Mercenaries MMs Apparently Broken?

I understand how this could be very distressing for mercs and other ranged-based MM sets, but as a Necromancer, I am overjoyed that my Grave Knights won't stand around tossing dark bolts anymore while their swords rust away in their scabbards.

yes but that is a mastermind where you want tier 2s to go in and disembowel and head splitter your enemies. I this thread is about mastermind primaries that do things that are utterly retarded, because they are supposed place is range and 'not hugging the nearest boss'.

My best guess as to the source of this issue is that a tweaked version of the AI that was intended specifically for melee-oriented critters, such as demon pets, zombie pets, and various enemies, was accidentally applied across the board. Beside the observed behavior of AI critters, I have one other point of evidence for this interpretation: the crystal room in the Ice Mistral SF now lags like the hill in the ITF. I'm guessing this is because the immobile crystals are now all wasting processor time trying to figure out how to get in melee range with the players...

Okay, this is an annoying issue and needs to be addressed. I was fighting Statesman last night and no matter how many time I GOTOed my bots out of aoe range they would promptly run back into melee range. Not just my idiot protector bots, all of them.

There is no way I can team like this, with my bots running into melee range and chasing down every mob agging the whole map.

Someone needs to PM this thread to Castle pronto.

MM pets were always a little bit stupid, but it has gotten worse since i17 launched.

I hadn't played my MM in an eternity before this week, so I can't comment on henchman ai having changed (though I will say it's like herding cats trying to keep my robots out of melee), but I can vouch for almost every npc I've met (including rikti drones) trying to bumrush my brute. The only ones I can think of offhand that don't get too close are mook/marcone hitmen, who still run to extreme range and snipe.

It does suck you all having those problems. Me, I have tried ninjas twice before and hated em with a passion ... now, I LOVE EM! The Jounin were always stuck, hesitating, hangin' back, now they're homicidal MANIACS! "I'm armed, I'm dangerous, and I'm OFF my PROZAC!" While I do hope they fix the problem eventually, I really hope they don't declaw my Ninjas.

Three days ago I read this post and would have replied with "I don't know what you guys' problem is, my merc/storm has no issue staying at range..." but tonight after playing both mercs and thugs I have to admit there are some major issues with ranged AI.

Now, whether this is due to biased expectations, or even if this has always been the case, the fact still remains that ranged pets are now running into melee as soon as they don't have a ranged attack charged at the moment (this I tested by having my mercs attack and then calling them back at different intervals).

I'm off right now to see if Council Marksmen (who, iirc, *always* stay at range) are also charging head first, and then I'm /bug'ing this.

The really big problem here is that Goto and Stay have been pretty much destroyed with the new behaviors. When I play mm, especially a /traps MM, I count on Goto and Stay to set up ambushes and otherwise make enemies' lives a living hell. With the new issues, I can't do that.

Also, on the grave knights and bruisers hanging out at range: If one group of mobs is hanging out at range when they should be meleeing, I can deal with that. A quick goto command, and it's all solved. Or, better yet, maybe I want one grave knight blasting, and the other meleeing. In the old system, I could do that. Now? Everybody from the thugs to the lich charges into melee, and I have to constantly pull them back if I want to play tactically, it's a major headache to bring them all back under control.

How about this. Set up a switch for "ranged" or "melee" behavior in addition to the other sets. Would that be too much to ask?

I pmed Castle with a link to this thread. This is ridiculous.

I submitted it as a bug report.

Anything we can do to bring this to developer attention is good. It's a critical bug not just for MMs, but for the whole game in general as evidenced by drones and gunners and other enemy types that are dangerous at range and squishy in melee deciding they adore melee. I could easily see it becoming the next farming style, if someone can find a combination in AE of enemies that yield full XP and aren't much of a threat up close.

...although mostly I just want my L50 mercs MM to not be utterly useless so I can do Incarnate stuff with her.

I would like to see other macro options included, such as:

defensive/aggressive ranged/melee - choice between range or melee attacking
defensive/goto rooted - roots pet to current/targeted location no matter where the MM/targetted mob is
If MM is out of range then they resummon next to the MM but keep their current commands active - so they would stay rooted to the resummon point if it was commanded

And here I thought it was just me when I came back recently and I was having a ridiculously hard time controlling my bots. Was wondering why they were running all over the place. An easy temporary fix would be for them to make the stay command force the pets to stay at that position regardless of whether their target is in range or not.

I'm glad it's not just me - as a break from blue side I made a bots/traps MM this last weekend, and over the course of the last couple days I kept thinking to myself "I don't remember bots being this hard to control" and "I could have sworn they didn't used to die so fast". I had noticed they would run to melee regardless of goto commands, but I figured maybe I just hadn't set my macros up right or something. This really explains a lot.

I was going to say you were seeing things but thought I'd test first and glad I did. I have been playing on bg mode which is working as normal on my thugs, they are following me so they are in close range when they respond to attacks but they definately do not close to melee range. Yesterday when I tried stay/def I was completely shocked, they ran all the way down the corridors to attack and seemed to ignore the spot I placed them on until all foes were down. When I set to attack my target/def they sent in a volley and then 1 or 2 would close to melee until all of them were at melee range. So follow is normal the others are borked

I havent had any issues with my mercs/dark mm. They've only gone off the reservation when I've put them in aggressive mode (as they always do) or when the target they are attacking trys to run away. Maybe its because mostly I keep them on defensive follow?

Someone mentioned controller pets and I havent noticed any issues with my gravity or plant pets.
Is this something intermittent?

I have a theory regarding the perceived presence or absence of this problem. I'd appreciate if those posting to report seeing or not seeing this issue would provide the following information:

- Your difficulty settings
- Whether you have the tier 1 and tier 2 upgrades
- Any powers that add damage to pets or reduce enemy resistance

My guess is that those not seeing the issue are killing enemies before their pets run out of ranged attacks. Pets that have been upgraded tend to have more ranged attacks, and thus won't run out as quickly, and if the fight is short due to lower difficulty and more damage, pets may not have time to run out.

I have all the upgrades and usually take on mobs that are +1/6 person team, and my bots run into melee range after they have used their ranged attacks, even if I GOTO them to a spot or STAY them.

I pmed Castle this and he said they are investigating this with ranged mobs and now henchmen as well.

I haven't played either of my MMs (bots/dark and mercs/TA) much recently, but I think I'll wait before giving either of them another round until this is resolved. Cheers to those who've tested it and brought it to Castle's attention. (Did they give any kind of potential timeline on when it'll be looked into or resolved?)

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite