Not that I know of, but it would be a challenge if someone does. There are a lot of variables at work.
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I was thinking more along the line of sustained DPS. So, I figure alot of might match up with Scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Not that I know of, but it would be a challenge if someone does. There are a lot of variables at work.
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However, there are some sets where this wouldn't be the case.
Claws and Dual Blades lack the +DMG attacks of Follow Up and Blinding Fient.
Dark Melee lacks Soul Drain.
I would THINK, throwing in PLACATE -> AS -> Return to DPS chain untill Placate and your AS are both recharged would be good DPS as well, but I am a bit uncertain on this.
I'd like to create a Stalker that can solo most AVs on their own. Doesn't need to be super easy. But you need to have a good amount of DPS to go with it all, and stand up to the AVs resists.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Stalkers put out the highest ST DPS by far. Love them!
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I don't recall ever hearing anyone say Stalkers put out the highest ST DPS. Highest burst, but never highest DPS.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Stalkers put out the highest ST DPS by far. Love them!
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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On a team, they do. They get more crit the more allies around them. 10% + 3% per ally in 30' , including pets (and Vines).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't recall ever hearing anyone say Stalkers put out the highest ST DPS. Highest burst, but never highest DPS.
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Except most Stalkers have little AoE (Elec being the only exception really), making them largely ineffective for anything except taking out single hard targets quickly.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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You'll want an /sr or /nin. probably a softcapped nin if you can do it with still achieving enough rech to run the best attack chain.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'd like to create a Stalker that can solo most AVs on their own. Doesn't need to be super easy. But you need to have a good amount of DPS to go with it all, and stand up to the AVs resists.
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DM is probably the best st primary, or katana w/o DA.
I think I made a dm/nin/mace that I figured would be good for ~225 dps in mids. Can't remember if that was accounting for the crit increase from the 3 spiders or not and I'd hope that didn't include the dps from the pets themselves as that would be sad, but it was a long time ago that I sat and made it.
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If I remember correctly, Spines still has it's AoE attack as well.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Except most Stalkers have little AoE (Elec being the only exception really), making them largely ineffective for anything except taking out single hard targets quickly.
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It is ok for AoE, but gives up quills the damage aura, which is pretty significant over time.
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Originally Posted by powerfuse1
If I remember correctly, Spines still has it's AoE attack as well.
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Ah, yeah, I tend to forget about Spines.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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And electric melee, which does better on a Stalker than any other melee AT.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Ah, yeah, I tend to forget about Spines.
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But how does AoE calculate in DPS discussions? Usually, those high DPS attack chains that brute and scraps talk about are all ST focused.
And it's not to say Stalkers don't get AoE either. Dual Blades, Electric Melee, Spines, Mace Mastery and Mu Mastery all have decent to great AoE that can crit with a 50% rate from hidden status.
With Elec for AoE is the single target damage still good enough to fulfill that "highest single target DPS" role?
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Probably not considering Elec melee isn't in the "highest ST DPS" role for *any* of the melee ATs.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
With Elec for AoE is the single target damage still good enough to fulfill that "highest single target DPS" role?
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Stalkers put out the highest ST DPS by far. Love them!
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Math or it didn't happen.
And I mean real math.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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It's probably worthwhile to note that any math included will probably only use the primary on an identical attack chain, and mention a higher critical percentage.|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
Math or it didn't happen.
And I mean real math. |
Because that math - which is "real math" - shows that using the same attack chain, on a team to boost the critical rate, a Stalker will outdamage a Scrapper. It's not hard, you just figure out the average critical rate, compare the base AT modifiers, and use that to figure a multiple of the base damage of the chain.
Giving the Scrapper a 10% critical rate on the base of 1.125 damage, you get a 1.2375 "final" AT multiplier; for a Stalker they have a base of 10% plus 3% per teammate within 30' and a base of 1.0. So, with 5 teammates (ie, team of 6), they end up with a 25% critical rate and a 1.25 "final" multiplier. 1.25 * (x damage) > 1.2375 * (x damage).
One of the things that approach doesn't account for is Against All Odds boosting the effectiveness of the Scrapper's attacks by a variable amount depending on enemy placement, nor does it account for procs in the attack chain, the guaranteed criticals from hidden status, any damage auras, throwing in Assassin's Strike for extra damage, or the fact that Scrappers aren't the single-target damage kings either (iirc that's an expensive Fire/Fire/Mace Dom build, but I didn't work the numbers out on that). But in "general speak" - comparing ATs to ATs and not builds to builds - Scrappers do more damage than Dominators, and not every Scrapper has a damage aura or Shield secondary. I personally still wouldn't say that Stalkers are single-target damage kings, but as a whole it can be shown that they do better as a whole against single targets than Scrappers on large teams. That just talks about average AT performance, though, and not situational exceptions (of which there are many).
Of course, if you want to account for everything in the game, you're welcome to do so. But you haven't shown any math - real or not - to indicate your position.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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For dps you can remove hide and as from the equation. They would only come into play once in a dps chain and if they came into play again it would lower dps. And yes certain fire dom and fire blaster builds hit the top of the charts for dps. And no stalker even on a team of 8 all in crit range aren't going to help that.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
There no reason to negate hide from the equation, when placate gives 100% chance for a crit on the next attack. so you start the chain with BU->AS->normal attack chain, and once your recharge is set where you can do one, or even two 'normal attack chains' for BU and AS to be up again, just throw in placate, and repeat. no different then using BU whenever its up, as the crit will increase overall DPS.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
There no reason to negate hide from the equation, when placate gives 100% chance for a crit on the next attack. so you start the chain with BU->AS->normal attack chain, and once your recharge is set where you can do one, or even two 'normal attack chains' for BU and AS to be up again, just throw in placate, and repeat. no different then using BU whenever its up, as the crit will increase overall DPS.
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No, it won't.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Explain. using math.
Cuz heres what i'm going at. Placate is a 1.5 seconds animation, which gives your next attack, a 100% to crit, which depending on the attack, could be as high as 250% damage (AS crits that high technically) So the DPA of placate is the % of damage its increasing the next attack by, which is actually pretty awesome, considering placate animates so quickly.
Treat placate like you would Build up, and its a pure DPS increase. Plain and simple.
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Lol, coming from the poster that said "Math or it didn't happen."|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
No, it won't.
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Hypocrisy much?
Placate will increase your dps if the attack you are using if right before has a longer cast time than placate and if the attack you are doubling has better dpa than the one(s) you are holding off of. Which means only these attacks if the set is using an ideal attack chain:
BS - disembowel
Claws - none
Dark - midnite grasp
Dual Blades - I know almost nothing about this set
Elec melee - none
EM - None
MA - Crane
Ninja Blade - none
Spines - Impale
If you plan to use AS as part of your dps attack chain you can effectively add placate to the cast time to get the DPA to see if it is worthwhile for your particular set.
Placate 1.716
AS 3.168
=4.884
Damage = 389.28
DPA =79.7
Which amounts to one of the highest DPA attacks available and useful to every attack set. However, it is worth noting that in a dps scenario you shouldn't use BU before it, but rather for all your other faster attacks. Also assuming that you never get interrupted in the use of AS after a placate in mid fight, which is probably not very realistic.
Thanks for the info Frost!
Out of curiosity, how many targets would it take to make placate worth using before ripper on a spines?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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As opposed to spineburst or throw spines? I think it will always be better in an aoe scenario that spineburst and worse than throw spines if you are going to hit 5 or more with throw spines (assuming you are hitting 5 with ripper).|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Out of curiosity, how many targets would it take to make placate worth using before ripper on a spines?
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That makes some steep assumptions though because it is a lot easier to predict hitting multiple targets with burst and throw than it is with ripper. It is pretty close between ripper and throw spines though. If you can hit one more target with TS then it should be prioritized over ripper, which in actual play is pretty easy to do and very common.
Unless you mean as opposed to using a single target attack? That I can't really answer other than to simply state it will depend on whether you want a single target dead quickly or a bunch of the group hurt. I will say that on spines you ideally want to always either be using AS or throw spines when you are going to be hiding/placating. The other single target attacks aren't really worth doubling and TS can hit 10 targets quite easily vs ripper being difficult to hit 3+ with.
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Hmm, ok good to know.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
As opposed to spineburst or throw spines? I think it will always be better in an aoe scenario that spineburst and worse than throw spines if you are going to hit 5 or more with throw spines (assuming you are hitting 5 with ripper).
That makes some steep assumptions though because it is a lot easier to predict hitting multiple targets with burst and throw than it is with ripper. It is pretty close between ripper and throw spines though. If you can hit one more target with TS then it should be prioritized over ripper, which in actual play is pretty easy to do and very common. Unless you mean as opposed to using a single target attack? That I can't really answer other than to simply state it will depend on whether you want a single target dead quickly or a bunch of the group hurt. I will say that on spines you ideally want to always either be using AS or throw spines when you are going to be hiding/placating. The other single target attacks aren't really worth doubling and TS can hit 10 targets quite easily vs ripper being difficult to hit 3+ with. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
...went searching, went scouring through the threads, but couldn't find it...
Has anyone made a list of the Max DPS a Stalker can get with the various sets?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection