Sets: something I'm not quite understanding
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-05-06 07:38 in Player Questions
You mixed and matched incorrectly.
Any IO from a set of Resist Damage can be used
If not a set IO (SO, DO, TO, common IO) you can only use a Damage Resistance enhancer.
You can never use multiples of the same set IO in a power.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Each set will have a catagory in the description. It's not the buffs the individual IO's grants that set the restriction, but the set catagory. If you got one Titanium Coating: Resistance you should be able to slot the rest of the set in there too, but don't bother slotting any that won't affect the power.
Quote:
This can work out to your advantage. Mind Link (for Arachnos Widows), for instance, cannot directly be slotted with Recharge Reduction. It can, however, be slotted with both to-hit buff and defence-buff sets - sets which themselves have recharge reduction aspects to them. Slotting the set IOs with recharge reduction results in a recharge reduction to Mind Link. This is the essence of how perma-Mind Link builds are devised. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
You mixed and matched incorrectly.
Any IO from a set of Resist Damage can be used If not a set IO (SO, DO, TO, common IO) you can only use a Damage Resistance enhancer. |
Sometimes this doesn't work out, though. Melee attacks, for instance, ignore range enhancements no matter what, even if you can slot an IO set that affects range.
Just an additional note on slotting parts that don't affect the power. At 50, it takes just over 2 slots to hit the ED cap where you get really huge diminishing returns for putting in additional enhancements. So, if trying to max something out, it makes no sense to use more than 3 of one type - and most of the third one is wasted because it goes over the limit.
With a set, you could put in the pure resist, a resist/end, and a resist/recharge. For the sets with two different abilities, you get the equivalent of 75% effectiveness for each one, so 1+.75+.75 would give you the equivalent of 2.5 resist enhancements in the same three slots and end up losing less than 1 percent enhancement value because of ED.
Essentially, you are getting the same enhancement to the power for the same number of slots and then getting 2 set bonuses for free. Not a bad deal at all.
That's right. The category of the Set determines where it can be slotted, and that overrides the type of the individual Enhancements. So a Resistance/Recharge IO can be slotted in a power that doesn't take Recharge.
In this case, all it means is that only the Resistance portion of the IOs will have any effect. Any Recharge, Endurance, or other Enhancement bonuses they give you will simply be ignored by the Body Armor power. The IOs become just placeholders for the Set Bonus they would give you. (It is usually more effective to put those IOs in another power that will take that Enhancement type, if you have one)
HOs, that give two Enhancement types for each slot, work the same way. Note that in some cases you CAN slot a Power for an Enhancement type it shouldn't take, but this is a "loophole" in the code that the devs can't currently do anything about.
Quote:
If you did use 3 pure resist enhancements and bump it well up into ED territory, doesn't that help when hit with resistance debuffs? Granted, I'd rather have the extra set bonuses than resistance I can only use once in a blue moon, but not everyone may feel that way.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
With a set, you could put in the pure resist, a resist/end, and a resist/recharge. For the sets with two different abilities, you get the equivalent of 75% effectiveness for each one, so 1+.75+.75 would give you the equivalent of 2.5 resist enhancements in the same three slots and end up losing less than 1 percent enhancement value because of ED.
Essentially, you are getting the same enhancement to the power for the same number of slots and then getting 2 set bonuses for free. Not a bad deal at all. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
HOs, that give two Enhancement types for each slot, work the same way. Note that in some cases you CAN slot a Power for an Enhancement type it shouldn't take, but this is a "loophole" in the code that the devs can't currently do anything about.
|
To condense what they said, you could have just as much endurance reduction as resistance if you slotted Res/End from different sets.
[edited - same as a percentage of the cap.]
That said, Body Armor is auto. Unless you're going for bonuses stick with the Common-IOs or just SOs, as you're not going past 50 anytime soon.
Quote:
Unless I am really, really confused, then no, it doesn't. Pushing above the soft cap helps with debuffs, but ED is more like a hard cap than a soft cap. ED makes resist not go about X value for a power, while the soft cap lets it go as high as you want, but beyond Z it isn't useful.|
Originally Posted by Tyrrano
If you did use 3 pure resist enhancements and bump it well up into ED territory, doesn't that help when hit with resistance debuffs?
|
Quote:
| Perhaps they see it as 'working as intended' - figuring that you can get some recharge enhancement without really being able to get it near the ED-level. |
Quote:
ED has nothing to do with the resistance cap, which is a separate mechanic. ED makes resistance percentages decrease as the total percentage gets higher, just like all other enhancement percentages. ED affects all characters the same. The resistance cap makes it so that an archetype cannot get over X amount of resistance to a particular damage type, where X differs depending on archetype.
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
ED makes resist not go about X value for a power, while the soft cap lets it go as high as you want, but beyond Z it isn't useful.
|
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
Exactly. That's what I said.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
ED has nothing to do with the resistance cap, which is a separate mechanic.
|
I only mentioned the soft cap because that's what it sounded like Tyrrano was talking about when he mentioned debuff resist. I assumed he had confused the effects of ED for soft capping.
That's not what you said. You said "ED makes resist not go [about] (above?) X value for a power". That's not what ED does.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
OP said
Quote:
Someone probably said this and I missed it, but one of the things about Sets is that you can't slot the exact same IO twice in the same power. You can slot Titanium Coating: Resistance and Titanium Coating: Resistance/Recharge. You can slot Titanium Coating: Resistance and Aegis: Resistance. You can slot three powers, each with one Titanium Coating: Resistance . You can't slot Titanium Coating: Resistance x3 in the same power, though. (That's why the "6 of a kind" power is often extra good: because you can't slot ANYTHING else to make up for a set that's got a shortage of something you like. )
| To my thinking, this signifies that a pure Resistance piece from the Titanium Coating set should be usable multiple times on the power, since no other piece from the set would qualify, as only Damage Resistance is allowed. However, I cannot slot a second Titanium Coating: Resistance. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Actually, that is exactly what ED does. If a power has base resist 20, then ED caps it at about 20*1.56. Yes, you can push it up by a percent or two, but the returns drop off so dramatically after the cap, that for all practical purposes it's a hard limit on what you can get from any particular power.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
That's not what you said. You said "ED makes resist not go [about] (above?) X value for a power". That's not what ED does.
|
base*2ish for schedule A
base*1.56ish for schedule B
So in terms of the post I was responding to, going over ED provides a negligible benefit no matter the circumstances. It helps very slightly to offer a buffer to offset debuffs if you are over the cap, but it provides that exact same help even if you are not getting debuffed or not over the cap.
Now, had the poster I was responding to instead said that going over ED provides a buffer when you exemplar down - allowing you to remain near the ED cap, he would have been correct, but it does not interact with debuffs in the same way it does with exemplaring.
Quote:
Other than that bare percent or two that slotting over the ED softcap gives you, over-slotting doesn't really protect against debuffs.
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
Actually, that is exactly what ED does. If a power has base resist 20, then ED caps it at about 20*1.56. Yes, you can push it up by a percent or two, but the returns drop off so dramatically after the cap, that for all practical purposes it's a hard limit on what you can get from any particular power.
base*2ish for schedule A base*1.56ish for schedule B So in terms of the post I was responding to, going over ED provides a negligible benefit no matter the circumstances. It helps very slightly to offer a buffer to offset debuffs if you are over the cap, but it provides that exact same help even if you are not getting debuffed or not over the cap. Now, had the poster I was responding to instead said that going over ED provides a buffer when you exemplar down - allowing you to remain near the ED cap, he would have been correct, but it does not interact with debuffs in the same way it does with exemplaring. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Thank you all for the answers! I've read every one, although I've been reading them much too late and sent my head spinning. However, I slowed down, sounded out words, colored in some pictures, and I think I have the gist of it. Prostagulous may have summed it best for my tired brain:
Quote:
So, rewording everything to make certain I understand:|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
To condense what they said, you could have just as much endurance reduction as resistance if you slotted Res/End from different sets.
[edited - same as a percentage of the cap.] That said, Body Armor is auto. Unless you're going for bonuses stick with the Common-IOs or just SOs, as you're not going past 50 anytime soon. |
In my given situation: Body Armor, which is an auto power, with only one type of slotting, Damage Resistance, and with 3 slots that I've place in it, I am given a choice regarding any enhancement greater than SO's. I can either:
A) use standard IO's in all three slots going for maximum pure damage resistance
B) slot with set IO's getting whatever damage resistance benefit they offer, losing the other effects, since they're not part of Body Armor, but gaining the set bonuses.
C) slot with Hami-O's, which may provide greater damage resistance than 3 standard IO's, but lose the secondary effects.
Is that close to accurate?
Quote:
Yes, more than close.
|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
In my given situation: Body Armor, which is an auto power, with only one type of slotting, Damage Resistance, and with 3 slots that I've place in it, I am given a choice regarding any enhancement greater than SO's. I can either:
A) use standard IO's in all three slots going for maximum pure damage resistance B) slot with set IO's getting whatever damage resistance benefit they offer, losing the other effects, since they're not part of Body Armor, but gaining the set bonuses. C) slot with Hami-O's, which may provide greater damage resistance than 3 standard IO's, but lose the secondary effects. Is that close to accurate? |
Quote:
Hence us of terms like "negligible" and "very slightly".
|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Other than that bare percent or two that slotting over the ED softcap gives you, over-slotting doesn't really protect against debuffs.
|
I've done very little with enhancement sets so far. Mostly I just do the non-set level 50 IO's and move on to the next character I'm advancing.
I'm tinkering with sets this time though. Ran into something I don't quite understand. I have a character with Munitions Mastery - Body Armor. The power states that only one type of allowed enhancement can be used: Enhance Damage Resistance. It also states that there's only one allowed enhancement set category: Resist Damage.
To my thinking, this signifies that a pure Resistance piece from the Titanium Coating set should be usable multiple times on the power, since no other piece from the set would qualify, as only Damage Resistance is allowed. However, I cannot slot a second Titanium Coating: Resistance.
What gives? Why have a enhancement set category if you cannot create a set? I realize I must be missing some vital info, so what is it?