Something that some games do to make melee viable is add a weak attack that charges you directly at targets. This would be a great addition to the Teleportation pool.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Only so long as the animation consists of disappearing from one point and reappearing next to the intended target. From what I have been told the game system does not allow for a charging animation to cross the intervening space.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Something that some games do to make melee viable is add a weak attack that charges you directly at targets. This would be a great addition to the Teleportation pool.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
That's exactly what I am getting at, a Nightcrawler charge.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Well, that's what Shield Charge and Lightning Rod do |
Originally Posted by McBoo
Only so long as the animation consists of disappearing from one point and reappearing next to the intended target. From what I have been told the game system does not allow for a charging animation to cross the intervening space.
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And I'm okay with that. I'd just like to see these options for more
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Space Time melee?
Sign me up. I'd love to see a whole set that was based on teleporting and/or colocation attacks.
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I would like to see something like that added to the Teleport pool but I think that Recall Friend and Teleport Foe have far too much utility for either one of them to be replaced. You could possibly replace Team Teleport with some sort of teleporting attack but I think that the damage would have to be fairly impressive if you have to wait until level 20 to get the attack.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, that's what Shield Charge and Lightning Rod do
And I'm okay with that. I'd just like to see these options for more |
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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AoE Nuke where you bamf around a few times punching?
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Originally Posted by McBoo
I would like to see something like that added to the Teleport pool but I think that Recall Friend and Teleport Foe have far too much utility for either one of them to be replaced. You could possibly replace Team Teleport with some sort of teleporting attack but I think that the damage would have to be fairly impressive if you have to wait until level 20 to get the attack.
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Hmmm, multiple teleports could be self defeating. Animation times plus possible lag issues could be stumbling blocks. I like the idea of a single target attack that is a big upper cut or a flip kick (possible power customization options) that does fairly decent damage with a reliable knockdown secondary effect. |
Originally Posted by Substrate
AoE Nuke where you bamf around a few times punching?
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
This is just something I threw together, but I would LOVE to see a set that incorporated teleportation as a whole. I know the biggest challenge is teleporting TO a foe, which is why the current teleport-attacks are location-based. Still... it'd be a lot of fun.
1. Gravity Slam - You teleport a foe straight up in the air, disorienting them and causing them to receive damage from the fall. (Melee, Moderate Smashing Dmg, Disorient, Recharge:Fast)
2. Two-Heeled Surprise - Using a quick teleport, you slam feet-first into your opponent and teleport again to safety. (Melee, Heavy Smashing/Lethal Dmg, Recharge: Moderate)
3. Tele-Pulse - You create a miniature wormhole, causing foes in a very small area to be violently teleported away from you. (AoE{tiny}, Moderate Smashing Dmg, Recharge: Moderate)
4. Micro Jump - With a quick jump out of and into existence in the same location, you create a quick pop of air that can knockdown and disorient nearby foes. (PbAoE Disorient, Knockdown, Moderate Smashing/Lethal Damage, Recharge: Long)
5. Spacial Awareness - By concentrating fully on your abilities, you greatly increase the range of your teleportation attacks, as well as moderately increasing your radius and damage. (Recharge: Long)
6. Tele-Taunt - You pop quickly into and then out of range of your foes, taunting them to follow you. (Taunt, Recharge: Moderate)
7. Aerial Assault - You teleport with an enemy into the air, delivering a painful series of attacks before slamming him to the ground. (Special, Extreme Smashing Damage, Recharge: Very Long)
8. Deceptive Strikes - Delivering swift, minor attacks in rapid succession amongst a group of foes, you can create a field of confusion that will cause your enemies to strike each other in an attempt to land a hit on you. (PBAoE Minor Lethal Damage, Confuse, Recharge: Long)
9. Mass Teleport - Using every ounce of your strength, you teleport yourself and your surrounding foes to a new location, creating a massive shockwave when you reappear, throwing aside all nearby foes. For every foe that is teleported with you, the damage of the shockwave is increased. The teleport will leave you drained of most of your endurance.
I would SO use that power set. Make it so, Castle!
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Originally Posted by Genesis Man
This is just something I threw together, but I would LOVE to see a set that incorporated teleportation as a whole. I know the biggest challenge is teleporting TO a foe, which is why the current teleport-attacks are location-based. Still... it'd be a lot of fun.
1. Gravity Slam - You teleport a foe straight up in the air, disorienting them and causing them to receive damage from the fall. (Melee, Moderate Smashing Dmg, Disorient, Recharge:Fast) 2. Two-Heeled Surprise - Using a quick teleport, you slam feet-first into your opponent and teleport again to safety. (Melee, Heavy Smashing/Lethal Dmg, Recharge: Moderate) 3. Tele-Pulse - You create a miniature wormhole, causing foes in a very small area to be violently teleported away from you. (AoE{tiny}, Moderate Smashing Dmg, Recharge: Moderate) 4. Micro Jump - With a quick jump out of and into existence in the same location, you create a quick pop of air that can knockdown and disorient nearby foes. (PbAoE Disorient, Knockdown, Moderate Smashing/Lethal Damage, Recharge: Long) 5. Spacial Awareness - By concentrating fully on your abilities, you greatly increase the range of your teleportation attacks, as well as moderately increasing your radius and damage. (Recharge: Long) 6. Tele-Taunt - You pop quickly into and then out of range of your foes, taunting them to follow you. (Taunt, Recharge: Moderate) 7. Aerial Assault - You teleport with an enemy into the air, delivering a painful series of attacks before slamming him to the ground. (Special, Extreme Smashing Damage, Recharge: Very Long) 8. Deceptive Strikes - Delivering swift, minor attacks in rapid succession amongst a group of foes, you can create a field of confusion that will cause your enemies to strike each other in an attempt to land a hit on you. (PBAoE Minor Lethal Damage, Confuse, Recharge: Long) 9. Mass Teleport - Using every ounce of your strength, you teleport yourself and your surrounding foes to a new location, creating a massive shockwave when you reappear, throwing aside all nearby foes. For every foe that is teleported with you, the damage of the shockwave is increased. The teleport will leave you drained of most of your endurance. |
This please.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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For a while now I have felt that heroes and villains should get an Epic inherent like Lightning Rod or Shield Charge.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
We need more of them!
They're just that fun to use! I was a bit suprised (and disappointed) that when a 5th power in the epics was introduced that none of the electricity/mu epics gave Lightning Rod for instance. And some single target oriented teleporting attacks would be pretty awesome as well! |
Possibly with a KB and low chance for a low mag stun and dealing only moderate damage with a long recharge and a shorter range.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Personally I've always thought that if power/travel pools were to get a 5th power, then Super Speed should get a single target Shield Charge as if you bullrushed your enemy at top speed. High ST damage, teleports you to them, 50% chance for knockdown and a minor self damage.. Infact, thinking about it, all the travel pools could have a Shield Charge/Lightning Rod-esque attack, which could of course be utilised by Melee oriented chars for quicker access into a fight or low damage ATs for an additional attack..
Super speed and Teleport are accounted for (take your pick at the powers in this thread, I think they're all great and viable), with Fly it could just be a short supersonic jump forward, with a 50% chance for knockback and 50% for stun. Super Jump? Leap into the air like the Ninja Leap costume change emote then land next to your for, small PBAoE ala Thunder Strike, only your target takes damage but it has a chance for knockdown for all around you. Give each power a reasonable recharge (20-30 seconds?) and end use (12-18?) and I think it'd make a great addition.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
When thinking about a teleportation melee pool, you need to remember the things the game CAN'T do with teleportation. They are:
Teleport + Single-target attack. Teleportation requires using a reticle and consists of a single power targeted at that reticle. Furthermore, this power does no damage, but rather spawns a pet that does damage after you show up.
Teleport + Cone attack along your path. Castle tried to get that to work with Shield Melee and there were a series of problems with it.
Do multiple teleports. One reticle, one teleport. You can't teleport to target, so you can't teleport to multiple targets.
Basically, all you can do in terms of teleporting attacks is what both Lightning Rod and Shield Charge do - appear and do AoE damage centred around yourself. That's it. You can't tele-punch ONE target, you can't hop between multiple targets and punch them all. The powers engine doesn't support it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Really? Man, what a buzzkill.
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I'm not really sure why that is, but yeah. Doesn't seem like a power can do a teleport, THEN an attack, which is why the current teleport attacks do this with a fudge - a teleport and a summon at the same time, with the invisible "pseudopet" attacking as you're in the process of teleporting. Just like you can't attack two separate targets with the same single-target attack, so you can't Teleport AND attack, yourself.
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Originally Posted by flashrains
Really? Man, what a buzzkill.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually, there is a way to make it so you can do a Teleport-single-target attack, but it would be sloppy: Limit the number of targets in the classic AoE Teleport attack to 1.
Chances are you'll never hit your intended target in a crowd, but it could work, sorta.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm not really sure why that is, but yeah. Doesn't seem like a power can do a teleport, THEN an attack, which is why the current teleport attacks do this with a fudge - a teleport and a summon at the same time, with the invisible "pseudopet" attacking as you're in the process of teleporting. Just like you can't attack two separate targets with the same single-target attack, so you can't Teleport AND attack, yourself.
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Drat! Ah well, just add a spin kick or leg sweep animation to the end of the teleport, lower the damage a bit and add an unavoidable KD effect.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Come on! You mean to say that you cant create a power that starts with you beginning the attack animation and an invisible pet that completes it closer to then target?
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Actually, I had those limitations in mind when thinking up the set. I don't know that my "solutions" are actually viable, but here were my thoughts on what the powers would actually DO.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When thinking about a teleportation melee pool, you need to remember the things the game CAN'T do with teleportation. They are:
Teleport + Single-target attack. Teleportation requires using a reticle and consists of a single power targeted at that reticle. Furthermore, this power does no damage, but rather spawns a pet that does damage after you show up. Teleport + Cone attack along your path. Castle tried to get that to work with Shield Melee and there were a series of problems with it. Do multiple teleports. One reticle, one teleport. You can't teleport to target, so you can't teleport to multiple targets. Basically, all you can do in terms of teleporting attacks is what both Lightning Rod and Shield Charge do - appear and do AoE damage centred around yourself. That's it. You can't tele-punch ONE target, you can't hop between multiple targets and punch them all. The powers engine doesn't support it. |
1. Gravity Slam - This is Lift/Levitate with a different animation. Not as exciting when viewed that way, but there it is.
2. Two-Heeled Surprise - This is basically just a complicated animation like Jump Kick or the over-top-kick in the MA set (don't recall the power name). The key here is that the teleportation is part of the animation, but doesn't involve actually moving the player (it's a melee-range attack after all).
3. Tele-Pulse - This IS Wormhole, but with a MUCH shorter range and smaller radius.
4. Micro Jump - Again, this is akin to Handclap/Thunderclap, but... with KD and minimal damage (as the other powers should be
)5. Spacial Awareness - This is a little unique to a melee set, but it would basically turn melee attacks (7 feet) to VERY short-ranged attacks (~14 or so?) and increase AoE radii slightly.
6. Tele-Taunt - This would be an animation-movement only. In other words, the character would appear to teleport to the location of the Taunt, but would simply be "invisible" during the root time. Is this something doable with the current engine? No idea.
7. Aerial Assault - This one is probably the "only" tricky one, as it involves a "tandem" port between foe and player. Is it possible to have both an NPC and player "locked" in an animation together? I can't think of any precedent in the game, so I'm going to hazard a guess that this might be outside the realm of possibility... but I added it as a "wishlist" item.
8. Deceptive Strikes - Ah yes, multi-ports... This is again effectively all "perceived" teleports. This would simply be a PBAoE power where the player would APPEAR to teleport in an area in rapid succession.
9. Mass Teleport - This is, effectively a combined power of Wormhole and Lightning Rod/Shield Charge. The trick here, more likely than not, would be using the foes teleported to up the damage of the pseudo-pet... but the rest of the power should be feasible.
Obviously, I'm not expecting this set to get picked up and implemented, even if it's as "simple" as I make it sound... but it seems like a set like this would be possible. Obviously there would be quite a few animation tricks needed, but... not completely unreasonable?
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Sands of Mu |
Originally Posted by Genesis Man
7. Aerial Assault - This one is probably the "only" tricky one, as it involves a "tandem" port between foe and player. Is it possible to have both an NPC and player "locked" in an animation together? I can't think of any precedent in the game, so I'm going to hazard a guess that this might be outside the realm of possibility... but I added it as a "wishlist" item.
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Player makes the fists animation while the enemy makes a being-pummeled animation.
I was thinking of the Sands of Mu/Flurry/Shadow Maul power originally as well, but I don't think the hit effects are ALWAYS locked in... I know I can think of several instances where the NPC continues running, gets KB'd before the animation completes, etc... and while it looks odd in this situation it would look VERY wrong if only the player were locked in this particular animation (at least as I'm picturing it). Perhaps if the KD at the end was guaranteed to animate no matter what... I don't know, I'm probably overthinking it.
I was also thinking of the Soul Storm hold for this, where the NPC is DEFINITELY locked in an animation AND is apparently moved (floating) during the entire sequence. Granted, the player isn't locked into the same animation, but this seems like a possible portion of the solution... but again I'm not familiar enough with what the animation system can handle to say that this is even possible.
A while back I had actually suggested an "Epic" archetype with eight linked powersets...
Each set had a primary and secondary linked to it, the Archetype itself had Scrapper level melee damage, blaster ranged damage, scrapper level defenses, controller-level holds, etc... But had few control effects, and few ranged attacks.
Basically both sets were based on a travel power. Flight primary and secondary, teleport primary and secondary, etc.
And they never would have worked before the implementation of Teleporting PBAoE attacks. One of these days I'll have to remake the whole thing!
-Rachel-
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True Teleport does use a reticle but that does not mean new powers added to the pool would also be forced to use the same thing. An attack that 'rapidly teleports' a target to stun/confused/damage does not actually have to use the teleport system other FX can be used to get the same visible effect. Like Sands of Mu does not really make you punch ungodly fast you punch quickly but 'shadow' fxs give you extra ghosted arms to appear like your are punching like crazy. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When thinking about a teleportation melee pool, you need to remember the things the game CAN'T do with teleportation. They are:
Teleport + Single-target attack. Teleportation requires using a reticle and consists of a single power targeted at that reticle. Furthermore, this power does no damage, but rather spawns a pet that does damage after you show up. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Teleport + Cone attack along your path. Castle tried to get that to work with Shield Melee and there were a series of problems with it.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Do multiple teleports. One reticle, one teleport. You can't teleport to target, so you can't teleport to multiple targets.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Basically, all you can do in terms of teleporting attacks is what both Lightning Rod and Shield Charge do - appear and do AoE damage centred around yourself. That's it. You can't tele-punch ONE target, you can't hop between multiple targets and punch them all. The powers engine doesn't support it.
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We need more of them!
They're just that fun to use!
I was a bit suprised (and disappointed) that when a 5th power in the epics was introduced that none of the electricity/mu epics gave Lightning Rod for instance.
And some single target oriented teleporting attacks would be pretty awesome as well!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection