Buff Assault Rifle
argeed.. tho i dont think they will add a aim power as that means getting rid of a power- beanbag if they have to cos not many AR users use it.
Maybe change a power to give a slight ToHit buff as its used like in Dual Blades
Assault Rifle could really do with an accuracy bonus, much like Pistols has. If you think about it, an assault rifle would be MORE accurate than twin pistols, as you only have one weapon to aim.
Full Auto works great as it is. No, seriously; Build Up + Full Auto = anything white is dead. End of. Heck, if its a MINION its pretty much dead, unless its purple conning, and thats your own fault.
Flamethrower needs front loaded damage. It really does. It has a horrendous endurance cost, takes a fairly long time to animate, and is only DoT. Its too spread out, to the point of nearly being anaemic. If theres ever a power I skip on AR, its flamethrower, due to the end cost and time to animate.
Beanbag, IMO, works fine as it is.
But anything to bump AR a little bit would be nice, and I think an Acc bonus would do nicely.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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The only change I can imagine giving it is putting Flamethrower and Ignite together so it works like the Assault Bot incendiary missiles. Cone AoE, plus puts a fire patch down under each enemy hit, then put in an AR themed Buildup power where Ignite was. I'm imagining something akin to Fiery Embrace with a 100-150% Lethal damage boost only, maybe some +recharge aswell for the duration.. And call it Reload.
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To me, the Arachnos Soldier set is a bit more 'Assault Rifle' than Assault Rifle.
Burst, yes, that's AR'ish to me. Slug? Not so much. Buckshot? Not so much. M30 Grenade, yes, Beanbag... sort of. Sniper Rifle? Sort of... Flamethrower? No. Ignite? No. Full Auto, yes. Especially now we're not constrained to the Frankengun. I think the whole set could do with a rework. I'm certainly planning to delete my AR/Dev, AR's just... not that fun, same goes for Dev. I mean, Time Bomb? Seriously?
Anyway, I'd rather see something more like:
Single Shot (Ranged, Single Target)
Burst (Ranged, Several Tick Single Target)
Heavy Burst (Cone, Several Tick)
M30 Grenade (Ranged AoE)
Beanbag -OR- Tracer Fire (Ranged, Single Target, -Def -Stealth)
Sniper Shot -OR- D.U. Rounds (Ranged, Single Target, -Res, -ToHit)
Covering Fire (Ranged AoE, Minor Damage, +Ranged Defense)
Tracer Fire -OR- Flashbang Grenade (Ranged AoE, Stun, -ToHit)
Full Auto (Cone, several tick, crit chance.)
That's just me though.
"Assault Rifle" is the renamed set which used to be Heavy Weapons in Beta, or so I hear. Looking at the set, you can see how it really WAS different weapons, not just one omnigun, but I hear redraw killed that idea. As it stands, Assault Rifle will not be changing to be JUST a rifle, as that basically kicks those of us who took it for the omnigun aspect in the goolies. Just like the argument went for pistols, an entire set that consists primarily of standing and firing a rifle in different-length bursts is just not interesting.
Within the context of what the set IS vs. what it's CALLED, there are really very few ways to fix Assault Rifle without having Build Up suddenly start building up a cottage, so to speak. To my eyes, by far the BIGGEST problem with Assault Rifle is the lack of concentrated single-target damage which, when combined with the kind of Lethal resistance robots have in the later levels, makes certain fights EVIL to fight. The set already has more than enough AoE, some of which isn't actually very good, so trading one for a single-target attack really isn't something I'd be sad to see.
My original idea from way back in the day was doing this to Buckshot. Think back to most FPS games you've played (if you've played any) and you'll realise that shotguns are never multi-target weapons. In fact, if you're far enough to hit multiple targets, you'll be doing dick for damage. Shotguns, as used in FPS games, tend to be ideal for delivering MASSIVE amounts of damage to a single big enemy from up close. Hence, I'd easily see Buckshot replaced with a high-damage single-target power.
Alternatively, I could easily see this happening to Ignite. Instead of igniting the ground, the power would ignite... ONE ENEMY! If we really must retain the effect, then have that enemy burn foes around him, I honestly don't care. The point is that transforming Ignite, at this point a power of highly questionable use for the trouble it comes with, into a guaranteed-damage, reliable power would to a LOT to boost the set's single-target damage while doing little to diminish its AoE. I mean, seriously. How many people use Ignite for AoE?
If we want to keep away from the cottage rule, then we'll have to WILL the set another single-target attack, for which I'd suggest Buckshot. If we can't get it into a single-target attack, can we at least balance its cost around that of a single-target attack? It would help.
Finally, Full Auto. People swear by this, but as far as mininukes go, it's not terribly impressive. For one, Assault Rifle lacks Aim and, if you should choose Devices like I did, you will lack Build Up, as well. This puts the power really under the gun. Additionally, the power isn't actually all that powerful. It does 17 ticks of 10.14 damage at level 50, or a total of 172.38, whereas its nearest contender - Rain of Arrows - does three ticks of 75.07 damage, or a total of 225.21. Rain of Arrows can also be cast at a greater distance, has a much larger land area coverage (1117 square feet for FA to 1964 square feet for RoA), can be cast without line of sight and causes aggro only AFTER the power fully animates. And it's not fair to say that AR makes up for this weaker mini-nuke with greater strength in the rest of the set, because it really doesn't.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If they didn't force us to take the damn spider guns, I could just roll a SoA and run him through via Praetoria when GR comes out...
As it is, thats not an option, sadly. As I like the Arachnos gun set MUCH better than AR. Yes, even without the mini-nuke. Full Auto is cool, but it kinda just tips the balance for a set with too much Lethal damage that seems to punish you at later levels without some -res around.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I would like to point you guys in the direction of my old thread here...
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=217886
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If they didn't force us to take the damn spider guns, I could just roll a SoA and run him through via Praetoria when GR comes out...
As it is, thats not an option, sadly. As I like the Arachnos gun set MUCH better than AR. Yes, even without the mini-nuke. Full Auto is cool, but it kinda just tips the balance for a set with too much Lethal damage that seems to punish you at later levels without some -res around. |
I think that will always be the way it is though regardless of changes though since VEAT's have resists and ranged attacks earlier than other ranged sets get resists which makes them easier to play. The focus of other sets should be to offer more damage in return for this or at least put them in line with other sets and make them easier to use.
Also pointed castle in the direction of this thread, I'm hoping he will at least look at it because theres been a fair amount of these posts about now and its not very often someone disagrees that the set is low of damage.
It seems a lot of people think of Ignite overall as the biggest problem with the set, flamethrower though comes a close second followed by full auto. Funnily enough the 3 final powers in the set are the ones causing the issues.
Ignite seems to be the easiest to rework though out of the 3. The only issue I'd have with the suggestions above about having a fire effect around any mob you hit is we would lose our door blocking ability. Thats why I suggested the devs meld together flamethrower and ignite into one power, so you have a bit of upfront damage and still keep the DoT. This would also free up the slot for an aim style power or something similar which the set does need.
I do think this alone is enough to make the set viable, since full auto is a big pain to use due to animation but its also very fast recharging. Whilst its a lot slower than rain of arrows to animate I really cant see another way of getting the animation to fire loads of bullets without taking ages anyway.
If we want to keep away from the cottage rule, then we'll have to WILL the set another single-target attack, for which I'd suggest Buckshot. If we can't get it into a single-target attack, can we at least balance its cost around that of a single-target attack? It would help.
Finally, Full Auto. People swear by this, but as far as mininukes go, it's not terribly impressive. For one, Assault Rifle lacks Aim and, if you should choose Devices like I did, you will lack Build Up, as well. This puts the power really under the gun. Additionally, the power isn't actually all that powerful. It does 17 ticks of 10.14 damage at level 50, or a total of 172.38, whereas its nearest contender - Rain of Arrows - does three ticks of 75.07 damage, or a total of 225.21. Rain of Arrows can also be cast at a greater distance, has a much larger land area coverage (1117 square feet for FA to 1964 square feet for RoA), can be cast without line of sight and causes aggro only AFTER the power fully animates. And it's not fair to say that AR makes up for this weaker mini-nuke with greater strength in the rest of the set, because it really doesn't. |
Full Auto needs to be rebalanced around its animation time, preferably with a damage buff rather than anything exotic like Hail of Bullets.
Flamethrower needs front-loaded damage and possibly a bit of an endurance discount. It uses more end than Total Focus for crying out loud (yeah, I know, ST versus AoE, but still). It uses more endurance than Full Auto!
I'm not really sure what I'd do with Ignite, if anything. IMO, it's one of the few powers in the set that doesn't explicitly have anything wrong with it. The fact that it's largely only useful when paired with an immobilize is slightly irksome. Makes it a lot less useful for a number of Corruptor builds, at least. Probably just increase it's radius a bit, or go with what you suggest, Sam, with a twist: You Ignite a single enemy, which then also leaves a burn patch behind. ST powerful attack + patch summon. Cottage Rule defeated.
If we're really fishing for tune-ups, M30 Grenade could stand to not be Smashing/Lethal damage. But it's less of a big deal than the other complaints. (Also, that's odd. Despite being identical in every way other than accuracy, Explosive Arrow gives a higher Defiance bonus than M30 Grenade..)
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So to summerize, people tend to think either Buckshot, Ignite or Flamethrower needs biggest changes with full auto not so important because its easier to use?
I agree single target damage is the biggest issue with assault rifle, area attack wise its not too bad but still not as good as some particularly due to a lack of aim, which strangely enough would suit a gun type charecter since they are constantly aiming anyway lol.
Assault Rifle could really do with an accuracy bonus, much like Pistols has. If you think about it, an assault rifle would be MORE accurate than twin pistols, as you only have one weapon to aim. |
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I keep trying to think of ways to improve AR single-target damage, and I still don't know what to do without stepping on the Cottage rule. Tweaking Buckshot would help, but not TOO much, as it's still Lethal damage and not too much of it. It'd make endurance a bit better and damage slightly more, but I feel nothing short of giving another single-target attack equivalent will help.
Hmm...
How's about this change to Ignite: Instead of being a ranged copy of Burn, why not have it set people who walk through it on fire? say you ignite the ground under an enemy. Instead of doing continuous damage for everyone in the patch, it instead applies a DoT effect that lasts even if you leave the patch. Have it reapply over and over again so that the patch WILL burn you if you stand in it, (but probably for less), and will still burn you for a few seconds after you leave it. That would give the power greater usability without convulted tricks, possibly at the cost of its efficiency WITH those convulted tricks.
Or go ahead and make it a targeted AoE. Have it set one enemy on fire and put the Ignite aura on HIM, so he'll be taking damage AND burning enemies around him as he moves about. How does that sound?
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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So to summerize, people tend to think either Buckshot, Ignite or Flamethrower needs biggest changes with full auto not so important because its easier to use?
I agree single target damage is the biggest issue with assault rifle, area attack wise its not too bad but still not as good as some particularly due to a lack of aim, which strangely enough would suit a gun type charecter since they are constantly aiming anyway lol. |
Rain of Arrows? Not so much. I have yet to see an archer that can fire 80 arrows at once.
Hail of Bullets? Actually, I have to admit this one is kinda realistic too, especially with the reported accuracy problems. Spin around like a damn fool firing a couple pistols and see how accurate YOU are The defense makes sense too, if someone is doing that you're going to be more worried about getting the hell out of the way than you are about shooting back.
The point of an Assault Rifle in the real world isn't to hit a single target, that's what sniper rifles are for. An assault rifle is intended to send a whole lot of bullets in someone's general direction at once. Accuracy by volume as it were, you shoot enough bullets at something you're bound to hit it sooner or later.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Well, in the case of Full Auto, think about it. It's the only one of the mini-nukes that is actually realistic in the way it works. Go out sometime with a fully automatic assault rifle and unload an entire clip....I bet you'll be standing in one spot for at least 5 seconds doing so.
The point of an Assault Rifle in the real world isn't to hit a single target, that's what sniper rifles are for. An assault rifle is intended to send a whole lot of bullets in someone's general direction at once. Accuracy by volume as it were, you shoot enough bullets at something you're bound to hit it sooner or later. |
Furthermore, if we really wanted to be realistic, we'd have made the Gatling guns as used by the various enemy factions fire with the speed and SOUND of actual rotary guns (which actually sound more like really loud table saws) and ported THAT over to Assault Rifle. It'd have been much more impressive than the slow rat-tat-tat more reminiscent of a Browning .50 cal.
*edit*
For reference:
Browning .50 Cal vs. The Dylan Minigun. Seriously, can we get Full Auto to either fire a LOT faster or at least sound like a cannon or at least heavy machinegun? The sound engineer did a marvellous job of ambient sounds, so can we get him to look at this mockery of automatic fire?
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That minigun is actually frickin sweet lol. Full auto like that would solve the animation issues plus would be a whole lot cooler.
The actual sounds for the browning .50 cal sounds a lot like the static guns already in game, such as the ones protecting the base in RWZ and Bloody Bay etc.
Never going to happen, but I'd just replace Beanbag with a ranged version of Follow Up and name it 'Draw a Bead'.
Hmm just thought of something that would technically make AR unique... instead of an aim power how about something similar to another old, well used mmorpg power such as 'Paint Target' ? Animation wise, you would fire something similar to a luminiscent paintball at your target, it would also be a good 'anti stealth' power, considering AR is usually teamed with Devices on blaster it would go with the stalker killer idea in PvP which is commonly how devices are used.
Instead of giving +damage boost, it gives a -res on the target instead for the whole team, which would help with single target damage and also give AR more usefulness in teams as well and make them godsends in PvP
Hmm just thought of something that would technically make AR unique... instead of an aim power how about something similar to another old, well used mmorpg power such as 'Paint Target' ? Animation wise, you would fire something similar to a luminiscent paintball at your target, it would also be a good 'anti stealth' power, considering AR is usually teamed with Devices on blaster it would go with the stalker killer idea in PvP which is commonly how devices are used.
Instead of giving +damage boost, it gives a -res on the target instead for the whole team, which would help with single target damage and also give AR more usefulness in teams as well and make them godsends in PvP |
Trust me, I've tried, and suffered.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Coming from the "it just bugs me" and "I just thought of this" department:
It's always rubbed me the wrong way that Burst is the weaker attack and Slug the stronger, just from an animation times perspective. Switching them around wouldn't buff the set in any noticeable way, but I thought I might as well throw it in as another general AR improvement.
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Except that wet haddock is more use in PvP than an AR Blaster.
Trust me, I've tried, and suffered. |
Just waiting for Dahjee to swear blind that AR and Traps is the best things to hit pvp since i13 lol....
Trying to argue realism on a gun that can fire low-calibre rounds, high-calibre rounds, shotgun shells, flamethrower fire, grenades, beanbags and eventually cryogenic bullets and rockets is a losing prospect just on its face.
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Burst: Short burst of .45 caliber rounds.
Slug: .410 shotgun slug
Buckshot: .410 buckshot
Sniper Rifle: Really well aimed single shot of .45 caliber.
Full Auto: Long burst of .45 caliber rounds
Grenades can be fired from an under-barrel mounted grenade launcher, and I suppose you could say the LRM is just a small rocket fired from the same mount. Beanbags can ALSO be fired from something like that. Explains Sleep Grenade as well.
The only things in the set the Military Assault Rifle model can't conceivably do in real life are Flamethrower and Ignite.
So....7 out of 9 powers explained in one gun model that actually exists in real life, and 2/3rds of Munitions Mastery (of the powers that use a gun)
Realism isn't that difficult with that set.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
While it's true that .45 bullets and .410 shells can fit in the same chamber, you'll note that the guns that have this feature are almost all revolvers or other manual-action weapons. This is because shotgun shells are notoriously bad at developing the gas pressure needed to operate the actions of semi-auto and automatic weapons, and their shape (long, square) and consistency (soft) make them prone to jamming. So, yeah, you could make an assault rifle chambered for .410 shell, and you could fill a magazine with .410 shells, but the weapon would be somewhat unreliable to say the least. It also doesn't help that .45 ACP is a low-velocity pistol round not really suited for long rifles (although the Thompson submachinegun was chambered for .45 ACP, so there's some historical precedent).
On the other hand, you're absolutely on the right track when it comes to the diversity of shotgun shells. As detailed in this article, shotgun shells include slugs, buckshot, less-lethal riot rounds, incendiaries, and even experimental grenade shells. If I were to try to build the CoH "assault rifle", I'd make a two-barrel gun, one barrel a 7.62mm automatic rifle (for snipe, burst and full auto), the other a 12-gauge shotgun (for everything else). Either that or a 7.62mm AR with an underslung 40mm grenade launcher - 40mm grenades have a similar diversity, and pack a hell of a lot more punch.
Yeah, I know I just threw up a bunch of realism all over a pretendy fun time game.
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While it's true that .45 bullets and .410 shells can fit in the same chamber, you'll note that the guns that have this feature are almost all revolvers or other manual-action weapons. This is because shotgun shells are notoriously bad at developing the gas pressure needed to operate the actions of semi-auto and automatic weapons, and their shape (long, square) and consistency (soft) make them prone to jamming. So, yeah, you could make an assault rifle chambered for .410 shell, and you could fill a magazine with .410 shells, but the weapon would be somewhat unreliable to say the least. It also doesn't help that .45 ACP is a low-velocity pistol round not really suited for long rifles (although the Thompson submachinegun was chambered for .45 ACP, so there's some historical precedent).
On the other hand, you're absolutely on the right track when it comes to the diversity of shotgun shells. As detailed in this article, shotgun shells include slugs, buckshot, less-lethal riot rounds, incendiaries, and even experimental grenade shells. If I were to try to build the CoH "assault rifle", I'd make a two-barrel gun, one barrel a 7.62mm automatic rifle (for snipe, burst and full auto), the other a 12-gauge shotgun (for everything else). Either that or a 7.62mm AR with an underslung 40mm grenade launcher - 40mm grenades have a similar diversity, and pack a hell of a lot more punch. Yeah, I know I just threw up a bunch of realism all over a pretendy fun time game. |
And on the .45 side of it, I never said the .45 had to be a .45 ACP round. If you can design an assault rifle that will chamber both .410 and .45, then designing a new variety of .45 shell for it shouldn't be much of a stretch.
I was just saying that it is theoretically possible to create an assault rifle capable of firing both rounds. It will likely never actually exist, because there isn't really any reason to make one. There is precedent for guns that will fire both, but no assault rifle currently exists that I'm aware of.
Besides....it's not like improbable weaponry never shows up in video games or anything
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
The only things in the set the Military Assault Rifle model can't conceivably do in real life are Flamethrower and Ignite. So....7 out of 9 powers explained in one gun model that actually exists in real life, and 2/3rds of Munitions Mastery (of the powers that use a gun) Realism isn't that difficult with that set. |
But really how can you talk about realism with weapons in the game when sniper range is 150 feet ? and the best anyone can hope to do is a 95% hit rate for a man sized target at that distance.
hey guys,
After playing assault rifle on 2 charecters now, one blaster and one corruptor, I cant help but feel assault rifle is underpowered compared to every other set.
The main reason people used to play this was the old ignite bug where you could stack it every couple of seconds for massive damage. Now however since the changes thats not really possible anymore. Combined with this theres a horribly long animation time for full auto which makes the power even questionable to take. Flamethrower isnt really substancial damage either and again, a long animation time. Beanbag is pretty much as it should be.
Combined with this the set has no form of aim power, and also has less accuracy and damage than archery. Compared with Dual Pistols, it has nowhere near the amount of utility the set offers with ammo changing, yet dual pistols also has 4 AoE/Cone based attacks as well and a defence buff on hail of bullets.
Compared with archery, Assualt rifle deals a lot less damage with a lot less accuracy. If i understand correctly, Assault rifle was originally meant to be a more AoE based set than archery which makes them different. However the way the set is even in a team situation its much more preferable to pick archery.
Dual pistols also has no aim power, but makes up for it with the amount of utility it offers such as -damage and +DoT effects and the ability to switch on the fly. Assault rifle doesnt have any such power yet also suffers from lower damage.
Why is this?
I blame long animation time, combined with lower damage output and no aim power. The sets biggest hitter, ignite is incredibly hard to use if you dont have an immob power slotted and is useless vs more than one mob. Whilst the power IS nice for tactical play, in reality it isnt very helpful in damage dealing.
My suggestion involves both/either of two things,
1) lower the animation times for powers such as full auto, flamethrower and ignite. This already would be a massive improvement despite damage, and would possibly play a bit like a claws version of ranged if done right.
2) Add an aim type power in exchange for Ignite, possibly something along the lines of 'change magazine' to add to the effect of using a rifle (although I cant really explain how this would add +tohit ). In addition to this combine the flame effect with flamethrower so you can deal instant damage with the flamethrower as well as leave an extended dot effect at the end of the cone. If this is done, full auto should possibly be changed places with this since its more of a tier 9 power and I think the recharge should be changed to fit with full autos time.
The powers that are currently fine and have no need to be changed are burst, slug, sniper rifle, buckshot, m30 grenade and beanbag. The remaining 3 powers (the last 3 powers) have some serious issues with them and should be looked into, both in pve and the pvp game (wont get started on pvp, since AR is pretty much a joke there ).