got a few set pieces here and there; nothing major), I do have the auto powers. And I've never felt the need for more self-heals than just Dull Pain. |
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The only problem with Dull Pain is the 2-3 minute recharge. A Tanker mey only need healing that often, but a Scrapper (especially one not IOed out) only has 75% max S/L resists (likely around 70% with Tough) and moderate defense. That may not be enough to keep you going until Dull Pain recharges.
Aid Self is actually pretty easy to use in combat for a Scrapper if you don't have a DoT on you... unlike a tank you aren't the focus of all the bad guys' attention so you can jump back and hit Aid Self (especially with an interrupt reduction enhancer) while the guy you are fighting steps up to hit you. And you can also duck behind cover for a few seconds without worrying about losing aggro control and letting the squishies get clobbered. I would try to work in Resist Energies though.... energy is a common damage type.
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I have Aid Self and no passives on my Spines/Inv. It saved my life more times than I can count. And mixed with Dull Pain makes a great combination of survivability.
Just make sure you slot interrupt reduction enhancements in it or you will not be able to use it in combat.
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I'm planning a build for my new Spines/Invul Scrapper and am conflicted on whether to take the passives, specifically Resist Elements/Energies (Scraps have to take RPD at level 1). I'm considering swapping them out for Aid Other/Aid Self. Here are my thoughts:
Benefits of Passives:
1. No endurance, no clicking. Provide consistent benefit against those damage types.
2. Require less slots to be effective. (I put 2 Res in passives, Int/2 Heal/End in Medicine.)
3. They fill specific gaps in my protection.
Benefits of Medicine Pool:
1. I can take AS earlier to help in the late teens/early 20s.
2. It is up fairly often and can supplement Dull Pain as a heal.
3. A better "Oh Crap" button for alphas and damage spikes.
Note that I'm open to other power suggestions, but the rest of my build is fine. I want these 2 power selections to focus on survivability.
For those with some Invul experience, what are your thoughts on these options? Specifically, which will increase my survivability more?
Thanks!
Big King
Justice Superteamer
Current Project - Water Blast Superteam starting Friday, 7/20/2012.
Come out and join us Fri/Sun 8pm ET on the "Justice Superteamers" channel.
All players welcome!