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Me 3!!!|
Originally Posted by Dead_West
Agreed!
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I actually put a few dam/range HO's into my snipe, and I loooooooooooooove it. I just still wish it did more damage. I want it to be able to take out Lt's in 1 shots. Not bosses, but Lt's. Think of it as a kick-*** opening act for the soon to ensue chaos. :^) Hell, up the interruptable time on it (maybe two-fold) so you can REALLY only use it proactively, but dramatically up that damage. That makes it worth it, and would be a serious game changer for this set (solo or teamed-think 'God' from Navy Seals, up high raining death from above in support of his team). Pure win.
Basically too many 50's to count, but I'm generally a brute/scrapper/tank kind of guy.
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That's because Fire cannot deal more AOE damage than AR in less time. Assault Rifle's AOE trumps Fire's easily.|
Originally Posted by Sunstormer
One point I would like to raise though, if theres nothing wrong with AR then how come fire can deal more single target AND Area damage than AR could ever hope to achieve in half the time to animate.
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On paper, Fire Blast can produce approximately 314 points of damage (unenhanced) in 5.7 seconds with Breath, Ball and Rain. In reality, Rain will never do its full damage due to mob scatter, and most Fire blasters skip Rain because of that. So, Fire's effective damage is lower than its max potential.
Assault Rifle can produce approximately 357 points of damage (unenhanced) in about 7.2 seconds with Flamethrower, Full-Auto and Buckshot.
Assault Rifle's AOE ability is just peachy. It, along with Archery, are the best AOE blaster sets, hands down. I'm willing to put up with slightly substandard single target damage in exchange for that.
Buckshot/Ignite/Flamethrower are (arguably) the only problem children of the set, everything else is aesthetics.
Also pre-I13 Sniper AR's would wreck the **** out of MMs.
The problem is its not just pvp but in pve theres issues too though.
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No there aren't. I haven't had any problem with AR. I think that people just need to learn how to use it effectively.
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Originally Posted by Sunstormer
The problem is its not just pvp but in pve theres issues too though.
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Just because you post the same thing over and over it doesnt make it anymore true. Its kinda funny that theres so many players who posted on this thread saying otherwise yet you still continue to post.|
Originally Posted by MondoCool
No there aren't. I haven't had any problem with AR. I think that people just need to learn how to use it effectively.
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I question whether you actually play AR or are just trolling as a form of attention seeking... Seen as this is the 3rd time on the suggestions board I've seen you telling people there suggestions are bad without any reason behind it, I'm guessing its a clear troll.
If your trying to prove otherwise, please post something to argue your point other than 'you arent playing it right'.
If there was anything I could modify for AR it would be the last three powers.
Flamethrower would be great if it had a mini Melt armor effect. -7.5% res and -5% def for like 8s would be great.
An improvment to Ignite would be to add a delayed knockdown much like a delayed power crash but on the enemy. A sort of stop drop and roll dick roll type deal. The ideal would be a variable delay if possible. This would have some enemies panic and fall down without running out of the patch, and some would run out first before "rolling".
For Full Auto I would say just cut the activation in half and call it a day, but that might not be feasible.
Just another idea to toss into the mix.
GL all and have fun 
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
How about adding a chance for fear or hold onto Flamethrower? I mean hey, you're on fire - that's gotta itch a little.
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A lot of people saying something doesn't suddenly make it correct, either.|
Originally Posted by Sunstormer
Just because you post the same thing over and over it doesnt make it anymore true. Its kinda funny that theres so many players who posted on this thread saying otherwise yet you still continue to post.
I question whether you actually play AR or are just trolling as a form of attention seeking... Seen as this is the 3rd time on the suggestions board I've seen you telling people there suggestions are bad without any reason behind it, I'm guessing its a clear troll. If your trying to prove otherwise, please post something to argue your point other than 'you arent playing it right'. |
As it stands, AR is an extremely good AE set. It's when paired with /dev that most people have issues with it, and that's more AR/Dev being weak on synergy than because AR has problems.
My experience with AR is that it's quite devastating, and not in need of serious balancing time.
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Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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/signed|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Assault Rifle could really do with an accuracy bonus, much like Pistols has. If you think about it, an assault rifle would be MORE accurate than twin pistols, as you only have one weapon to aim.
Full Auto works great as it is. No, seriously; Build Up + Full Auto = anything white is dead. End of. Heck, if its a MINION its pretty much dead, unless its purple conning, and thats your own fault. Flamethrower needs front loaded damage. It really does. It has a horrendous endurance cost, takes a fairly long time to animate, and is only DoT. Its too spread out, to the point of nearly being anaemic. If theres ever a power I skip on AR, its flamethrower, due to the end cost and time to animate. Beanbag, IMO, works fine as it is. But anything to bump AR a little bit would be nice, and I think an Acc bonus would do nicely. |
These are all great and well put suggestions. Using a single rifle should be innately more accurate than using two pistols, because pistols are innately less accurate, especially at range, and using two is IRL unpractical as accuracy gets even worse as you loose the ability to aim right unless you take turns with the guns.
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What's /Dev?|
Originally Posted by Dalantia
It's when paired with /dev that most people have issues with it, and that's more AR/Dev being weak on synergy than because AR has problems.
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I play an AR Corruptor, and his performance is pretty blah. Of course, I'll admit it doesn't help that I paired it with a secondary with a few problems of its own (Sonic).
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In my experience, most of AR seems pretty good. The Beanbag speed-up helped its utility a lot. The only odd child to me is 'ignite." It's an attack power that actively discourages enemies from getting damaged by itself. Immobilizes make it good, but without those it's very limited in usability. It's also pretty small.
I know it's a longshot, but keeping the cttage rule in mind, what if burn was a low damage +terrorize patch, targeted. The patch does its thing, but the target is given a medium/high damage over time to self power, which attempts to duplicate itself onto nearby mobs for a certain period. This power also has a full-body fiery aura attached. Yes, I'm talking about an 'ignite patch' that literally sets a foe on fire. (That is drenching a foe in burning propellant.) The 'contagious,' nature of the fire mean that once you light an enemy on fire, they run crazed and ablazed, and any foes they brush against also catch fire. It's then an odd sort of AoE, where it isn't an immediate area attack, but can become so when the foe comes near other foes.
Note: there would be a limit to the number of transfers of the fire, so that it would not violate target limits indirectly.
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/dev is blaster secondary, devices |
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
What's /Dev?
I play an AR Corruptor, and his performance is pretty blah. Of course, I'll admit it doesn't help that I paired it with a secondary with a few problems of its own (Sonic). |
Sonic wouldnt be the smartest choice to be honest since it has a single target -res debuff and a shield -res debuff, meaning if your solo or you play with a ranged friend you have only the single targets to rely on.
From my experience on corr, the best ones to pair with tend to be either kinetics, ice or storm. All of which have ranged debuffs. Ice and storm in particular also have -speed powers which will stop the mob scattering when you fire off powers
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Originally Posted by Seldom
In my experience, most of AR seems pretty good. The Beanbag speed-up helped its utility a lot. The only odd child to me is 'ignite." It's an attack power that actively discourages enemies from getting damaged by itself. Immobilizes make it good, but without those it's very limited in usability. It's also pretty small.
I know it's a longshot, but keeping the cttage rule in mind, what if burn was a low damage +terrorize patch, targeted. The patch does its thing, but the target is given a medium/high damage over time to self power, which attempts to duplicate itself onto nearby mobs for a certain period. This power also has a full-body fiery aura attached. Yes, I'm talking about an 'ignite patch' that literally sets a foe on fire. (That is drenching a foe in burning propellant.) The 'contagious,' nature of the fire mean that once you light an enemy on fire, they run crazed and ablazed, and any foes they brush against also catch fire. It's then an odd sort of AoE, where it isn't an immediate area attack, but can become so when the foe comes near other foes. Note: there would be a limit to the number of transfers of the fire, so that it would not violate target limits indirectly. |
I really like that idea, sort of like a ranged chain induction type power, which would also help with mitigation since beanbag is single target and will give you time to animate full auto. Buckshot and m30 grenade arent what I would call proper mitigation since there only knockback which doesnt give you long enough to animate full auto. You set a guy on fire he isnt going be stood around thinking 'wtf is that guy doing next?' hes going to be running around like crazy trying to put himself out before he attempts to kick your butt.
Excellent suggestion!
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I haven't noticed the end on FT being outrageous, but I'll take your word for it. I don't mind the DoT either, or the animation time, so my affection for the power is obviously atypical. =P|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If they cut the endurance cost of flamethrower (massivlely disproportionate for its damage) and/or front loaded the damage, that would solve a chunk of the problem.
And probably cut the endurance cost of M30. That thing costs and awful lot for what it does. |
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Originally Posted by Dead_West
No matter what they do: DO NOT TAKE MY BEANBAG.
I am concerned at the amount of people who consider it a useless power... although so did I for 4 years. |
It's a fantastic power I ignored for a very long time, kinda like the way my kat/regen scrapper ignored Divine Avalanche until after he hit 50. =/
It doesn't *sound* sexy compared to most of the other stuff in the set, but once you use it you wonder how you ever got along without it.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid
It's a Sniper Rifle in a super hero/comic book game. Let us USE it like one, and actually hit someone at serious range. Make AR the "Sniper Set".
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
That's because Fire cannot deal more AOE damage than AR in less time. Assault Rifle's AOE trumps Fire's easily.
On paper, Fire Blast can produce approximately 314 points of damage (unenhanced) in 5.7 seconds with Breath, Ball and Rain. In reality, Rain will never do its full damage due to mob scatter, and most Fire blasters skip Rain because of that. So, Fire's effective damage is lower than its max potential. |
I'm not a numbers guy, but where the rubber meets the road my fire/ice blows the doors off my ar/dev, and they're both about evenly IO'ed out at this point.
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| Assault Rifle's AOE ability is just peachy. |
I still wish it had better synergy with /dev.
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Forwarded the general consensus of this thread to castle and positron and also linked them both to this thread. Hopefully we might see some changes soon.
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Doubtful. They already buffed AR when they lowered the animation times. I don't realistically see any more changes happening.
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Originally Posted by Sunstormer
Forwarded the general consensus of this thread to castle and positron and also linked them both to this thread. Hopefully we might see some changes soon.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Assault Rifle could really do with an accuracy bonus, much like Pistols has.
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| Burst - Ranged, Moderate DoT(Lethal), Foe -DEF |
If I were going to change AR it would be in this fashion:
Layered damage cones. What does that mean?
Take Buckshot for instance. It deals
0.91 DS in a 30 degree arc. Cool keep that.
I'd then layer a second cone with it that is 20 degrees that deals 0.1 DS
I'd then layer a third cone with it that is 10 degrees that deals 0.1 DS
I'd then layer a forth cone with it that is 5 degrees that deals 0.2 DS
The result is that it would deal:
1.31 DS over 5 degrees (81.95 damage)
1.11 DS over 10 degrees (69.44 damage)
1.01 DS over 20 degrees (63.18 damage)
0.91 DS over 30 degrees (56.93)
I'd do a similar thing to Flamethrower and I'd widen the arc of fullauto a bit (up to 30 degrees) and then do the same thing.
At the very edges all the cones would still do as much damage as they do now and as they get closer and closer to being single target they do concentrated damage.
Why? cause it can be done and it would make AR pretty unique without being OP'd and would resolve some or all of the ST damage issues, without negatively impacting any of the AOE, or recreating the purpose of any of the attacks. Plus the set already does a lot of little dots, so the fact that the layered cones would be a bunch of small orange numbers on top of what already exists is no biggy.
That would be ideal if it didnt sound so complicated lol
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Are you sure it can be done? I haven't seen precedent for that anywhere in the game. I guess I've seen AoE range be variable in Lightning Rod, and probably with some kind of dirty hack that shows up neither in Real Numbers nor Red Tomax's City of Data, but I've never seen arc angle as variable anywhere in the game.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Why? cause it can be done and it would make AR pretty unique without being OP'd and would resolve some or all of the ST damage issues, without negatively impacting any of the AOE, or recreating the purpose of any of the attacks. Plus the set already does a lot of little dots, so the fact that the layered cones would be a bunch of small orange numbers on top of what already exists is no biggy.
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If that's even possible, I'd say it's an interesting solution, but it has the potential of making Assault Rifle really overpowered by giving it something like five single-target attacks AND AoE attached to them. Are you sure that kind of setup won't make it exceed pretty much all other Blast sets?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Flamethrower's cost is about the highest I've seen on a regular Blast power, but its efficiency per target is actually only slightly lower than average at around 5.064, whereas say, Frost Breath is 5.77 and Empty Clips is 5.586. Considering this is one of the hardest-hitting cones, the price is justified, it's just that its damage comes in too slow.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I haven't noticed the end on FT being outrageous, but I'll take your word for it. I don't mind the DoT either, or the animation time, so my affection for the power is obviously atypical. =P
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*note*
As with most cones, Flamethrower becomes more efficient than single-target powers when you hit two and a half (essentially three) targets or more, meaning it's actually saving you endurance to use it as opposed to using a single-target attack on each of the three or more targets. It's not broken numbers-wise, it's just really uncomfortable to use since you often end up killing things before they burn, or they kill you before they suffer full damage.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hmm... that's an interesting effect. It's close to what I suggested a couple of pages back, but definitely more interesting. I'm not sure if it could work, though, but since you seem to be going off Chain Induction, let's dissect that and see if we can't replicate its functionality.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
I know it's a longshot, but keeping the cttage rule in mind, what if burn was a low damage +terrorize patch, targeted. The patch does its thing, but the target is given a medium/high damage over time to self power, which attempts to duplicate itself onto nearby mobs for a certain period. This power also has a full-body fiery aura attached. Yes, I'm talking about an 'ignite patch' that literally sets a foe on fire. (That is drenching a foe in burning propellant.) The 'contagious,' nature of the fire mean that once you light an enemy on fire, they run crazed and ablazed, and any foes they brush against also catch fire. It's then an odd sort of AoE, where it isn't an immediate area attack, but can become so when the foe comes near other foes.
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Chain induction works by hitting a target, dealing damage, setting the target as immune from getting hit by Chain Induction for the next three seconds then summoning a pseudopet. As soon as the pseudo-pet becomes aware, it hits another target within range that isn't set to immune, deals damage, sets THAT as immune to Chain Induction and summons a second pseudopet. The second does the same and summons a third, the third does the same and summons a fourth and the fourth ends the chain by just zapping a target that isn't immune and dealing damage. Basically, you have a chain of pets summoning each other, but because it's a chain with a rigid linear progression from one jump to the next, it's not too complicated.
So how would this work with your version of Ignite? Well, the way I figure, it would be something like this. You ignite a target for full damage, and also cause the power to summon pseudopets at the target once every second for four seconds. Each time a pseudopet is summoned, it hits all targets in AoE ranged, inflicting a fire DoT for 2 seconds, making them immune to Igniting and causing them to spawn two pseudopets, one when they are first hit and another a second later. Each of those pseudo-pets then hits all targets in range which aren't already immune (i.e. on fire) and gives them a DoT effect without spawning pseudopets.
I guess you can look at it as tracing through a graph. Where Chain Induction is linear tracing, your version of Ignite would be recursive tracing, where each stop would catch all nodes around it not already caught and expand in all directions. Chain Induction is limited to five steps (one hit + four pets), but at one target per step, it's limited to five targets. Your Ignite would be limited to only three steps (initial hit, main pseudopet, secondary pseudopet) but because they are AoE, you could potentially hit a LOT of people with it. It depends on enemy density, but even if you cap each pseudopet at a Melee Cone level of 5 targets, you can still balloon out into a LOT of enemies, not to mention giving it a much broader radius.
Chain Induction has a written range of 7 feet, but with each subsequent jump having a range of 10 feet, your bolt can theoretically travel 37 feet away from you, given a specific enemy arrangement. Current Ignite has an AoE range of 4 feet. Even if we keep it at that, your first pet will hit 4 feet out and your second 4 feet out from that, for a total of a theoretical 8 feet across, quadrupling its area of coverage, and I suspect AoE ranges would need to be increased further still to ensure most ticks don't just fizzle.
In general, I like the idea, but I worry about how complicated it would be to make, how reliable it would be to use and, more than anything else, how resource-intensive it would be to run by the server, as you're talking of recursively-generated pets that could really mount up. If this is possible, it would be cool, but I would still vote for my own less interesting idea of turning Ignite from a patch on the ground into a power that gives an enemy a damage aura hurting him and those immediately around him. It would give Ignite the ability to be used as a third single-target attack while still retaining some of its old AoE use, even though its AoE use right now is somewhere between bugger and all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It's only complicated in the sense that explaining how something like Rain of Arrows works is complicated. Or complicated in the sense that fully understanding the final tohit chance is complicated. For the end user you just point and click and things die. How the power is resolved doesn't really matter to most users.|
Originally Posted by Sunstormer
That would be ideal if it didnt sound so complicated lol
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Are you sure it can be done? I haven't seen precedent for that anywhere in the game. I guess I've seen AoE range be variable in Lightning Rod, and probably with some kind of dirty hack that shows up neither in Real Numbers nor Red Tomax's City of Data, but I've never seen arc angle as variable anywhere in the game.
If that's even possible, I'd say it's an interesting solution, but it has the potential of making Assault Rifle really overpowered by giving it something like five single-target attacks AND AoE attached to them. Are you sure that kind of setup won't make it exceed pretty much all other Blast sets? |
I don't believe it would make the rifle overpowered, but of course the numbers would need close examination, but even if you were to use buckshot as shown in the previous post as a purely single target attack it would still deal less damage than a standard 8 second attack and cost more endurance. The focus of the set would still be aoe damage, but as a by product the things you happen to be focusing on would die quicker. The set would still be near the bottom for st dps if you were only killing single targets, but would deal pretty good st dps while also doing very strong aoe at the same time.
I dunno, I'm just a fan of unique solutions rather than just standardizing all attack sets and/or a flat damage boost to things. To me that is unfun and not very creative. Honestly, I only came up with this idea while reading the first few pages of this thread, but it just made sense to me. Things in the actual focus of a buckshot blast, or flamethrower, or minigun volley (or w/e fullauto is supposed to be) take a lot more damage than things on the outer edges of the spread.
AR's snipe should be the longest ranged snipe in the game. Long enough that you have time to do other things before you come under attack for having shot someone with it.
It's a Sniper Rifle in a super hero/comic book game. Let us USE it like one, and actually hit someone at serious range. Make AR the "Sniper Set".
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